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Offering .com domain to an established ccTLD domain? Good or bad move?

Located in General Domain Discussion, started by Fuadiansyah, Dec 17, 2016

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  1. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    What is the chance to succesfuly sell .com domain to an established company who currently has ccTLD domain such as co.uk? Or is this UDRP dangerous move?

    Story behind this, I've found expiring domain on GoDaddy Expired Auction that has exact word .com of an established retail company in my country. Their current domain is co.id. After checking WIPO for trademark, their date of registration of TM is 2010, where the .com domain registered in 2001.

    If I intend to acquired this domain and offered to them, is this a good or UDRP dangerous move?
     
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  2. todaygold

    todaygold Top Contributor VIP

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    I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like a dangerous move. You would be acquiring the domain after they filed a trademark (even though it was registered by another owner before) for the sole purpose of offering it to the trademark holder for sale. Without knowing the exact name, it may be difficult to say for sure, but to me, it sounds like you could easily lose a UDRP.
     
  3. usernamex

    usernamex Top Contributor VIP

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    Just because the com would retain the 2001 registration, they could prove that YOU only acquired it after knowing of their TM, so I agree with @todaygold - dangerous move.

    Is the GD Auction down to Closeouts yet? Or still in auction and are there any bids yet? I don't think it would be worth pursuing either way, but you stand to lose more if you chase it in auction. Also I would take a look at archive https://web.archive.org/web/*/ and http://www.hosterstats.com/historicaldns.php?domain= *fill in domain here*, it might have already been through UDRP and dropped for that reason.

    Be careful not to get pulled in if you see other bidders, they might be totally ignorant of the TM issue as well.
     
  4. draco

    draco Upgraded Member Blue Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Is it a dictionary word or a made up word? Any other trademarks for the word? If it's a dictionary word with other definitions and/or trademarks, I think you would have a much better chance than if it's a made up word only trademarked to them. For example, Apple and Microsoft.
     
  5. HKIBC

    HKIBC Account Closed (Disallowed)

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    Starting this thread was the bad move, IMO.
     
  6. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    Why? I don't spoil any specific name...
    It can also be a lesson or advice if there is someone who have similar plan....
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  7. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    A little more backstory, I've seen someone here on NP successfuly sold a name to american corporate and he/she said the reason he/she bought the domain in the first place is because the domain reg is behind the corporate reg date. May she/he's just lucky not to get UDRP...
     
  8. UXela

    UXela Account Closed

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    It depends how much you intend to sell it for.
    Usually if it's less than ~ $2000 (the initial cost for an UDRP) they might choose to buy your domain instead of the UDRP.

    I sold a few domains to owners of the same domain in another ccTLD. The thing is I really did not know about the existence of the local TM until after they approached me and most never even mentioned the TM. I told the few who mentioned TM issues to "do what you have to do, you're not getting this for free" and I made sure they understand I meant it. For most I found out about the TM by doing my own digging about the person the offer came from (yes, you should do that to find out who you're talking to).

    However:
    • I never buy with the clear intention of selling to a TM holder (that's stupid - "pardon my French");
    • I never buy names that have only 1 potential customer (specific made up words with potential TM);
    • I always use my own landing pages - no ad serving, no profit making just by visiting the site [ example: http://www.fly.al ];
    • I don't like cybersquatting;
    • I rarely send outbound mails offering my domain names for sale.
    Hope it helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  9. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Could the name be used by other companies ? Names that have only one 'obvious' end user usually aren't great names.
     
  10. Cdomains

    Cdomains Top Contributor VIP

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    There are so many other choices of names to reg.

    Don't knowingly reg a TM name.

    It is not worth the trouble.

    Why do this?

    Find a better name without a TM problem.

    I have found names like this with just a single end user company and emailed the company to tell them about it.

    They were appreciative and it felt good to do this instead of holding the name for ransom just to make a few $.
     
  11. Cdomains

    Cdomains Top Contributor VIP

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    I have to say, I still accidentally reg possible TM names.

    I always try to thoroughly check out names before buying.

    But sometimes you see a name and get excited and reg it right away without thinking.

    Many times this will happen and then I think - why did I do that again without checking!

    Even though I have a process I use to check names I still do this sometimes.

    It just happens.

    I guess we are only human - right.
     
  12. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    As someone said to me:
    Maybe he is right in someway...
     
  13. dexdn

    dexdn dudedn.com VIP Gold Account

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    If I see some ccTLD is taken and .COM is free I will reg. that name immediately. I do that all the time. Few min. ago I reg. one great name, ccTLD taken and developed, nice startup with big potential and .COM was free. If they want to think big in the future they will need .COM :) ccTLD is connected to one specific country and TM is only for that country :) but .COM is open for whole World. If the .COM is TM than I don't buy ccTLDs becouse he is probably worldwide protected.
     
  14. dexdn

    dexdn dudedn.com VIP Gold Account

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    This make no difference, important is - who is first :) who protected name first.
     
  15. Cdomains

    Cdomains Top Contributor VIP

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    In many countries companies who do business locally will generally go with the cctld of their country.

    Usually only companies who do business worldwide will be interested in a dot com.

    In the US this is not true.

    Most US companies will want the dot com over dot us.
     
  16. dexdn

    dexdn dudedn.com VIP Gold Account

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    Yup, but that is USA :)
    Because of USA .com is a King :)
     
  17. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    It might be because .us is more like "us" and it caused bit of confusion on the first impression. I wonder why it's not .usa instead they use .us
     
  18. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    So, now you have the .COM. What will you do with the name? Just wait for them to approach you after they start to think about doing business more globally or try to approach and reach for them?
     
  19. RegBoss

    RegBoss Established Member

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    I would stay away from it. Even though the domain was registered first, the company has a business presence. I think a judge would hand it over to them. Nothing had been done with the .com for any web or business profile.
     
  20. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There are no absolutes, people like to speak in them because it makes them feel good and or safe.

    If the name is CoconutWater.com and you see CoconutWater.co.id in your country of Indonesia being advertised, well there are a few outcomes.

    You don't have to worry going in that you are acting in bad faith, you have a generic name that is a real thing, plenty of other extensions and businesses might be using this keyword combination. You contacted the co.id owner first because they are in the same country as you.

    They could buy it from you or simply decline because they don't plan on expanding outside of Indonesia.

    If the name of the company is Ragozozo.co.id well that's a different story, more than likely you have registered that name in bad faith, it is an invented name with no generic meaning, you registered it or purchased on GoDaddy auctions simply because of the co.id company.

    If you price it at $500 to $1,000 looking for a quick score, knowing full well no one else on this planet of 7 billion wants the domain name. Maybe they buy it, it's cheaper than a UDRP.

    They don't need it and politely tell you no thank you.

    You piss them off and they file a UDRP or worse file under the ACPA seeking $100,000 just to make an example out of you.

    The truth is, you don't know what someone will do. The second truth is that you don't know what an arbitrator will do, most in the second example will look at you as a bad faith actor.

    I believe if you feel you must pitch it, then you pitch it for a very reasonable price, $500 and look at it as found money.

    The registration date means little in a UDRP, arbitrators look at when you acquired it. The days of "Pay me because your tm is in 2010 but this name was registered in 1999, even though I acquired it in 2014." are over.

    Again IMO
     
  21. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    So, it's too much gambling here in this case and gambling need much much luck...
    And gambling also prohibited in my religious faith. So ya, it's better to leave it than execute it...
     
  22. HKIBC

    HKIBC Account Closed (Disallowed)

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    Given such an orthodox interpretation of the principle, perhaps you should reconsider domaining, or any other business venture for that matter. Any business is a big gamble. Good thing, too, otherwise everyone would be a business owner, with nobody left over to employ :xf.wink:

    Back on topic...
    Sure. Except for not too many UDRP complaints - should it come to that - initiated by .co.id domain holders, who might or might not employ a good lawyer. Right or wrong, discretion is paramount when contemplating sailing close to the wind, that's all :sneaky:
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  23. Fuadiansyah

    Fuadiansyah Established Member

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    As long as the "gambling" has benefit to other people such as doing a kosher business, it's OK, include domaining. In domaining we give idea and help people choose the brand for their business somehow, which is good.
    In case of this UDRP matter, I think it's more like gambling in narrower term with "pure-luck" such as poker or casino which is the prohibited one.

    OK back to topic. Honestly, I rarely heard any case regarding UDRP in my country. Local company is just like don't give any concern about domaining. I also doubt any lawyer here have any knowledge about domaining.

    The only one case that I know is BMW case which is global company. Someone here just acquired BMW.id, it's the abbreviation of his name, Benny Muliawan Wahyudi. He use that domain just for emailing purpose and BMW filed claim against him....
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  24. dexdn

    dexdn dudedn.com VIP Gold Account

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    Nope, I will wait. When they come to me (if) they are mine. :)
     
  25. dexdn

    dexdn dudedn.com VIP Gold Account

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    Many domainers get this thing about TM wrong. It is not that scary :)
    Every "old Domainer" will go for .COM if ccTLD or nGTLD is taken and protected, this is not a gambling - this is business :)
    There is 2 kind of Domainers - flippers and investors. If you are Domain investor than you invest in bunch domains and wait, wait.... thats why we are Domain investors :)
     

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