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discuss .O Discussion

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Managed by independent members of the community OpenNIC
Any opinion
Right now are for reg. at Epik.com
I don't know if other registrar ofer for registration .O
Notice also already few of them sold on Namepros
Any idea how to be setup on/for VPN to add content ?
Personal i reg. few among them: Mexic.o, Tatto.o , Cong.o , Audi.o , Radi.o , SanFrancisc.o &
Toky.o - for 2021 :xf.wink:
Show here your registration & your opinion or any info


Kind regards,
Ovi
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Hi folks, I wanted to jump in and clear up some misconceptions about OpenNIC that I've been reading in this thread. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask!

First off, to reiterate what has already been stated, domains from OpenNIC are NOT the same as domains from Epik. While we have had many discussions over the years about running OpenNIC more like a business it always falters because we will not charge for our domains (and as was already mentioned, alt-root domains have exactly zero monetary value and we aim to keep it that way). In general, OpenNIC has always been a learning project, where people come to understand the nuts&bolts of what makes the internet function. It gives everyone a chance to see how the various levels of DNS zones interoperate. More recently we have also gained a following of members who connect under ISPs with intentionally-broken DNS services that do not properly reply with NXDOMAIN or other errors (generally because the ISP uses mis-typed domains for their own monetary gain).

Using an alt-root does not require any sort of plugins or other software installations. You simply enter a couple of our DNS server IPs into your network setup and you are done. There may be some browser plugins available that let you access alt-roots without modifying your network setup, but that seems like the more difficult way to achieve the goal.

I've been with OpenNIC since 2002, and I think maybe I remember the issue with the .biz TLD conflicting with ICANN? That's ancient history though, and as a rule we now try to make sure we never have conflicting domains. When new TLDs are suggested, we do our research to make sure it's not something ICANN is considering or that another alt-root is already using. There was also mention of the fact that reg.for.free no longer resolves for registering OpenNIC domains -- which is because ICANN started using .free and we had to shut down ours. The .libre TLD was formed and all existing domains were moved to that one, again to avoid conflicts with the ICANN root zone. (The domain be.libre has taken the place of reg.for.free.) We do our best to ensure that our DNS servers always return legitimate information and follow the expected standards.

Another comment suggested that OpenNIC zones are not decentralized. We currently have 76 public DNS servers in 22 countries, all of which can resolve any of our TLDs and domains, and which also have pointers to the DNS servers of other alt-roots we peer with. Yes it is true that registrations are typically handled by individual servers, but in the case of the .o zone which is being discussed that registration takes place through github.

If anyone has an interest in the OpenNIC project, please see our website at opennic.org.
 
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Managed by independent members of the community OpenNIC
Any opinion
Right now are for reg. at Epik.com
I don't know if other registrar ofer for registration .O
Notice also already few of them sold on Namepros
Any idea how to be setup on/for VPN to add content ?
Personal i reg. few among them: Mexic.o, Tatto.o , Cong.o , Audi.o , Radi.o , SanFrancisc.o &
Toky.o - for 2021 :xf.wink:
Show here your registration & your opinion or any info


Kind regards,
Ovi
As a country manager at Epik, it's your responsibility to clarify instead of asking the questions.
Right now are for reg. at Epik.com
That's okay but Epik does not say it's not a normal domain http://archive.is/sgdnv which can be called misleading in plain terms.
I don't know if other registrar ofer for registration .O
You should explain why other registrars are not offering the registration of .O (sic) and what made Epik to be the cheerleader.
Notice also already few of them sold on Namepros
Yes, saw a few listed in namepros, no comments on this.
Any idea how to be setup on/for VPN to add content ?
doesn't it sound funny, the guy propagating something is asking community members how to use it?
Personal i reg. few among them: Mexic.o, Tatto.o , Cong.o , Audi.o , Radi.o , SanFrancisc.o &
Toky.o - for 2021 :xf.wink:
The names you registered are well beyond good if it works like normal domains.
Show here your registration & your opinion or any info
No, till now I am not convinced and hence not registered any.
My opinion is, stop calling anyone a troll if they ask questions.
 
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I registered a handful of .geek domains at Epik. When I registered them, I didn't notice that the .geek domains were different.

After getting some feedback here on NP, I did some research and learned how they work. I still like the .geek domains I registered, however...

One of the names I got was 8.geek. After researching myself, I realized that .geek domains must be 3 characters minimum.

I reached out to Epik. They requested I provide the rule that said that. I simply copied and pasted right from the opennic rules page for .geek.

Took a day or two, but here is the reply I received from Epik about 8.geek:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello David,

8.geek has now been deleted and a full refund has been issued to your ISC.

If you have any other questions please do let me know by replying back to this email.

Have a great day :)


Best Regards,
Nelson

Epik LLC
PO Box 742
Bellevue, WA 98009, USA

Email: [email protected]
Website: www.epik.com
Tel: 425-366-8810
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, be careful of what you are registering. I think Epik is still working on learning these domains. They didn't know about a basic rule. This needs to improve some. A registrar should know about clear violations of an extension they are selling.
 
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I mean you had Epik - the company which you're here representing - in huge bold text before editing it, you seem to know a thing or two about this extension including past sales history but you conveniently don't know if it can be registered anywhere else? Then when asked why it's a good extension, you get defensive and weird about it and ignore the question altogether.

Gosh, just be honest and upfront with your intentions, that's all we want, to not be treated like morons. It's okay to advertise, it just looks really awkward when you pretend that's not what you're doing.

"Hey guys, the company I work for, as far as I know, is the only place to get this extension. Here's the official discussion for it! It's already had sales here at NP! I'm buying up names in this extension, too! Totally not promoting tho, how dare you accuse me of that!"
 
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I believe that when alternate space (i.e. non directly resolvable) names are put for sale on NamePros or on other platforms like NameLiquidate, where I have seen a few listed, their should be some clear warning that they are alternative domain space names, like the main marketplaces do with IDN, for example.

Hi

I concur with Bob and feel registrar should have had notice in place, prior to launching.

Also agree that NP should require such sales threads to include information about ALT domains.

imo...
 
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so it would depend on which dns server ip?
That is correct. If you point your DNS to an OpenNIC server, you get OpenNIC's zone of .geek domains. If you point your DNS to an Epik server, then you get Epik's zone of .geek domains.

This is the whole reason that domains have value to begin with. DNS can only use a single root zone, and most of the world points to an ICANN root. This flaw creates an artificial scarcity with domain names, but as you can see from the OpenNIC project literally anyone can set up a root zone and create new TLDs with minimal cost (all of the software is free, we only pay for the electricity to run our servers).
 
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@Save Breach -- I am essentially "back-end" crew for OpenNIC, meaning that I have written the majority of the back end code that nobody ever sees, but it makes the whole project tick and ties things together. I was one of the early proponents for revamping OpenNIC in such a way that there were no single points of failure such as having any one server handle the DNS entries for domains or TLDs. I would say that you haven't seen my work, except I also wrote a number of the web-based tools including the registrar at be.libre. It is probably obvious that I'm not that great at graphical design, but our project is based on the work of volunteers and there hasn't been a movement towards tying everything together into a single cohesive platform.

As @Paul Buonopane pointed out, there is no way to ensure that logs are kept strictly private. All of our DNS servers are provided by project members who have similar interests, and it's all based on trust. If we were a business then we would simply buy hosting in multiple countries and set up DNS servers controlled by the company. The caveat here is that any business will retain the log files for troubleshooting, but could also turn that information into a revenue stream. With OpenNIC, nobody really cares about selling your data, but we do care about privacy from an individual standpoint.

And yeah, DNS is only involved in looking up the initial connection. Once your data stream begins you are well beyond the DNS servers. Thing of DNS like a phone book -- You look up someone's name and get their phone number. Once you have that number, the phone book is no longer involved in your call.

@Big Mac -- It's really interesting how much the internet has changed over the years. Back in the 90's when we were all on dial-up or even DSL, there was a time when signing up with an ISP meant getting a packet of information including instructions on setting your DNS entries to those of the ISP, so it was very commonplace. These days everything is automated and nobody knows how to make changes for themselves. :)

Regarding getting your own TLD, we (OpenNIC) do actually have a process for that which includes presenting a case to the membership as to why a new TLD would be of benefit. Generally we also require that the person or group requesting the TLD can show the technical knowledge to operate and maintain it but there have been a couple cases where there was a lot of interest in the presented idea and one of our existing operators took charge of operations. Sure we could have an unlimited number of TLDs available, but the reality is that a lot of people show up with a great idea and then are gone forever in a week or two, so we have guidelines to keep from cluttering up our own namespace with unused DNS zones.

Yes, it would be great if alt-roots could someone be a part of the general internet, but unfortunately DNS was designed so that there can be only a single root zone. For most people using their computer defaults, that root zone is provided by ICANN. It ensures a monopoly, and that ensures that domain names have a monetary value. There are alternatives like bitcoin which provide a stateless DNS. This means there is no single controlling entity and anyone who takes the time can create their own domains for free. The problem with this method is that there is no verified person behind a domain name, so you can't hold anyone responsible if that domain is used for nefarious purposes. We're at an interesting point in the history of the internet because everyone wants their privacy and anonyminity to speak freely, but total privacy means there is no accountability or responsibility, and that leads to anarchy. Hopefully some day soon we will find a respectable balance between the extremes.

Sorry if that got too technical, I try to keep it light while still getting my point across, but I frequently fail.
 
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[January 2015]
////

[December 2016]

Re: [opennic-discuss] Important: reg.for.free, and thus .geek and .indy signups unavailable

https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/msg00232.html

There's never really been a consistent, streamlined way to register or manage OpenNIC domains. Historically, it has essentially be run by enthusiasts, albeit in a relatively formal manner. I've always thought it was a cool project, but I think most participants never really expected it to see widespread use. It's cool to see mainstream registrars and investors taking an interest; just keep in mind that the usual caveats for such projects apply. Sometimes they take off--like Bitcoin did. Usually they don't.

Investing aside, OpenNIC is a cool project. Regardless of you opinions on alternative TLDs, it's worth reading more about them.
 
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So, if you can't use them normally, then they have no value for investors.
 
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.O is a VPN domain, and can only be accessed through a personal server. or a .Bit extention on Google, FireFox ec.. They are exactly like .coin, .bit, .geek, etc..... They are good for those who want more privacy and protection for their websites. And are currently Non-Icann approved.
 
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@Paul Buonopane . I have really appreciated your technical expertise shared in this thread. Would welcome your comments on best way to facilitate the discussion on alternative extensions going forward.

That's entirely up to the moderators. I was looking for technical clarification from the standpoint of a potential customer, not as a NamePros staff member. I've tinkered with alternate systems over the years and would've gladly paid a $5 convenience fee to easily manage OpenNIC domains alongside my other domains. As someone who's interested in the technical details of DNS, I've always found OpenNIC to be an amazing educational resource and a great way to stay up-to-date on the latest DNS developments, but actually going about getting domains has always been a pain.

In general, I don't want to promote or favor any specific alternate system. The concept of alternate systems isn't new, but the push for them to go mainstream is. As a programmer and security professional, I appreciate the growing interest in alternate systems; these are important, healthy conversations to have, even if the conclusion is that they aren't commercially viable in the long term. As a NamePros staff member, my goal is provide a safe, neutral platform on which these conversations can take place, but not to promote any one system. And I will have no hand in moderating--that isn't my job and would be inappropriate.
 
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The same thing I wrote for .geek applies for .o. EPIK who prizes itself for being a domainer's friend should make it more apparent at checkout that alt DNS domains are not regular domains

I snagged one stellar .geek domain related to my niche. I wish I could use it as a regular domain :( I don't want to be a Negative Nelly, but I find the non ICANN alternate DNS a little useless. I do like how the .geek extension matches the technical-savvy, privacy concerned individual's profile, but if such people really wanted uber security they would just set up a TOR service!! The bonus is that the domains look pretty to look at when you're reviewing your domain lists in your control panel.

I would like someone to prove me wrong though! Send me an example of a good alt DNS site (preferably screenshot it since most will not have direct access to it.)

I am not looking to resell. Real user use is what matters at the end of the day. I am just going to forward it to my main .com site and see if it gets any random traffic since as I said, I have one awesome keyword
 
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It is not Epiks fault if you do not research what you are buying, Thats Domaining 101. Also, you can not add VPN domains to Sedo, Afternic, Dan etc
So it's taken for granted whoever purchases a domain is an expert about domain names? Most end users hardly know about all this stuff.
I am not against alternate domains and support decentralisation. But I should be given the proper information to choose something knowing what it is. If I like I opt, if not I don't.
 
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Really now do you know where other can be register ?

You can most likely register .o domains for free by simply emailing the TLD operator, as with most OpenNIC TLDs. It's a bit of a pain; you won't even be able to change your nameservers via a website. Everything has to be handled manually by the one person who runs the TLD. I assume Epik is essentially charging a convenience fee.

I believe .o is run by Jonah Aragon. The easiest way to reach them is probably the OpenNIC IRC channel. Jonah also pops into the OpenNIC Discord server from time to time, though I haven't seen him in a while.
 
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Among other things, Toki serves as a resilient, decentralized authoritative DNS resolver for domains that people could own forever.
Rob, I wanted to point out that OpenNIC has had bad experience with decentralized resolvers in the past -- specifically the .bit zone. The issue here was that there was no controlling agency that required strict confirmation of real persons registering the domains. This led to hundreds of domains being used to spread malware, entities such as Spamhaus trying to clamp down on the spread, and OpenNIC being caught in the middle. In the end we could find no way to solve the various problems without compromising our own values, so our members voted to drop peering with the .bit zone.
 
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No matter one's views, the whole field of alternative domain spaces is an important topic worthy of a thread on the general topic, rather than restricted to one particular extension (or two in a sense I guess :xf.eek:).

This thread has evolved somewhat to become on alternative spaces and how to resolve them in general, with excellent sharing of information, but the title remains .o Official Discussion. I am not sure if there is any procedure for renaming, @Mod Team Alfa @Mod Team Bravo , or if simply better if someone starts a new thread on the general topic, with a link provided here for continuity.

If another thread is started, not sure if any procedure for moving some content that refers to other extensions than .o from here to there, but that is probably difficult to do without using the continuity of the discussion.

@Paul Buonopane . I have really appreciated your technical expertise shared in this thread. Would welcome your comments on best way to facilitate the discussion on alternative extensions going forward.

Obviously @CreativeMedia.us who started this thread should comment on thoughts re any possible title or nature change to the thread.

I know many threads do spread out from a narrow original focus to a broader one, so maybe it is fine making no change at all, but thought I would raise the topic.

Bob
 
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I don't know enough to comment on their viability as domain names or investments. Operating outside the standard DNS ecosystem, while potentially having some advantages, is also potentially fraught with serious problems. While it is easy to find fault with ICANN procedures, UDRP proceedings, etc., the incredibly short wording re, for example, how an alternative DNS space name might be taken away is worrisome.

I think that currently, with the software used by vast majority of Internet users not resolving them, the retail market will probably be very limited.

I believe that when alternate space (i.e. non directly resolvable) names are put for sale on NamePros or on other platforms like NameLiquidate, where I have seen a few listed, their should be some clear warning that they are alternative domain space names, like the main marketplaces do with IDN, for example.

This link from the OpenNIC wiki has information on some of the questions asked near the top of the thread re DNS resolvers, browser plug-ins (seems Firefox and Chrome have) to support them, etc.

I have not personally tried any of this (nor invested in any).

Bob
 
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And yes I got emails but I didn’t read them because I thought they were just confirmation emails that I had registered the domains. But that is my fault I didn’t read them because the email does say they are alt domains.
But that was after you purchased, Registrars should be fair enough to say that before, isn't it?
 
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I was playing with alternate DNS root system before few years ago and it's offline recently.

https://www.facebook.com/dnseek/posts/1787761911549114

Even if it wasn't populated much, there was around 30 members who signed up and registered few names in first day.

Registration was free, but i was planning to offer some add-on services within affordable pricing.

If we were in early 2000's, i could say it's fair to commerce the registration of these domain names, but, in 2020, i don't find it fair for Epik or any other registrar trying to charge it without any innovation while OpenNIC offers it for free or Unstoppable Domains even if they use the decentralized version.
 
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@Rob Monster, you still haven't clarified how you're handling .o registrations. That zone hasn't accepted any new registrations since February.
 
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This is just another worthless, bogus "extension".

Anything that requires a special setup such as root servers, software, add-on extensions is largely useless.

Brad
 
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Brief summary of the thread:
  • Someone claiming to be a Country Manager at Epik.com opens an official thread for .O domain Managed by independent members of the community OpenNIC
  • Some Member who registered single character .geek domains checked the OpenNIC wiki and found that OpenNIC does not allow less than three characters and contacted Epik.
  • Epik cancels the domain and gives a refund, infact cancels another domain of same member suo moto.
  • The CEO of Epik joins the discussion and clarifies that .O sold through Epik is not the same as the .o of OpenNIC
  • Registration of all alt domains available at Epik set as backorder or Pre Order.
  • There are several instances of .geek domains changing hands in the forum. Still not clear the .geek sold at Epik are the ones of OpenNIC or Epik's proprietary.
 
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Epik's .geek and OpenNIC's .geek aren't the same. example.geek at Epik and example.geek at OpenNIC could be owned and controlled by two separate people.

As a courtesy to OpenNIC, we suspended selling overlapping TLDs. There is an abundance of namespace for Alt TLDs. @Sufyan Alani will be in touch with them to explore API integration.
 
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