Normally use Escrow.. Curious how do you sell a domain with PayPal safely?

[brandnow]

I have always used escrow in the past. Seeing PayPal accepted on NamePros and other forums though makes me wonder. How do you avoid getting burned using PayPal? Can somebody please explain the steps to avoid fraud from a scammer doing a chargeback, etc. Thanks

 

[Keith]

You simply have to trust the buyer/seller. PayPal will not offer any protection for domain deals gone wrong.

 

[equity78]

Keith is 100% right, you don't and with Paypal being a completely separate entity from Ebay now, they decided to give BUYER protection on Digital Goods, the seller has none. I have spoken to people at Paypal above the initial customer service level and they told me we will always go through with what the buyer says. I said what if I have screenshots that shows they got the name then did the chargeback ? They said its not us its the banks, we have no way of proving to them that the buyer got the goods. The bank will always back the buyer because you have no proof, they recommended actually shipping something like a piece of paper with the password to get access to the name.

You need to protect yourself, there is no reason why someone shouldn't use escrow, if a buyer tells you no then they might be working some kind of angle.

You can use Sedo with a 3% escrow fee if they don't like using Escrow.com.

 

[LucidDomains]

You simply have to trust the buyer/seller. PayPal will not offer any protection for domain deals gone wrong.

Not sure if that's right, however I haven't had one go wrong to test.

I have always used escrow in the past. Seeing PayPal accepted on NamePros and other forums though makes me wonder. How do you avoid getting burned using PayPal? Can somebody please explain the steps to avoid fraud from a scammer doing a chargeback, etc. Thanks

I had this exact thought recently and I called them up. They said they are a lot better at protecting the domain transactions than ever before. I can't recall all their steps, but they do WHOIS checks and so forth. My confidence has increased somewhat from this reassuring call, but I wouldn't use big money with them.

I do make sure to take a screenshot of the WHOIS with my details on it and ensure that I invoice the buyer through PayPal and make sure that its absolutely clear its for a domain.

Also someone said to include a disclaimer against chargebacks but I haven't done this yet, but it does seem like a good idea...."By paying this invoice you agree you cannot get a refund or initiate a chargeback. All purchases are final." or something like that.

I know PayPal has buyer protection, I can't recall if there is seller protection. I would certainly recommend giving them a call.

FYI - PayPal charges 3.4% on transactions for goods or services.

 

[biggie]

keep it plain and simple

don't do use paypal with people you don't feel comfortable with.

imo...

 

[johname]

PP domain transactions are like what biggie mentions plus the low dollar money you don't mind taking a chance with. And those domains your not going to renew.

Nice if they change it but its too set in stone that the buyer the side to worry about.

And if they change it enough they will want an escrow like fee.

Imagine PP having to pay support to check whois on every $x-xx domain sale.

 

[equity78]

Protection for sellers

When you are not covered:

• Items are picked up locally or delivered in person.
• You sell services, intangible items, or digital goods.
• You receive multiple payments for the same item.
• You've received a claim or a chargeback, and the shipped item is found to be significantly different than it was described.
  Example: You describe a new laptop, but send a used one.
• PayPal Direct Payments
• Virtual Terminal Payments
• PayPal Business Payments
• Items that are not shipped to the recipient shipping address on the transaction details page. If you originally ship the item to the shipping address but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery.

 

[greggb]

I've sold over 50 domain names on Ebay for $100 or less and haven't had any issues. I suppose there is a risk of someone screwing me over, but even if it does happen 1 out of every 50 or 100 transactions that's not going to devastate me.

 

[iowadawg]

PP has changed their policy effective next month to give protection so SELLERS of digital goods.

 

[RevolutionaryDomains]

On NP I typically accept Paypal from established members with positive TR. I figure most on here will not want to ruin their reputation with a chargeback on a low cost domain buy. For new members I use Escrow, at least for the first transaction.

If on eBay, and you have a reason to worry, such as new member, poor feedback, etc; simply do as was suggested by Equity, and process a 1 oz shipment and mail them a packing slip. It generates a tracking number, which will be scanned while in transit. Once scan shows delivered, push the name.

 

[LucidDomains]

PP has changed their policy effective next month to give protection so SELLERS of digital goods.

I have had explicit confirmation by calling PayPal just now, that the domains are NOT included in SELLER protection and are not planned to be anytime soon.

Seller protection may include digital downloads and/or software, amongst other things. Please check with PayPal directly for more information about which type of digital good is included.

If you think this incorrect, please provide me with a link or someone I can contact in PayPal stating otherwise.

Thank you!

 

[Enfant]

Thank you to everyone posted. It was really nice to know that:
1) domains are not covered with Paypal Protection Program
2) multiple payments for the same item - not covered as well.
Many domainers will ask how to accept payment for big amount with Paypal and the answer usually is "multiple payments".

It seems like domaining with Paypal is amazing risk, you really need to know the Buyer. And in real life, how can you know him that well? It's impossible to predict all your buyers, just to rely solely on the word or use escrow instead.

From my experience which is not related to domaining I can say that those "customer service representatives" working in Paypal that suppose to give you back your money in case you are cheated are fly by night people hired from 3rd world countries that know nothing about your product.

 

[iowadawg]

So you are saying those people who work at Paypal in Omaha, Nebraska are all third world people?
Hahahhahahaha..
Will tell my niece she is third world.

 

[indiegrind]

I have done many paypal domain transactions for $200-$500.

I only do it when I know I am dealing with a professional business and I have reached out to them. I have invoiced and even transfered the domain first in some cases. I havent been burned yet but I know its only a matter of time.

Over $500 I use escrow.com or I have had a couple companies mail me a certified check.

 

[SpareDomains]

Biggest PayPal deal I did was like 10k I believe but I trusted the buyer. Would say if it's more money than you can afford to lose use Escrow.com

 

[NeteurMedia]

I have done many paypal domain transactions for $200-$500.

I only do it when I know I am dealing with a professional business and I have reached out to them. I have invoiced and even transfered the domain first in some cases. I havent been burned yet but I know its only a matter of time.

Over $500 I use escrow.com or I have had a couple companies mail me a certified check.

Check with Escrow.com but I believe their limit is $ 5k for transactions funded through paypal

 

[cdboard]

I would be worried about having my paypal account locked if someone sent me $10,000.

 

[Nick]

Doing business through PayPal takes a mix of common sense and experience. I previously owned a mobile phone unlock code business where I was bringing in about $30k/month through PayPal. Luckily, the majority of what I was selling came from a mathematical algorithm I had, so if I lost a charge back for some reason, it wasn't a huge deal. HOWEVER, there were some services that required me to source from a third-party and therefore required me to make an initial investment to fulfill the customers' orders. Some of the same tactics I've used can be applied to selling domains.

If you're selling from a website that has a contact form, make sure you're recording the IP. If the IP comes from Pakistan but the buyer's shipping address is in Toledo, Ohio, there's cause for concern.

If there's any hint that the buyer is shady, even after you received the payment, wait 24-72 hours before you transfer the domain. If the account or credit card they're using is stolen, PayPal will likely be notified in that time frame. Therefore, you're not transferring the domain and then getting the chargeback. The buyer wouldn't be able to open a dispute simply because you haven't transferred the domain, yet.

Ship the buyer an invoice via USPS, FedEx or UPS and pay extra for signature confirmation. Once you get the tracking number, make sure to add it to the transaction on your PayPal account.

If you have a website, be sure to have a Privacy Policy and well worded Terms of Service that specifically states the terms of use for PayPal transactions as well as a return policy. I realize that the average user will never read it, but PayPal will.

Keep records of EVERYTHING. If you ever have a dispute, provide EVERY detail, as if you were wrongly accused of a crime in a court of law. If you're on the up-and-up, PayPal will likely side with you.

In my previous business, the average ticket was around $10 so doing things like mailing invoices wasn't always worth it. When the ticket was higher, like $100 or $200, you better believe I was spending 2 minutes of time and $10 to mail out that invoice. Believe it or not, it's actually easier to win disputes as the seller through PayPal than through a credit card merchant processor. Unless you're doing business with someone you can completely trust, like the CEO of a well-known company, it may make more sense to use an Escrow company. But if you're doing lower value transactions, PayPal is hard to avoid using. Either case, I hope this helps.

 

[Optimal Names]

Several years ago my wife sold an item on eBay and it was stated that she HAD TO accept PayPal (even though she didnt want to). We understand why, but didnt like being forced to.

The item was listed "as-is" and "no returns" but the item did work. I tested it myself and I carefully packed it as well. The mistake I made was to not photograph the product, specifically the serial number. Or even take a video of the product as it was working. It was a non-moving parts item, packed perfectly and shipping could not damage it unless it was crushed in a recycling center.. Buyer put in a claim stating the product didnt work. Buyer stated that the shipping box was not damaged. Didnt matter that we listed it "as-is" and "no returns", Paypal wanted her to return the item and provide a refund. We were weary because the buyer was fairly new, but had a good record, however we had read (after the claim was filed) about a scam around that time where people were returning their broken product in exchange for the good one they just purchased. They get the refund and the good product and the seller gets a broken item and is out the amount of the sale. Since we couldnt prove that the returned item was actually our item, we declined to receive the "broken" item and had no choice but to allow the buyer to keep the item and get refunded 100%.

After Paypal (and eBay) screwed us over, I/we vowed to never do business with them again. That meant we closed our eBay accounts, our Paypal accounts, and our credit cards.... Its been almost 10 years, we never looked back and honestly we didnt lose a wink of sleep without relationships with those companies. Its one thing for us to have made a procedural mistake by not writing down or photographing our product before it shipped, but its another thing when terms such as "as-is" and "no refunds" mean nothing at all and are not honored. Paypal sided with the buyer and nearly accused us of fraud. And that was after we had escalated the issue several levels up from the initial customer service folks. I have never defrauded anyone in my life and neither has my wife. Feeling offended and angered are understatements.

Nowadays when I see Paypal with respect to domains, I cringe. I cant imagine why anyone would risk accepting Paypal but to each their own I suppose. I guess until one has an issue with anything their not going to fully understand the ramifications. Its escrow of some form or no sale. I dont even want cash or check.

 

[eyedomainous]

If I ever do use paypal for a sizeable domain sale, I'm thinking the best way to go is...

Send monthly email payment links, using the Subscription payment format... that covers the buyer's chargeback window, plus a week -or 30 days if I have a doubt.

Of course, I change the DNS so they can use the site... but don't sign-over the title/whois until the last payment is made.

I explain that its just like buying a car. And that email communications are legally binding.