question New company wants to buy my old domain name.

[namexf]

Hi guys.
I am new to this.
I will try to simplify.
I own a .com domain name from many many years. Its been parked all this time.
Now a new company has contacted me and they want to buy it from me.
This company's name is the same as my domain name. And they have recently registered a local domain
with that name. But they are interested on buying the .com version (from me).
The key point is that I registered the domain name before this company even existed with this name.

Is there a risk that they could forcefully take it away from me if I try to negotiate a price that it is too high?

I am open to sell it but I would like to know how much can I ask.

Thanks in advance.

 

[namexf]

Tesla Motors bought Tesla.com

I am reading that Grossman bought the domain in 1992 and in 2005 had to defend himself against a UDRP from Tesla Industries, that curiously was founded also in 1992.
Tesla Motors was founded much later and maybe because of this, they didn't sue Grossman. They paid between 500k and 1M$.

 

[Michael Ehrhardt]

I am reading that Grossman bought the domain in 1992 and in 2005 had to defend himself against a UDRP from Tesla Industries, that curiously was founded also in 1992.
Tesla Motors was founded much later and maybe because of this, they didn't sue Grossman. They paid between 500k and 1M$.

Tesla.com was sold for 11 Million

Amazon.com bought Amazon.se ( Sweden )

 

[namexf]

Tesla.com was sold for 11 Million

Amazon.com bought Amazon.se ( Sweden )

Ok. I see.

 

[NicTraders]

I have set them an email today. Told them that I will make an offer in the next few days.
I don't plan to talk to them indecisively. I will keep my indecisions here.

I have just checked Estibot and Godaddy and Freevaluator and got 100$, 1800$, 450$ valuations.
Nameworth requires registration.
I think valuation for this word is difficult. But anyway 10k to 20k is too much i think.

I will take a look at those videos, thank you.

@namexf I really think you might be about to undersell yourself on this domain. Personally I would have asked them to present an offer. But now that you've said you'll make one I wouldn't go too low. Sure, the name valuation services (which I reckon are usually pretty useless) say it's not worth much. But the fact is that it ONLY matters what the buyer thinks it's worth. What you have is what we call a 'brandable'. Most brandables come up with very low values in those valuation services. That's common. But you have a name that someone else wants. An opening offer of $10k - $20k seems quite reasonable to me. And the most important thing to remember in negotiations is that you can always drop the price if you want to as the negotiations go on, but you'll never get a chance to increase it. Anyway, good luck.

 

[namexf]

@namexf I really think you might be about to undersell yourself on this domain. Personally I would have asked them to present an offer. But now that you've said you'll make one I wouldn't go too low. Sure, the name valuation services (which I reckon are usually pretty useless) say it's not worth much. But the fact is that it ONLY matters what the buyer thinks it's worth. What you have is what we call a 'brandable'. Most brandables come up with very low values in those valuation services. That's common. But you have a name that someone else wants. An opening offer of $10k - $20k seems quite reasonable to me. And the most important thing to remember in negotiations is that you can always drop the price if you want to as the negotiations go on, but you'll never get a chance to increase it. Anyway, good luck.

Yep. Same oppinion as forumer Pazu.

And I have just found out that they also registered the .NET domain.
Silly me i didn't check it before.
Thus, they have registered two TLD domains: the country TLD plus the .NET.
Plus they have open accounts in Youtube and social media.
Although they have no activity, just logos.

 

[namexf]

I am viewing their videos on Youtube and in fact are quite impressive.
They install heavy equipment all over the world.
So now i am a believer. Yes, for them, having the .com domain makes sense.

So asking for 10-20k looks possible.

 

[BlackCatsAreNice]

Allow to me play devil's advocate: Your .com is worth AT LEAST 10X your ask. $100-200K. At least.

If you're "in it to win it" with this domain name game thing, you need to go big. A company that installs heavy equipment all over the world could afford it. After all, we are talking about the .com equivalent of their company name here Their BRAND. The essence of who they are.

I might be revealing my hand too much here (i.e. the strategy of how I price my domain assets), but really, what's 10-20K gonna do ya these days? Especially if you have held on to the domain all these years. That's time and energy expended. You need to get your payback.

Good luck with the sale. I have turned a few hand reg's into $10k sales but for others, I am betting the bank.

Again, be in it to win it. Let's all retire early.

 

[namexf]

Edit problem again.

 

[namexf]

Allow to me play devil's advocate: Your .com is worth AT LEAST 10X your ask. $100-200K. At least.

If you're "in it to win it" with this domain name game thing, you need to go big. A company that installs heavy equipment all over the world could afford it. After all, we are talking about the .com equivalent of their company name here Their BRAND. The essence of who they are.

I might be revealing my hand too much here (i.e. the strategy of how I price my domain assets), but really, what's 10-20K gonna do ya these days? Especially if you have held on to the domain all these years. That's time and energy expended. You need to get your payback.

Good luck with the sale. I have turned a few hand reg's into $10k sales but for others, I am betting the bank.

Again, be in it to win it. Let's all retire early.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!
No, that is way too much.
They install heavy equipment but not very heavy. And in low volumes it seems.

If Tesla.com was sold for 1M... how in the world i am going to ask for 100k?? R u crazy?? Lol.

 

[namexf]

This is industrial equipment and robots for factories.
Maybe they don't manufacture the individual machinery. They probably buy the machines from somebody else and just install them. Maybe this require some programming... or some modifications....
These are relatively simple factories.
Nothing close to a Tesla factory... nononono.

But all in all looks good.
I should have watched the videos from the very beginning. I am so dumb.
They in fact included a link to their Youtube channel in the email that they sent me.

 

[BlackCatsAreNice]

Yes, if $10-20K makes sense, go for it. Usually, even if I am letting go of a domain in a scenario that I feel I am leaving money on the table, it's usually because I have another acquisition in mind that's time sensitive (i.e. danger of another buyer swooping in before me).

But after tax, you're not putting 10-20 in your wallet. So price accordingly.

 

[Name Trader]

@namexf - I fee the frustration of some of the other participants in this thread. What has the cost of trademark registration anywhere in the world, got to do with your situation. It's beginning to "feel" like you are a student, trying to get some answers here for a project. If you are not. Then you are way overthinking everything here. Just throw out a number you will be comfortable with, double or triple it, and give them a price, asap. Payment via Escrow.com with buyer paying the escrow fees. You do have a bank account I presume? A broker is going to get 20% of any sale price. So make sure you take that into consideration with your asking price. Who is your registrar. I will give you my opinion about their trustworthiness as a broker. Which will be my last contribution to this thread.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Welcome to NamePros @namexf

Your question is essentially legal re UDRP or URS possibility, as well as about selling, so you might want to consider posting in legal section.

Only a legal expert can provide definitive advice, so don't depend much on opinions of people like me. Here are my reflections..

• Remember that a company can have rights to a name established through use prior to the date of formal registration. It is good you had name prior to TM registration but don't overly depend on that.
• As others mentioned make sure no use of name in any way related to TM holder - like no parking that might have links to them.
• A TM is in general awarded in a use category. Not clear to me how general purpose name is.

Bob

Not at all true that only a legal expert can answer definitively Bob.

I'm not a lawyer but I know murder is wrong and a punishable offence. I also know I am expected to pay for goods on sale at shops.

-----------------------

As to the TM. You have the name parked. If they have an electrical product they are selling, then just tell them to get stuffed because you are about to launch a new range of socks. That's that bit sorted.

Unless they have trademarked every usage IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, which is impossible.

You owned it first, and continue to own it. You have a secret project for it. What right do they have to make you tell them what it is.

 

[branding]

just tell them to get stuffed because you are about to launch a new range of socks

Self washing socks. It's gonna be huge.

 

[namexf]

Not at all true that only a legal expert can answer definitively Bob.

I'm not a lawyer but I know murder is wrong and a punishable offence. I also know I am expected to pay for goods on sale at shops.

-----------------------

As to the TM. You have the name parked. If they have an electrical product they are selling, then just tell them to get stuffed because you are about to launch a new range of socks. That's that bit sorted.

Unless they have trademarked every usage IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, which is impossible.

You owned it first, and continue to own it. You have a secret project for it. What right do they have to make you tell them what it is.

Ok. I get it. Well explained.

 

[namexf]

@namexf - I fee the frustration of some of the other participants in this thread. What has the cost of trademark registration anywhere in the world, got to do with your situation. It's beginning to "feel" like you are a student, trying to get some answers here for a project. If you are not. Then you are way overthinking everything here. Just throw out a number you will be comfortable with, double or triple it, and give them a price, asap. Payment via Escrow.com with buyer paying the escrow fees. You do have a bank account I presume? A broker is going to get 20% of any sale price. So make sure you take that into consideration with your asking price. Who is your registrar. I will give you my opinion about their trustworthiness as a broker. Which will be my last contribution to this thread.

No problem. All the legal issues are clear now to me with the socks example.
Re. the payment, no problem. we will sort that out.
I don't think i will require a broker. I will research a bit more about this company and then will place my offer (ie. i will quote a price). I think it will be 10-20k as discussed before.

Also this company looks interesting to me. We might have some cooperation in the future. Maybe they are interested to license my self washing socks after i patent them.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for viewpoint @jamesall and while I agree that on many things one can be definitive without a legal background, I would argue that is not always the case in questions of intellectual property, where nuances and knowing intimately established precedents can be important.

selling, then just tell them to get stuffed because you are about to launch a new range of socks.

Just to point out that UDRP panels have established that plans to use a domain do not establish use unless those plans are detailed and establishable beyond the domain holder saying they have them. At least that is my understanding (not a legal opinion).

Bob

 

[namexf]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!
No, that is way too much.
They install heavy equipment but not very heavy. And in low volumes it seems.

If Tesla.com was sold for 1M... how in the world i am going to ask for 100k?? R u crazy?? Lol.

Sorry i was wrong. Musk paid 11M$ for Tesla.com.
I can't paste the link.

 

[BlackCatsAreNice]

Confused here. If the trademark/first use is AFTER the date your registered the domain, you should be in the clear. You are under no obligation to show any plans to use. You own the domain, with full retention of all rights.

Sure they can try to mount a reverse hijacking attempt but the chances of success are low.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Thanks for viewpoint @jamesall and while I agree that on many things one can be definitive without a legal background, I would argue that is not always the case in questions of intellectual property, where nuances and knowing intimately established precedents can be important.

Just to point out that UDRP panels have established that plans to use a domain do not establish use unless those plans are detailed and establishable beyond the domain holder saying they have them. At least that is my understanding (not a legal opinion).

Bob

Let's not forget that the OP had prior usage and has the freedom to change his usage as long as he keeps paying for renewals and doesn't tramp on their toes... with his socks.

 

[namexf]

Confused here. If the trademark/first use is AFTER the date your registered the domain, you should be in the clear. You are under no obligation to show any plans to use. You own the domain, with full retention of all rights.

Sure they can try to mount a reverse hijacking attempt but the chances of success are low.

No problem. I have many projects on the make that could be associated with the domain. I rarely complete my projects because i am not persistant but i do have projects all all kinds.
But lets suppose my project is about self warming socks. This would possibly conflict with this company. But if i prove that i started developing my selfwarming socks before they registered the trademark, then i would be safe too, i think.
If there is any problem with the selfwarming socks, i can always change my project to the self washing socks.

 

[namexf]

Sorry. In my post above i meant projects "in the making". My bad english. Lol.

 

[Name Trader]

No problem. I have many projects on the make that could be associated with the domain. I rarely complete my projects because i am not persistant but i do have projects all all kinds.
But lets suppose my project is about self warming socks. This would possibly conflict with this company. But if i prove that i started developing my selfwarming socks before they registered the trademark, then i would be safe too, i think.
If there is any problem with the selfwarming socks, i can always change my project to the self washing socks.

This is just crazy. You've been told that your domain registration supercedes their TM, by several people. So why are you persisting with these selfwarming/washing socks ideas? This really is my last comment in this, which has become, a stupid thread, IMHO.

 

[karmaco]

Let us know if it sells. It doesn’t seem you are really trying to sell a domain just chat. I would not submit an offer but make a buy it now button. They want it they make an offer.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Let's not forget that the OP had prior usage and has the freedom to change his usage as long as he keeps paying for renewals and doesn't tramp on their toes... with his socks.

Just to clarify, my comment was not meant to comment in any way on the status of this particular domain name. Clearly it has numerous factors in its favour as you say. Rather I just wanted to make sure that readers did not think that because they come up with a personal plan for a domain name, that privately held plan, without evidence of some specific and verifiable action, is not deemed legitimate use by URS and UDRP panels. Clearly it is a different situation if the business is in operation, or the plan has involved other verifiable steps, such as business registration, consulting contracts, etc.

For example earlier this year the BCG(.)top loss in URS there was as I understand it no monetization at all, no use of domain that in any way involved the complainant, and the owner claimed and showed an early website (although some question re date) and personal notes for a plan for use, but still the domain name was lost even though literally hundreds of possible uses for the three letter acronym. Was that right? Not in my opinion, but it is now another precedent for such determinations. Itt seems to me UDRP and URS precedents got widened a lot in 2019.

As I said, this is not to say anything specific on this domain name. But don't think coming up with a plan for a domain name is enough for panels to rule that you have a legitimate use for it.

Bob