Neustar Just Reached In And Grabbed My Domain...!!

[DomainTalker]

I had iTits.us registered at GoDaddy a few months ago....The domain was locked....Then, out of the blue, I got an email from Godaddy referring to a change to my registration details for iTits.us...

I replied by email straight away to GoDaddy, saying that I had authorised NO changes to my registration of that domain - and to please ensure that it was not interfered with (I feared someone was trying to steal it).....I got a reply saying that changes had happened...


I called GoDaddy - and, at first, they said they 'didn't understand' what had happened....Then, said 'Well, that domain is on the move...'!!...But, no info as to who was 'moving it' etc.....I was explicit to them to make sure that iTits.us did not move.

...I called GoDaddy a second time, asking for a guarantee that they would ensure iTits.us stayed in my GoDaddy account until I - the account holder - personally, authorised, any change of status.....Only then did they tell me Neustar (the .US registry) was taking it....!!!!


I called Neustar....They simply said: 'iTits.us breaks the rules - it contains one of the seven words banned by Neustar for .us domains - ie the word 'Tits'.....And that was that...!!

...My bought & paid for domain - iTits.us - was gone....!!...Neustar just reached into my personal account at Go Daddy - and grabbed a LOCKED domain from my account, and there was, apparantly, nothing I could do about it...!!


I understand that, if I inadvertently broke the rules with that name, then there should be discussion...perhaps, a negotiation...and I may even lose the domain etc...


But, on principal, I'm against two things here:


(i) That a Registry (or anyone, for that matter) can just TAKE (steal?) a registered, bought, and paid-for, locked, domain from your account - without notification, or notice, or negotiation, or the courtesy of a word.


(ii) That a Registrar - like GoDaddy - could ALLOW anyone to interfere with your LOCKED domains that they hold on their servers - And, allow them to take it out of your account.....Otherwise, what's the point of locked domains...???


How secure is that...???....Where's the integrity - and proper process....?


Yes, GoDaddy's auto system told me something was happening....And, after I complained - again - they did refund my registration fee...But, they did nothing to stop it being grabbed....Indeed, for it to happen at all, they (as the Registrar) had to have even facilitated the process....


This makes me feel pretty nervous about the integrity, and security, of the domain system...


Any thoughts...?

.

 

[binaryman]

Domaining is a thugs(mugs) game

 

[Dave_Z]

However, we do own the domains, we dont really just lease them... if we pay for their registration, it is our ownership for as long as we like.

While it's fine to believe that, your registration agreement says otherwise. In
essence, that belief means nothing to anyone else.

It just so happens the terms of the agreement puts the provider in a stronger
position than the end-user.

 

[DomainTalker]

Yes, rules are rules, I agree....and, if I broke the rules (and it seems the US is especially sensitive to Tits.....In Aussie, we LOVE 'em...lol), then I probably deserve to lose the domain...


....I say again....Its the attitude - the high-handed way it was done, I object to....No comment, no communication, no courtesy....Hell of a way to build a business, imo...

And, also, I feel there ought to be a proper process - so, we can at least feel our locked domains can't be hijacked without our knowledge...


But, hey....I'm over it now....just wanted to alert you folks to it happening...


....But, noone's gonna to pinch my .mobi's...!!....LOL

.

 

[goodkarmaco]

Well one thing is certain, this consfication will not help the registry any and thanks for posting it. Many will think twice now when registering .us names. The registry needs to wake up or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.

It won't take too many posts like this for this news to spread thru out the domain business and affect the quanity of .us names registered. Also if other names get yanked liked this end users will back off real quick too.

Cause and effect is a reality too.

 

[cache]

learned something today. thanks for sharing

 

[DomainTalker]

Well one thing is certain, this consfication will not help the registry any and thanks for posting it. Many will think twice now when registering .us names. The registry needs to wake up or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.

It won't take too many posts like this for this news to spread thru out the domain business and affect the quanity of .us names registered. Also if other names get yanked liked this end users will back off real quick too.

Cause and effect is a reality too.

Well said...Exactly....We need fully professional processes - if the domain space is to be taken seriously. There's too much at stake for everyone - domainers & end users, alike - for a 'cowboy' approach to issues...even if action is merited, in a given situation.

.

 

[goodkarmaco]

Exactly,

I for one will not register any sex domains in the .us extension after reading this
post.

 

[equity78]

How did you feel as an Australia resident you had the right to own a .us domain Lorenzo was exactly right as an Australian you are not permitted to own a .us domain

 

[Malaysia]

after reading this issue i realise domains are not property but issit consider assets?
i dun own them but i have the rights on them..

 

[RogueWriter]

I'm sorry you had your tits pulled without permission. Possibly you could concentrate on nipple domains as they are apparently quite acceptable to .us

Exactly. One thing that is being overlooked here, is the freedom of speech that is so fundamental to the U.S. . Kind of surprised the ACLU or someone hasn't bothered to take a swat at this policy yet, just to see if the U.S. extension can actually regulate someone's language. I wouldn't be going after domains like that myself, but I don't see how, exactly, preventing someone form registering itits.us is saving the world's moral fiber.

Now, you list your location as Australia.....are you sure this isn't an issue of someone from Australia trying to own a .US domain?

 

[Seabass]

This whole "ownership" thing went to court in, like, 2002-2003 for Sex.com. I remember it specifically b/c Network Solutions was trying to argue that domains are leases and therefore they should not have to compensate that Gary Kremmen guy who had his domain, Sex.com, which was stolen from him.

Well, the judge almost laughed at that contract, as I recall, and said in so many words "Domains are the fundamental core of an online business that folks build their whole world around, and something so vital to a business in which it paid cash for is actually the property of the registrant - not a lease." I'm not sure how the judge had authority to run over the contract, but we all know what happenend. Gary got a huge judgement of, I can't remember, $50,000,000?

So, as far as the courts are concerned case law is showing "ownership" so far of domains.

Feel free to correct me if I missed something here.

 

[metronome]

@OP/TS

Welcome to america:D.

 

[neroux]

Thats what makes it different from tangible property i guess.
This is on lease, we never owned it in the first place

Thats right. They could have not let allow Chris to renew the name after the paid registration term (although this would have been bad business ethics either) but taking away a name (effectively stealing it) is bordering fraud.

They were very well aware of the name when it was registered and could have taken necessary steps back then, but instead they allowed the registration and took the money and entered a binding contract hereby (besides, who knows when this ridiculous list of artificially made up names took effect, maybe even after the registration).

The point of Chris being Australian is true, however this was apparently not involved in this case (apart from the fact that he might be a US citizen living in Australia).

 

[DomainTalker]

This has raised a lot of interesting points - points that underpin some important principles of a marketplace in which we (and others) must have confidence.


Let me summarise some of the issues that have been raised in this thread:


(i) The principle about whether its right for anyone to be able to interfere with a property (owned, or leased) that is LOCKED in your account - without proper (or, indeed, any) notification to the owner, or lessee, of that property.


(ii) The issue of security of tenure - understandings - and the confidence to INVEST in that property, for which money has changed hands, and which it was reasonably understood conferred rights to the owner, or lessee. The arbitrariness of summary requisition of that property.


(iii) The issue of free speech - and the free use of language and expression....The notion that a word like 'Tits' can't be used - yet, say, 'nipples' can....The Registry may have 'rules' about certain words for the .us extension - but, does it have any basis in law?


(iv) The collusion between a Registry and a Registrar - to transfer a domain out of your control, without your permission, or even knowledge. Again, arbitrariness.


(v) The issue of 'ownership' of domains....If you have developed a domain, as a valuable asset - by investing large amounts of your money in it over many years (and now, perhaps, worth millions of dollars - eg Porn.com, or Sex.com etc).....It would be extraordinary if - for ANY reason, whatsoever - a Registry could argue that they (the Registry) still 'own' that domain, in any meaningful sense, and could re-possess it......I predict there will be court cases over this very issue in the future, as more domain properties become extremely valuable.


These are important issues that underlie what the .US Registry did with 'iTits.us'.


As to my being Australian - and owning a .us domain...

neroux is correct - my Australian residence was never mentioned in this case...neither by email, nor in phone calls with GoDaddy & Neustar....The issue was only about the word 'Tits' being against Neustar rules.


Having said that - yes, I understand I probably didn't qualify to register iTits.us, because I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have US-based business interests.

I can only say that my account details at GoDaddy were open, and clear: My Registrant & Admin contact details show clearly an Australian address. Its open - nothing hidden. When GoDaddy allowed me to successfully register a .us domain, I assumed (reasonably, I think) it was therefore okay to do so (perhaps it was part of the existing Australia/US Free Trade Deal).

...Just as when I registered iTits.us successfully - and my payment was accepted for it - I assumed that implied agreement that that domain was allowed.

In the event, I was wrong on both counts.


However, that still doesn't change shoddy practice & procedure, imo....Nor does it alleviate some of the other important principles many of you note in this thread.

.

 

[neroux]

I can only say that my account details at GoDaddy were open, and clear: My Registrant & Admin contact details show clearly an Australian address. Its open - nothing hidden. When GoDaddy allowed me to successfully register a .us domain, I assumed (reasonably, I think) it was therefore okay to do so.

...Just as when I registered iTits.us successfully - and my payment was accepted for it - I assumed that implied agreement that that domain was allowed.

And exactly because of this I'd call this act of the registry fraud.

The registry as well as the registrar were both very well aware of the facts behind the registration (nationality as well as domain name). Both had enough time to deny the registration but instead went on accepting the order and payment and letting go through the registration.

The way the registry acted afterwards by using a random list of words as excuse to take away the paid object is nothing else than theft. Usually my suggestion would be to take this case to a court - if it werent for the hassle and costs.

 

[Seabass]

And exactly because of this I'd call this act of the registry fraud.

The registry as well as the registrar were both very well aware of the facts behind the registration (nationality as well as domain name). Both had enough time to deny the registration but instead went on accepting the order and payment and letting go through the registration.

The way the registry acted afterwards by using a random list of words as excuse to take away the paid object is nothing else than theft. Usually my suggestion would be to take this case to a court - if it werent for the hassle and costs.

I agree totally.

Also, it's hard to believe that they have a "moral compass" regarding "Tits", but not "thieving a domain". So, Tits are worse than Stealing is what they are saying. God forbid, someone tries to outlaw Tits in the real world - we would have full scale male anarchy.

It's collusion between Godaddy and Nuestar. They make more money by not telling you upfront, and since it costs money to police the domains or write software that autoscans every domain registration, option number one looks more attractive.

If they get a class action against them they will still probably pay out less in a settlement than they made screwing 10,000 domain owners out of their domains. So its a win-win for them. Big companies these days have the mentality of street thugs. No different really.

This kind of stuff can only make .com more valuable.

 

[goodkarmaco]

Then we have auction houses like Afternic that in one swell swoop without ANY warning pulled tens of thousands of domains that are sexual in nature.

This created a nighmare for all who had names with any refrence at all to sex, tits, nipples.. all of them pulled with no advance warning. This was all done behind the scene when Afternic was negotiating with a new owner. Our partnership with these companies has no standing and we can see by our treatment that domainers are not even showed the respect that any partnership deserves, to be kept in the loop as regards our investment.

An update about Afternic, recently a member posted in Discuss names that now after all the names were pulled Afternic has thousands of said names back in their system for sale, my assumption is many are names for sale by the new owner.

 

[npcomplete]

Exactly,

I for one will not register any sex domains in the .us extension after reading this
post.

Don't worry about that goodkarmaco, sex is not banned in the US, just tits. :hehe:

reg away with confidence.

Marc

 

[fenal]

If a small number of words are banned, why do they allow a registration in the first place? could something not be put in place to prevent the registration of a domain that includes a banned word.

 

[npcomplete]

If a small number of words are banned, why do they allow a registration in the first place? could something not be put in place to prevent the registration of a domain that includes a banned word.

Short answer: yes, but not practical.

You would need to scan ALL registered domains for substrings containing banned words (easy). The hard part is determining which substrings are legit as part of the larger string. This is the test that is difficult for automated pattern recognition.

To be consistent, you would then have to apply the same reasoning to searches for TM's, scanning all known TM registration services on earth, since the TM is not restricted to US only. Being in the US, I scan the USPTO, and occasionally some others.

There really is some obligation on the part of the customer to exercise due diligence before registration... and READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE (heaven forbid that somebody might actually read those terms before clicking on the I Agree button)

Marc