Neustar Just Reached In And Grabbed My Domain...!!

[DomainTalker]

I had iTits.us registered at GoDaddy a few months ago....The domain was locked....Then, out of the blue, I got an email from Godaddy referring to a change to my registration details for iTits.us...

I replied by email straight away to GoDaddy, saying that I had authorised NO changes to my registration of that domain - and to please ensure that it was not interfered with (I feared someone was trying to steal it).....I got a reply saying that changes had happened...


I called GoDaddy - and, at first, they said they 'didn't understand' what had happened....Then, said 'Well, that domain is on the move...'!!...But, no info as to who was 'moving it' etc.....I was explicit to them to make sure that iTits.us did not move.

...I called GoDaddy a second time, asking for a guarantee that they would ensure iTits.us stayed in my GoDaddy account until I - the account holder - personally, authorised, any change of status.....Only then did they tell me Neustar (the .US registry) was taking it....!!!!


I called Neustar....They simply said: 'iTits.us breaks the rules - it contains one of the seven words banned by Neustar for .us domains - ie the word 'Tits'.....And that was that...!!

...My bought & paid for domain - iTits.us - was gone....!!...Neustar just reached into my personal account at Go Daddy - and grabbed a LOCKED domain from my account, and there was, apparantly, nothing I could do about it...!!


I understand that, if I inadvertently broke the rules with that name, then there should be discussion...perhaps, a negotiation...and I may even lose the domain etc...


But, on principal, I'm against two things here:


(i) That a Registry (or anyone, for that matter) can just TAKE (steal?) a registered, bought, and paid-for, locked, domain from your account - without notification, or notice, or negotiation, or the courtesy of a word.


(ii) That a Registrar - like GoDaddy - could ALLOW anyone to interfere with your LOCKED domains that they hold on their servers - And, allow them to take it out of your account.....Otherwise, what's the point of locked domains...???


How secure is that...???....Where's the integrity - and proper process....?


Yes, GoDaddy's auto system told me something was happening....And, after I complained - again - they did refund my registration fee...But, they did nothing to stop it being grabbed....Indeed, for it to happen at all, they (as the Registrar) had to have even facilitated the process....


This makes me feel pretty nervous about the integrity, and security, of the domain system...


Any thoughts...?

.

 

[fenal]

Short answer: yes, but not practical.

You would need to scan ALL registered domains for substrings containing banned words (easy). The hard part is determining which substrings are legit as part of the larger string. This is the test that is difficult for automated pattern recognition.

To be consistent, you would then have to apply the same reasoning to searches for TM's, scanning all known TM registration services on earth, since the TM is not restricted to US only. Being in the US, I scan the USPTO, and occasionally some others.

There really is some obligation on the part of the customer to exercise due diligence before registration... and READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE (heaven forbid that somebody might actually read those terms before clicking on the I Agree button)

Marc

I see what you mean, i agree and you certainly know your stuff regarding the scanning.

Im sorry to read of this happening to DomainTalker, i guess always something can be learned by things like this happening.

 

[bladel]

Um...really there's nothing GoDaddy can do...

I had iTits.us registered at GoDaddy a few months ago....The domain was locked....Then, out of the blue, I got an email from Godaddy referring to a change to my registration details for iTits.us...

I replied by email straight away to GoDaddy, saying that I had authorised NO changes to my registration of that domain - and to please ensure that it was not interfered with (I feared someone was trying to steal it).....I got a reply saying that changes had happened...


I called GoDaddy - and, at first, they said they 'didn't understand' what had happened....Then, said 'Well, that domain is on the move...'!!...But, no info as to who was 'moving it' etc.....I was explicit to them to make sure that iTits.us did not move.

...I called GoDaddy a second time, asking for a guarantee that they would ensure iTits.us stayed in my GoDaddy account until I - the account holder - personally, authorised, any change of status.....Only then did they tell me Neustar (the .US registry) was taking it....!!!!


I called Neustar....They simply said: 'iTits.us breaks the rules - it contains one of the seven words banned by Neustar for .us domains - ie the word 'Tits'.....And that was that...!!

...My bought & paid for domain - iTits.us - was gone....!!...Neustar just reached into my personal account at Go Daddy - and grabbed a LOCKED domain from my account, and there was, apparantly, nothing I could do about it...!!


I understand that, if I inadvertently broke the rules with that name, then there should be discussion...perhaps, a negotiation...and I may even lose the domain etc...


But, on principal, I'm against two things here:


(i) That a Registry (or anyone, for that matter) can just TAKE (steal?) a registered, bought, and paid-for, locked, domain from your account - without notification, or notice, or negotiation, or the courtesy of a word.


(ii) That a Registrar - like GoDaddy - could ALLOW anyone to interfere with your LOCKED domains that they hold on their servers - And, allow them to take it out of your account.....Otherwise, what's the point of locked domains...???


How secure is that...???....Where's the integrity - and proper process....?


Yes, GoDaddy's auto system told me something was happening....And, after I complained - again - they did refund my registration fee...But, they did nothing to stop it being grabbed....Indeed, for it to happen at all, they (as the Registrar) had to have even facilitated the process....


This makes me feel pretty nervous about the integrity, and security, of the domain system...


Any thoughts...?

.

Just so you're aware...there's nothing GoDaddy can do. The registration "lives" on Neustar's servers, not at GoDaddy. In this case (and nearly all cases) the Registry holds all the cards.

Had the name been registered with a different registrar, or even if you yourself became a registrar, you still couldn't have prevented this deletion.

IMHO, if there are only seven words not allowed in .US, then why doesn't Neustar just reject registrations that match the *<dirtyword>* pattern?

 

[DomainTalker]

(edit: Re: Why can't a Registrar scan out domains that offend - before sale?)

Short answer: yes, but not practical.

You would need to scan ALL registered domains for substrings containing banned words (easy). The hard part is determining which substrings are legit as part of the larger string. This is the test that is difficult for automated pattern recognition.

Yes, its hard - but, because its difficult, doesn't justify accepting a binding financial contract - and accepting money - and then reneging on that contract later.

That's like putting a product you know is faulty on the market for sale because its too hard to correct the fault - and, then selling that product....If you know its faulty you are liable for damages in court....Arguing that it was 'too hard' to correct the fault before you sold it would be laughed out of any court.


I guess I say: - if you don't want to sell a domain with the word 'Tits' in it - then don't put it on the open market for sale, in the first place - because that implies you want to sell it.

I say: It being 'too hard' to identify something of yours that you don't want to sell - is no defence.

There really is some obligation on the part of the customer to exercise due diligence before registration... and READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE (heaven forbid that somebody might actually read those terms before clicking on the I Agree button)

Marc

I agree....and, obviously Neustar relies upon this to snatch the domain back.


But, I guess, what we're looking at here, though, is whether such Terms of Service are, in fact, a nonsense, when they offer something for sale, that they don't want to sell...lol.


....ie TOS that say: "...On the one hand, you can't have domains with words like 'Tits' in it - but, on the other hand, we're offering to sell it to you..."...!!...LOL

...are a nonsense - and legally confusing...


I say again....'If you don't want to sell something - don't offer it for sale - and don't take money for it....'....But, if you DO sell it - then you should live with it, imo.


I seriously question whether a TOS that contradictory would have any standing in law.

.

 

[airwav]

:hehe: This is a very interesting thead.

First off, I think that Neustar was wrong about grabbing your name itits.us for their said reason. I think that it is difficult to get one of the 7 names from your domain name, unless there was accompanying content. If you recall not long ago Ebay had commercials with lots of "its" running around...could refer to that...

I think Neustar would have been more within their rights to take your name because of the fraud that you committed acquiring that domain.

When purchasing a .US domain from GD you have these options to click:
1. I am a US citizen
2. I am a permanent resident of the US
3. Incorporated or organized in the US
4. Foreign entity doing business in the US
5. Foreign entity doing business in the US

Since you are not a Foreign entity you committed fraud on your registration...


BTW, run don't walk to your nearest registar...iTITS.net is available...
:hehe:

 

[npcomplete]

...snip...
Since you are not a Foreign entity you committed fraud on your registration...
...snip...

It would appear that there were two errors, not one in the contract, both on the part of the buyer. The other was not exercising due diligence before clicking the "I agree" button. When the buyer clicked that button he/she created a legal agreement between them and the registrar. They violated this contract by not being a US person, and by not abiding by the terms of service that state that "tits" was not allowed.

The legal test is whether it would be a violation in the eyes of a regular person reading the domain. Obviously "entity" passes the test, and would in a court of law. "itits" does not pass this test.

I suggest flip this thread over the the legal forum. There is an obligation in any contract between buyer and seller. If a seller has clearly stated terms in that contract, then the buyer is legally obligated to obey the terms.

Marc

 

[DomainTalker]

Gents, I've accepted I was wrong in purchasing a .us domain, as a non-US citizen etc....So, that's a given. But, I - and my citizenship - are not the issue here.


Remember - that was not the reason they gave for snatching it....Using the word 'Tits' was the reason...

The issues I, and others, raise in this thread would still remain valid (and unacceptable, imo) - even IF I were a US citizen in this case.

.

:

BTW, run don't walk to your nearest registar...iTITS.net is available...
:hehe:

I never thought I'd EVER say this....but....


...I think I'm over 'TITS' for the moment, mate....:D

.

 

[Dave_Z]

Feel free to correct me if I missed something here.

NSI's subsequent contract was subsequently upheld in one suit:

http://davezan.com/sizevsnsi.txt

Skip right to parts II and III. While this doesn't necessarily mean a court in a
different jurisdiction will adopt everything stated there, it'll at least give you
an idea or so what to expect.

Unfortunately it appears Go Daddy did everything as agreed upon according to
the terms of your contract.

 

[npcomplete]

NSI's subsequent contract was subsequently upheld in one suit:

http://davezan.com/sizevsnsi.txt

Skip right to parts II and III. While this doesn't necessarily mean a court in a
different jurisdiction will adopt everything stated there, it'll at least give you
an idea or so what to expect.

Unfortunately it appears Go Daddy did everything as agreed upon according to
the terms of your contract.

Thanks Dave. Since count 4 (breach of contract) was dismissed without prejudice based on jurisdictional matters, do you know if it was refiled ?

In any case, a refiled case would be over "reg fee". That part of the decision cracked me up. (paraphrase): Sorry we screwed up your life, so here is the $10 to cover the suit.

Typical. The registry is responsible for reg fee.

Marc

 

[cache]

I bet a lot of .us names have the seven wonder words in them. Someone need to
scan all registered domains and publish the regged domains that have the 7 sub-strings.

Neustar then will be notified, we will see how many Neustar can take back.