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question My Second Attempt on a Copyright/Trademark Question concerning Sports Leagues like the NFL & NBA.

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I origially was going to post a similar question but then I used Google and thought I saw the clear cut answer but now I'm not so sure based on someone elses Namepros post. Specifically if I register and try to sell any domains with NFL or NBA as the first word followed by a name (noun), like for example, NBAopinions.com, NBA Notebook.com or NBAAnything.com, that is 100% Copyright/Trademark Violation correct? Would appreciate any reiteration of the rule on this. Thank You. PS I know the usual rule: If you think something is in legal violation don't do it.
 
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NFL not for less ?

NBA No bang Angle?
 
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One of the things people say they hate about lawyers is along the lines of "You pay them hundreds of dollars for a piece of paper which says, 'it depends'."

The problem is that there are typically facts beyond the question which might lead to one answer or another.

Take something simple, like "Is it legal to kill another person?"

Now, most of the time, if someone asks you that question, you'd probably say "no" and move away from whomever is asking it.

But, of course, there are all kinds of situations where killing someone is legal or affirmatively defensible.

The context matters. If I see my neighbor heading out with a kitchen knife asking me that question is a very different question than if I see him in an army uniform heading off on a combat deployment.

For questions of this type, I typically take into account that this is Namepros, and that most of the questions here relate to the activity of registering domain names for resale. That involves making several contextual assumptions. But, for whatever reason, there are folks who seem to get upset if I don't state every contextual assumption, in the effort to provide at least some clarity beyond "it depends" for a presumed audience of folks who are primarily interested in registering and holding domain names for resale.

Mind you, I post here when I'm doing stuff like waiting for my tea water to boil or waiting for the oven to reach 425F before putting my bread in it. That means that I may not state every assumption, condition, exception, or special case. That also means that general answers here may not apply to your specific facts.

That said, I can remember how annoyed I was a few years ago when I had a bicycle accident, hit my elbow pretty hard, and had a pain on the outer side of my elbow for weeks after that. The pain would not go away, in fact it was getting worse and affecting my grip and arm strength and I figured I probably broke something in the crash. I went to the doctor who sent me to an orthopedic specialist.

Think about this for a minute. This orthopedic specialist has years of special training and experience and does nothing all day long for a living other than look at people who have some kind of ache, pain or injury. I sat down and started to tell him the story of how I hit my elbow and what kind of pain I had and he cut me off, looked me in the eye and said, "You have lateral epicondylitis or 'tennis elbow'. I want you to wear this brace, take two Motrin, twice a day, for two weeks, and then go to physical therapy."

I was kind of annoyed. He didn't want to take an x-ray, he didn't want to do an MRI, he didn't want to do much of an examination, and he didn't want to listen to the rest of my story. He cut me off again and I realized that it was exactly like the sorts of situations where someone will come to me with a problem or question, go on for about 20 minutes about it, tell me what they think the answer is, and tell me what they think I should do, and I can hardly get a word in edgewise . Usually, I'll just turn off and wait to say, "Okay, how much do I owe you?"

The thing is, this guy sees older middle aged guys come in, rubbing their upper forearm, holding their hand a certain way, and feeling a sharp pain on the outside of their elbow probably two dozen times a week, if not more. Don't like his opinion? Go find someone else.

Now, can you find cases where someone was running a legit blog or commentary or some other situation in which they were making what is called "nominative use" of someone else's trademark? Sure. You can't call your business "Volkswagen" but if you are an auto mechanic, and you repair Volkswagen automobiles, then you can put on your sign "We repair Volkswagens".

But that is usually not the situation where someone comes along and says, "Is it okay to register a domain name with the word 'Volkswagen' in it?" In the context of this forum, no, it's not okay.

I happen to have a client whose initials are the same as a sports league. Can he keep his domain name? Sure.

But if I say, "no, there are dozens of cases involving league acronyms", some wise guy will come along and say, "What if my name is Neil Brian Abbot and I register 'NBA' as a personal site?" Well, sure, that's fine. That is why, for example, Japan Airlines lost the JAL.com domain dispute to a guy named John A. Letelier. Domainers regard Uzi Nissan as a legend for spending a huge amount of money time and effort keeping the domain name Nissan.com and never making a dime in return for it. Unless you happen to share a name with a famous trademark, then that situation is never going to apply or be useful to you. But, good for Uzi, he spent a lifetime and went to the great hereafter telling the car company to stuff it.

With that out of the way, I'm just going to drop this here:

DomainCaseDateDecision
nbafantasy.comWIPO D2023-43282023-12-11Transfer
nbatb.comWIPO D2023-25812023-08-24Transfer
nbaplus.comWIPO D2022-12312022-06-10Transfer
nbafit.comWIPO D2013-00112013-02-23Transfer
mynba.comWIPO D2000-16262001-02-14Transfer


DomainCaseDateDecision
nflticketexchange.comNAF 15128722013-10-07Transferred
nflpaonline.comNAF 14782132013-01-31Transferred
bet-nfl-online-gambling.comWIPO D2008-20062009-03-02Transfer
nflnetwork.comWIPO D2006-14402006-12-29Transfer
nflpa.comWIPO D2005-02342005-05-13Transfer



DomainCaseDateDecision
fifacoin.comWIPO D2025-23422025-08-25Transfer
fifawc26.comWIPO D2023-23572023-08-01Transfer
fifa.plusWIPO D2022-08452022-05-16Transfer
fifahospitality.comWIPO D2021-04672021-04-27Transfer
fifaplus.comWIPO D2021-06222021-04-15Transfer
fifashop.comWIPO D2020-25052020-11-18Transfer
fifastore.comWIPO D2020-25062020-11-10Transfer
fifa2022.comWIPO D2019-03902019-04-19Transfer
fifa.netWIPO D2016-23102017-01-24Transfer
fifafootballmuseum.comWIPO D2014-15922014-10-31Transfer
fifa11.comWIPO D2010-17172010-12-02Transfer
fifaworldcuptickets.comWIPO D2009-13722009-11-26Transfer
fifaworldcup2010.comWIPO D2009-12322009-10-28Transfer
fifa.tvWIPO DTV2001-00312002-02-27Transfer
fifaworldcup.netWIPO D2001-04242001-05-30Transfer
fifatickets.comWIPO D2001-00702001-04-04Transfer
fifa-world-cup.comWIPO D2000-03632000-08-07Transfer


...and ask what you think.
 
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Now, can you find cases where someone was running a legit blog or commentary or some other situation in which they were making what is called "nominative use" of someone else's trademark? Sure. You can't call your business "Volkswagen" but if you are an auto mechanic, and you repair Volkswagen automobiles, then you can put on your sign "We repair Volkswagens".

But that is usually not the situation where someone comes along and says, "Is it okay to register a domain name with the word 'Volkswagen' in it?" In the context of this forum, no, it's not okay.
How about using the company name as a springboard into a completely different niche?

For example, the sites below intentionally reference โ€œShark Tankโ€ without competing with itโ€”Shark Tank seeks investors and attention, while these sites simply aim to drive clicks to affiliate links for the products discussed.

SharkTank.store, SharkTankRecap.com, AllSharkTankProducts.com.
 
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Hi

great story @jberryhill
btw: is your elbow feeling better?

imoโ€ฆ
 
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For example, the sites below

Yep, there are fan sites, affiliate sites, all kinds of nominative uses. One thing to be careful of is looking around at things others do, and assuming it is okay. I typically drive the speed limit on highways, and it is kind of amazing that most of the traffic, at least in my area, exceeds the speed limit. When you are the one person pulled over by the police for speeding, nobody is going to care if everyone else is doing it.

There are a lot more trademark violations going on than actions to stop them, that's for sure. Some trademark owners cooperate and encourage a fan ecosystem, and some don't. If I have a yard sale this weekend and write "Versace" in ink on a white t-shirt and sell it for two bucks, nobody from Milan is going to care. Again, some trademark owners, or at least their outside attorneys on retainer, are rabid about their marks, and some don't really care about violations unless it rises to a level that might have some measurable impact on their revenue. It's about making money, not proving legal points.

Here's the weird thing, and I think there is only one UDRP decision in existence that makes this point... It's okay, within certain limits, to run a fan site or a third party retailer site and use the mark in the domain name. You see this all of the time with, say, auto dealerships. SmithHonda.com is a Honda dealership in Idaho, for example.

Now, SmithHonda.com, as an authorized dealer probably also has license restrictions about what domain names it can use, and so forth. But, in the general case, if it is okay for a dealer to use, say, UsedHondas.com, it is kind of inconsistent to say that you, a domainer, can't registered UsedHondas.com for the purpose of selling the domain name to someone who is a legitimate seller of used Hondas. As I mentioned, there is one UDRP decision, which I can't recall offhand, which made that point, but I can tell you that if you have UsedHondas.tld and you are not actually selling used Hondas, you are going to lose a dispute.

btw: is your elbow feeling better?

I did what the doctor said and it worked like a charm. I also do grip and weight exercises while I'm otherwise vegetating on the couch, and it hasn't come back.

I also have to say that as a token of appreciation for winning a UDRP dispute, one of my clients sent me one of those Theragun muscle massager guns and it really does a job on a lot of aches and pains after cycling.
 
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One of the things people say they hate about lawyers is along the lines of "You pay them hundreds of dollars for a piece of paper which says, 'it depends'."

The problem is that there are typically facts beyond the question which might lead to one answer or another.

Take something simple, like "Is it legal to kill another person?"

Now, most of the time, if someone asks you that question, you'd probably say "no" and move away from whomever is asking it.

But, of course, there are all kinds of situations where killing someone is legal or affirmatively defensible.

The context matters. If I see my neighbor heading out with a kitchen knife asking me that question is a very different question than if I see him in an army uniform heading off on a combat deployment.

For questions of this type, I typically take into account that this is Namepros, and that most of the questions here relate to the activity of registering domain names for resale. That involves making several contextual assumptions. But, for whatever reason, there are folks who seem to get upset if I don't state every contextual assumption, in the effort to provide at least some clarity beyond "it depends" for a presumed audience of folks who are primarily interested in registering and holding domain names for resale.

Mind you, I post here when I'm doing stuff like waiting for my tea water to boil or waiting for the oven to reach 425F before putting my bread in it. That means that I may not state every assumption, condition, exception, or special case. That also means that general answers here may not apply to your specific facts.

That said, I can remember how annoyed I was a few years ago when I had a bicycle accident, hit my elbow pretty hard, and had a pain on the outer side of my elbow for weeks after that. The pain would not go away, in fact it was getting worse and affecting my grip and arm strength and I figured I probably broke something in the crash. I went to the doctor who sent me to an orthopedic specialist.

Think about this for a minute. This orthopedic specialist has years of special training and experience and does nothing all day long for a living other than look at people who have some kind of ache, pain or injury. I sat down and started to tell him the story of how I hit my elbow and what kind of pain I had and he cut me off, looked me in the eye and said, "You have lateral epicondylitis or 'tennis elbow'. I want you to wear this brace, take two Motrin, twice a day, for two weeks, and then go to physical therapy."

I was kind of annoyed. He didn't want to take an x-ray, he didn't want to do an MRI, he didn't want to do much of an examination, and he didn't want to listen to the rest of my story. He cut me off again and I realized that it was exactly like the sorts of situations where someone will come to me with a problem or question, go on for about 20 minutes about it, tell me what they think the answer is, and tell me what they think I should do, and I can hardly get a word in edgewise . Usually, I'll just turn off and wait to say, "Okay, how much do I owe you?"

The thing is, this guy sees older middle aged guys come in, rubbing their upper forearm, holding their hand a certain way, and feeling a sharp pain on the outside of their elbow probably two dozen times a week, if not more. Don't like his opinion? Go find someone else.

Now, can you find cases where someone was running a legit blog or commentary or some other situation in which they were making what is called "nominative use" of someone else's trademark? Sure. You can't call your business "Volkswagen" but if you are an auto mechanic, and you repair Volkswagen automobiles, then you can put on your sign "We repair Volkswagens".

But that is usually not the situation where someone comes along and says, "Is it okay to register a domain name with the word 'Volkswagen' in it?" In the context of this forum, no, it's not okay.

I happen to have a client whose initials are the same as a sports league. Can he keep his domain name? Sure.

But if I say, "no, there are dozens of cases involving league acronyms", some wise guy will come along and say, "What if my name is Neil Brian Abbot and I register 'NBA' as a personal site?" Well, sure, that's fine. That is why, for example, Japan Airlines lost the JAL.com domain dispute to a guy named John A. Letelier. Domainers regard Uzi Nissan as a legend for spending a huge amount of money time and effort keeping the domain name Nissan.com and never making a dime in return for it. Unless you happen to share a name with a famous trademark, then that situation is never going to apply or be useful to you. But, good for Uzi, he spent a lifetime and went to the great hereafter telling the car company to stuff it.

With that out of the way, I'm just going to drop this here:

DomainCaseDateDecision
nbafantasy.comWIPO D2023-43282023-12-11Transfer
nbatb.comWIPO D2023-25812023-08-24Transfer
nbaplus.comWIPO D2022-12312022-06-10Transfer
nbafit.comWIPO D2013-00112013-02-23Transfer
mynba.comWIPO D2000-16262001-02-14Transfer


DomainCaseDateDecision
nflticketexchange.comNAF 15128722013-10-07Transferred
nflpaonline.comNAF 14782132013-01-31Transferred
bet-nfl-online-gambling.comWIPO D2008-20062009-03-02Transfer
nflnetwork.comWIPO D2006-14402006-12-29Transfer
nflpa.comWIPO D2005-02342005-05-13Transfer



DomainCaseDateDecision
fifacoin.comWIPO D2025-23422025-08-25Transfer
fifawc26.comWIPO D2023-23572023-08-01Transfer
fifa.plusWIPO D2022-08452022-05-16Transfer
fifahospitality.comWIPO D2021-04672021-04-27Transfer
fifaplus.comWIPO D2021-06222021-04-15Transfer
fifashop.comWIPO D2020-25052020-11-18Transfer
fifastore.comWIPO D2020-25062020-11-10Transfer
fifa2022.comWIPO D2019-03902019-04-19Transfer
fifa.netWIPO D2016-23102017-01-24Transfer
fifafootballmuseum.comWIPO D2014-15922014-10-31Transfer
fifa11.comWIPO D2010-17172010-12-02Transfer
fifaworldcuptickets.comWIPO D2009-13722009-11-26Transfer
fifaworldcup2010.comWIPO D2009-12322009-10-28Transfer
fifa.tvWIPO DTV2001-00312002-02-27Transfer
fifaworldcup.netWIPO D2001-04242001-05-30Transfer
fifatickets.comWIPO D2001-00702001-04-04Transfer
fifa-world-cup.comWIPO D2000-03632000-08-07Transfer


...and ask what you think.
Appreciate you taking the time to answer but in this case, no pun intended, what does the decision "Transfer" mean? Does transfer mean the registrar gave up "ownership" or does it mean he was allowed to sell the domain and make a profit? Thanks for clarifying this.
 
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Appreciate you taking the time to answer but in this case, no pun intended, what does the decision "Transfer" mean? Does transfer mean the registrar gave up "ownership" or does it mean he was allowed to sell the domain and make a profit? Thanks for clarifying this.
It means the domain was transferred to the Complainant. Do not pass go, do not collect any money at all. Not even the registration fee.
 
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It means the domain was transferred to the Complainant. Do not pass go, do not collect any money at all. Not even the registration fee.
That's what I thought, thanks.
 
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I origially was going to post a similar question but then I used Google and thought I saw the clear cut answer but now I'm not so sure based on someone elses Namepros post. Specifically if I register and try to sell any domains with NFL or NBA as the first word followed by a name (noun), like for example, NBAopinions.com, NBA Notebook.com or NBAAnything.com, that is 100% Copyright/Trademark Violation correct? Would appreciate any reiteration of the rule on this. Thank You. PS I know the usual rule: If you think something is in legal violation don't do it.
Just avoid domains like this.

Outside the TM issues, there is no demand in general for these types of domains.

If you have limited resources, not wasting money on crap is even more important.

Brad
 
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I was going to register NFLJournal.com but thought this looks too easy. Then I thought OK is the word NFL Copyrighted/trademarked even if it's used in front of Journal for a website where someone writes about NFL games. I was about to post a question on this when I looked it up on Google and it said "No way Jose". That would have been the end but then I saw someone on this site trying to sell some websites with the word Netflix and Twitter in the first letters and I thought maybe he knows something Google doesn't know. So I rewrote my original question and I Get it. If something seems illegal, don't do it even if you don't know if it is.
 
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I was going to register NFLJournal.com but thought this looks too easy. Then I thought OK is the word NFL Copyrighted/trademarked even if it's used in front of Journal for a website where someone writes about NFL games. I was about to post a question on this when I looked it up on Google and it said "No way Jose". That would have been the end but then I saw someone on this site trying to sell some websites with the word Netflix and Twitter in the first letters and I thought maybe he knows something Google doesn't know. So I rewrote my original question and I Get it. If something seems illegal, don't do it even if you don't know if it is.
Buying a domain is a low bar. All you need is around $10 bucks.

You see all types of terrible domains, including clear TM issues, being offered for sale.

Just use common sense. When in doubt, I would pass.

Brad
 
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Agreed
 
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Appreciate you taking the time to answer but in this case, no pun intended, what does the decision "Transfer" mean?

Please pick one and click on the case number in the table. Those are links to the decisions themselves.
 
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Please pick one and click on the case number in the table. Those are links to the decisions themselves.
Nah I get it. Just needed to know how "Transfered" was used. Thanks for your insight.
 
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