Microsoft in Trouble

[Zeeble]

I read the Times today that MS is in the process of being fined by over 400 million euros for breachng competition laws.

 

[LeeRyder]

Im beginning to think that you like trying to irritate people

hey, I'm sory if that irritated you man. that was not the goal. moreso, it was to get you to step back and think.. "is Lee an asshat or is he right".

See, in my beliefs about this, the USA is for and above the other world economies. this can be proven outright. And, while I do not believe (nor do I desire) that the USA could exist in isolationism.. I also feel that..if push came to shove.. the USA could be the ultimate winner in such a scenario.
You would call the our "ego" or whatever..but the numbers dont lie. And, I would also like to note that my saying so is not in any way putting down the EU or any part of it.. it is just saying "blue is blue" if you will.

So again, my apologies if you got offended or annoyed or whatever.

I had been studying Economics for 2 years. We have done research into both the European and US economies, and I am sorry to say that I think, and even my Economics lecturer thinks that you are wrong.

Well I feel your economics teacher is wrong. He simply doesnt grasp the sheer economic might of this country. If I can ask, what is he/she basing that on?

 

[Dave_Z]

Zeeble, are these the ones you saw in Times?

http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/2005/04/04/ap1923176.html

http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/2004/12/20/ap1720163.html

 

[armstrong]

Open-source programs led by the Linux operating system pose perhaps the most serious threat to Microsoft because their code is freely shared, while Microsoft closely guards its source code.

What would happen if someone discovers opensource code within MS source?

 

[LeeRyder]

What would happen if someone discovers opensource code within MS source?

lol, then i suspect Bill's lawyers will be contacting satan to renegotiate that contract :P

 

[Dave_Z]

lol, then i suspect Bill's lawyers will be contacting satan to renegotiate that contract :P

'Til hell freezes. :hehe:

 

[DN Tycoon]

I'm not going to argue over and over about EU vs the US, and the fact that there seems to be a few here that "hate" the US for whatever reason. I will however bring some good reading to everyones attention..

http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/
http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/pdf/EU_vs_USA_English.pdf

 

[Zeeble]

Hi Davezan, sorry I think that those were not the ones. It was very much a simple article saying that the EU commision was fining MS for breaching competition laws.

In response to the above post, that first article is true, however it only shows half of the story and is flawed in many ways. GDP per capita is higher in the US, due to the fact that there are many more super rich people, wich makes the average much higher. The fact is that many more people in the US live below the poverty line than the mentioned countries such as UK, Germany and France.
The second link just brought up a blank page, GDP per capita shows very little information about a countrys' econmic situation, it is like having a book, reading the first 2 lines and guessing the rest of the storyline from that.

 

[LeeRyder]

zeeble that second link disproves everything you've just stated. give it time to load..it's a pdf page. and I must admit, even shocking to me to see the disparity between the USA and the EU.

Poor Poor EUians lol. I knew it was rough..but wow.

 

[Zeeble]

Please continue the economic discussion here guys:

http://namepros.com/showthread.php?t=85201

 

[zaros64]

I heard microsoft was worth 400 billion dollars.. they don't need to care about getting fined a few million lol... they can easily make that back(not that they need to lol)

 

[Zeeble]

I don't they are worth that much. Bill Gates is worth £25bn (inc. his shares in MS) MS is probably worth closer to £100bn, and has revenues of about £5 bn per year, so 400million euros is a fairly large amount even for MS. It could seriously eat away at their profits.

 

[JMJ]

400 million isn't alot of money to microsoft. Hell Sean Combs is worth that and he's just a Rap Producer. And on another note why is it that Microsoft is considered to be the bad guy when it's the "consumers choice" to use it. Noone is making me use microsofts products right now. I choose to do so because thats what I'm use to. If you don't like it then don't use it, simple as that. They have the money to produce what the consumer needs at an affordable cost so why comlpain? Auto makers have been cometing for years and they seem to not have these issues. If you can make a comparable product with its own bells and whistles for a comparable price then do so and you can compete. If not find another gold mine.

 

[DN Tycoon]

Just a reply to the last post.

The biggest reason people dislike Microsoft is because it has done so well and has such a big monopoly over the market. Being #1 has it's good and bads and unfortunatly being #1 means you have alot of those who dislike you for that fact and that could stem from jealousy, insecurity and other types of negative feelings. You are right in the fact that if you don't like it don't buy/use it and look for an alternative, as far as Microsoft goes most people buy pre-built computers so the OS is already installed and there is nothing left to worry about. I'm rambling on now...just wanted to add some insight...thanks

 

[octobus]

Microsoft has monopoly power in the OS market. Everyone with basic economics studies should know that in overhwelming majority of cases when a company has +90% market share, the market is not working as it should be. Microsoft has this power and they have used dirty means to preserve their monopoly power.

Not only have they cornered the OS market to themselves, but they have expanded to other software fields as well. Anybody remember how Netscape was pushed aside by embedding IE with Windows? Real Player and Media Player? Ad-ware removal tool being the latest move from Microsoft.

Please don't imply that socialist europeans are messing around with US companies, as Lee Ryder already did. Microsoft broke EUs competition laws and therefore they have been ordered to pay fine and supply an alternative version of Windows without the embedded Media Player.

This is nothing compared to what the good capitalist Americans tried to. Have you already fogotten how Microsoft was almost divided into multiple seperate companies for breaking US anti-trust laws.

 

[LeeRyder]

Please don't imply that socialist europeans are messing around with US companies, as Lee Ryder already did.

Hold it right there bucko..

I didnt imply that, I said subsidizing the EU member states. BIG Difference.

This is nothing compared to what the good capitalist Americans tried to

You mean all those capitalist corporations the EU business' are trying to emulate? Or like how France has laws saying how many french songs must be played because the US music was dominating the radio?
Free speech doesnt exist in the eu sadly.

 

[octobus]

Can't wait to get into an argument. lol

ya know...if Europe keeps pissing off American companies.. be really funny to see microsoft revoke all licenses in that area, pull out of business there and watch europe slip back to 1988 lol

You did not?

You mean all those capitalist corporations the EU business' are trying to emulate? Or like how France has laws saying how many french songs must be played because the US music was dominating the radio?
Free speech doesnt exist in the eu sadly.

I compared the actions what the US and EU have taken against Microsoft's monopoly abuse. But your not commenting it, anyways. My message was that the actions undertaken by the US federal state and individual states, are or have been a lot more threathneining to Microsoft's corporate integrity.

What does this have to be french regulations on music played in the radio?
So there isn't free speech in the EU because french broadcasters have a quota for english language music. First of all France is not the EU. There happens to be 24 other member states too. Sorry, you lost me.

 

[brianfast]

I hope linux overtakes MSSOFT

 

[Zeeble]

Lee, you DID imply that the EU was only targetting MS to help itself and because its a US company.
As Octobus has said, MS has been unfair in the way that it has dealt with the market that it operates in. MS has a monopoly BECAUSE we are so used to MS products. We start learning on MS OS when we are at school, and use it (most people) for the rest of our lives.
That is against competition laws, which have been put in place to PROTECT us.

IMO, more free speech exists in the EU than in the US ATM due to the "anti-terror" laws that Bush has introduced.

Edit: just remembered, Lee has put me on his ignore list because I am "ignorant".

 

[DN Tycoon]

IMO, more free speech exists in the EU than in the US ATM due to the "anti-terror" laws that Bush has introduced.

Wait a minute here, I know this is your opinion but it is far from the truth. The US constitution guarantees freedom of speech and expression in unambiguous terms: "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". No "except....", or "...unless it serves the public interest".

The articles dealing with freedom of speech and the press in the Charter of Fundamental Rights provide no such guarantee. Indeed, they come close to a guarantee that speech will not be free. The EU in the twenty-first century cannot play in the same league as the US in the eighteenth.

Also to get back on track...what bothers me about the whole Microsoft deal is there are no other major or legitamate companies stepping up to compete with the Windows OS. I think the EU fine on Microsoft is absurd, it's great that they are protecting the little guys but I think they went overboard trying to prove something to someone or something out there...It's not as if they are the tobacco companies who kill people left and right...they make software..just some thoughts

 

[Zeeble]

But, the EU has already fined MS before, and told MS to change its ways. This did not happen so something more drastic needs to be done.

IMO, if MS was a company in a physical industry they would already have been put out of business by the competition commision in this country.

 

[octobus]

Let's not get into freedom of speech issues here. It has nothing to do with the original topic. Zeeble, you're wrong to point that US weaker freedom of speech.

This is the first occasion when the EU has given a slap to Microsoft. On the other hand the US has done it or tried to restrain Microsoft on a several occasions. So how come is the EU suddenly the bad guy here?

 

[DN Tycoon]

EU isn't the bad guy...the fine is just too much and it's as if they are trying to get media attention on the subject for whatever reason. I don't have all the facts I j ust know that the fine is absurd even if it is the second time.

 

[Zeeble]

Let's not get into freedom of speech issues here. It has nothing to do with the original topic. Zeeble, you're wrong to point that US weaker freedom of speech.

ok, fair enough. I will stay away from that topic.

I don't think that 400 million euros is too much. If everybody else has to abide by the law (very stringent laws, put in place to protect us) then so should MS. They knew that the last fine of 60 million was nothing, and they were more than willing to pay inorder to continue EU operations. This 400 million will force them to think again. I can see where you are coming from though Tycoon, I suppose that maybe they should have imposed another fine before this amount, around the 150 million point.

 

[DN Tycoon]

Not to mention the EU needs to pursue other routes besides fines to thwart MS and others from acting as they do. Another part of this discussion would be is the EU doing this for revenge out at the US for it's foreign policy decisions. If you think about it the EU has dealt with it's own EU-based monopolies in a much more accomadating manner. Their is much anti-American sentiment among the EU because of the US foreign policy decisions, not to say MS is innocent because the law is the law (as we know it) and action should always be taken to protect those laws and the people they protect.

 

[Peter]

DN TYCOON if you beleive the EU is doing this because of the US foreign policy why do you beleive the US are trying to take them down a peg or 2 or do they not likle their own policy as well.

There is no point fining a company such as microsoft a couple of million, microsoft would just pay that out of the interest their assets accrued, you have to make a fine a fitting amount compared to their yearly income. If you do not thebn there is no insentive for them to change their ways and the case would be a complete waste of time and effort.