LLLL.net COUNTDOWN

[-REECE-]

New Member Disclaimer: Four letter domain names are a relatively new investment category that is only beginning to gain traction in Dotcom. This domaining sector offers potentially larger returns than traditional revenue or traffic based domain names, however with this investment opportunity comes extravagant risk.

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It was only a matter of time... First King Com. Then .CN fell. And now... I present to you LLLL.net

This thread is designed to elicit discussion about LLLL.nets. You're encouraged to post anything you feel is relevant to LLLL.nets in this thread. This includes sales information, new regs, ...

Feb 05, 2008: All quad premium LLLL.nets are registered

 

[ODST.com]

todays grabs @ snap for me:

tirf . net
ubec .net

Great names

 

[Semtex]

Suppose an enduser already owns the quad premium LLLL.com -- it's a good alternative.. I'm not invested in .net at all myself at present, however I do believe the approach has merits.

I'd rather have 100 quad premium LLLL.net anyday over 1 bad LLL.net.

I agree Reece, but there is no sense in trying to get snoop to agree with you, unless you admit that you are always wrong and he is always right.

 

[snoop]

Suppose an enduser already owns the quad premium LLLL.com -- it's a good alternative.. I'm not invested in .net at all myself at present, however I do believe the approach has merits.

I'd rather have 100 quad premium LLLL.net anyday over 1 bad LLL.net.

What is the chance of that happening, out of all the quad premium llll.net's registered how many are reported as sold to endusers each month?

 

[-REECE-]

More than lll.net last time I checked.

One of the large holders regularly sends me spam asking if I want to buy their .nets -- I guess I'll have to ask them one of these days as I'm curious myself to be honest.

What is the chance of that happening, out of all the quad premium llll.net's registered how many are reported as sold to endusers each month?

 

[snoop]

More than lll.net last time I checked.

Wouldn't really be surprising as there is 1/26th the number.

 

[-REECE-]

And prices are 100+ times lower on an LLLL.net -- more than enough to account for several years of renewal fees and still maintain a similar, if not higher chance "per dollar" of landing an enduser sale at X dollars.

The high price of LLL.nets forces end user quotes into the 4 digits... Many people are content to sell LLLL.nets for low-mid hundreds, which seems to be where most end user's budgets are at present.

Wouldn't really be surprising as there is 1/26th the number.

 

[snoop]

And prices are 100+ times lower on an LLLL.net -- more than enough to account for several years of renewal fees and still maintain a similar, if not higher chance "per dollar" of landing an enduser sale at X dollars.

I don't see it personally, the holding costs are massive in comparison to the value of the name, it is a similar predicament to low quality LLLL.com. I think people are buying to speculate mainly rather than selling to endusers.

 

[-REECE-]

I'm sure that's the case for most people Snoop, however I am aware of a few domainers who are making a conscious effort to proactively reach out who've done better than break even in both markets without resorting to selling to other domainers. I really do think premium LLLL.nets are a better investment than low end LLLL.coms -- much lower renewal costs (at some registrars) and a whole lot more potential endusers.

I wouldn't buy either solely to speculate at this time, however if I were to enter one of the markets to hunt down endusers, it'd be LLLL.nets. For those who like to develop (eg. me), there's a lot more options with most higher quality LLLL.nets than bad LLLL.coms as an added bonus.

I don't see it personally, the holding costs are massive in comparison to the value of the name, it is a similar predicament to low quality LLLL.com. I think people are buying to speculate mainly rather than selling to endusers.

 

[krx]

Sorry to be dense but could someone give me examples of domain purchases/investments that are not speculative?

 

[-REECE-]

Domains -- not anything at present imho. Something which produces revenue would likely be less speculative provided you weren't buying it at an insane revenue multiple.

Investments -- something guaranteed by the government.

Sorry to be dense but could someone give me examples of domain purchases/investments that are not speculative?

No risk, no reward :]

 

[snoop]

Sorry to be dense but could someone give me examples of domain purchases/investments that are not speculative?

Here is a definition of "speculation" from Google,

"Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit."

I wouldn't consider traffic domains or buying for genuine enduser appeal to be in that category.

Speculation I would see as people buying simply because they think the value of the name will go up.

 

[Semtex]

Here is a definition of "speculation" from Google,

"Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit."

I wouldn't consider traffic domains or buying for genuine enduser appeal to be in that category.

Speculation I would see as people buying simply because they think the value of the name will go up.

Considering the market we are in now, basically every other person in the world is worse off then they were last year. Once this wave of financial despair moves past, we will see investing going up as well. When people start making more money, they start spending more money. I'm not saying that bad LLLL's will be worth $XXX next year, but I would be willing to bet that they won't be $10 next year either. I just sold 2 bad LLLL names that I bought for reg fee last year. I sold them both for $100 a piece. So in other words your minimum $3 story that you preach about all the time doesn't always hold up.

 

[snoop]

Considering the market we are in now, basically every other person in the world is worse off then they were last year. Once this wave of financial despair moves past, we will see investing going up as well. When people start making more money, they start spending more money. I'm not saying that bad LLLL's will be worth $XXX next year, but I would be willing to bet that they won't be $10 next year either. I just sold 2 bad LLLL names that I bought for reg fee last year. I sold them both for $100 a piece. So in other words your minimum $3 story that you preach about all the time doesn't always hold up.

A large number of economies are just going into recession, I wouldn't expect any quick turn around for the domain market. It wouldn't surprise me much if the domain market was lower than it is now in 12 months. I wouldn't want to try to predict this though I'd say it is unwise to bank on it going up any time soon. Buying low quality LLLL.com's now is basically like spinning the roulette wheel.

The last time the domain industry had a bust it took around 2 years to find its low point (from mid 2000 to mid 2002). The current market has been seeing falls for 12 months. This bust will either be shorter or longer, don't ask me which as I'd just be guessing, anything could happen.

 

[krx]

Here is a definition of "speculation" from Google,

"Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit."

I wouldn't consider traffic domains or buying for genuine enduser appeal to be in that category.

Speculation I would see as people buying simply because they think the value of the name will go up.

I'm curious to know what you mean by "genuine enduser appeal"? Because as we all know having 3 or 4 prospects in mind before you buy a domain doesn't guarantee a good sale. Also, greater upfront investment is required for any domain with such clear enduser appeal. So greater likelihood of a sale comes at reduced ROI. But of course even then there are no guarantees...

Same is true of traffic domains in the sense that they don't come cheap - at least not those with demonstrable traffic. If it isn't demonstrable then you are speculating that keyword search volume can be converted into actual traffic - and that that traffic can in turn be monetized. That's speculative. To the extent that rev from a domain is a certainty, you pay for that security upfront, in the price you pay for the domain. It may be years before you turn a net profit (strangely like LLLL.net/coms). Not to mention the fact that ad revs are down now too. So people who 1 or 2 years ago bought traffic domains at 3 to 5 times annual revenue may never recoup their initial investment, let alone turn a profit. Can you ever be sure that domains with demonstrable traffic/rev will be worth the price you pay for them?

Seems to me the degree of speculation can be reduced through greater upfront expenditure but not eliminated - and yet nonetheless real risks remain since no one can control or predict all the relevant variables at work in turning a profit on a domain.

 

[snoop]

I'm curious to know what you mean by "genuine enduser appeal"? Because as we all know having 3 or 4 prospects in mind before you buy a domain doesn't guarantee a good sale. Also, greater upfront investment is required for any domain with such clear enduser appeal. So greater likelihood of a sale comes at reduced ROI. But of course even then there are no guarantees...

I'm talking about portfolios which generate consistent revenue from enduser sales. If you are getting consisent enduser sales and making an overall profit after all costs (on a portfolio wide basis) you are in the right boat in my view.

Same is true of traffic domains in the sense that they don't come cheap - at least not those with demonstrable traffic.

I'm not really sure what you mean by they don't come cheap, it is what it is. They sell on a multiples just like any investment and multiples vary widely according to quality.

Can you ever be sure that domains with demonstrable traffic/rev will be worth the price you pay for them?

No, that is the same with any investment, like I said before, "investing" does not mean "zero risk".

 

[DLarkin84]

Is this real? People are still hoping to make money from these buyouts? It is over, even the people who participated in the LLLL.com buyout in the main have lost money. Don't throw good money after bad with these names.

i was joking i really doubt that a LLLL.net buyout will occur. what i ment was that i wish prices would rise so i can make somw money.

 

[Nem0]

i was joking i really doubt that a LLLL.net buyout will occur. what i ment was that i wish prices would rise so i can make somw money.

I think everybody 'got it' except for the cancer that I knew would inevitably spread over here.

 

[dropscripts]

I have a few for sale, $15 each

uroh.net
uruh.net
urih.net

PM me.

 

[krx]

I'm talking about portfolios which generate consistent revenue from enduser sales. If you are getting consisent enduser sales and making an overall profit after all costs (on a portfolio wide basis) you are in the right boat in my view.

So how do you go about creating – today – one of these “portfolios which generate consistent revenue from enduser sales.” I’d sincerely like to know this. What is this path to success that no one seems to know about?

Look, if I got into domaining 5 or 10 years ago, and knew then what I know today, I might now have a portfolio like the one you describe. That is because I would have done then what I'm doing now: buying domains in a variety of niches that I see as likely to grow in value over time.

I'm not really sure what you mean by they don't come cheap, it is what it is. They sell on a multiples just like any investment and multiples vary widely according to quality.

Where are these domains that you can buy today and turn around and sell tomorrow at a good ROI? They're few and far between, that's where. Everybody in this business is angling to find them. Some of us are looking farther down the road toward niches that may have value in 3 to 5 years. There are various models - in practice by real, live domainers (not the fantasy domainer that has found the goose that lays the golden egg) - for how to sustain this investment strategy. If LLLL domainers were not finding financially sustainable ways to manage their LLLL investments we would have seen a lot more drops pre-buyout anniversary than we did.

Does LLLL domaining involve speculation? Of course! You have yet to demonstrate an alternate path to domaining success that does not involve speculation. Saying “there are better ways” does not make it so. No one is recommending putting all your eggs (golden and otherwise) in one basket. The smart domainer, like the smart investor, diversifies his portfolio.

No, that is the same with any investment, like I said before, "investing" does not mean "zero risk".

And where there's risk, there's speculation.

 

[Dotmainer]

Ah, noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

that was the best thing about LLLL.net ... there wasn't that negative discussion about them ... dont mean to not be realistic ....


.... but that whole ... "yes, value is going up 0,50$ ... no its going down" is really really boring ....


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