LLLL.com evaluation thread

[italiandragon]

While the last LLLL.com are taken (you can check www.dyyo.com to know how many are left) , I really feel the need to have a sort of 4L price guide on the same sort of the 3L/ 3 chars price guide.

I asked to people to create a database of LLLL.com sales but it seems no one can do it so I`m going to create it myself as much as I can on just a forum thread. If I knew how to create a database I was doing it.

Keep in mind that this thread is still in the early stage and I`ll update it as much as I can. I will update this first post so it will be easier for everyone to know what`s going on in the LLLL.com aftermarket. It is going to take me a lot of my spare time but I hope that eventually soon , someone will create a software that will run by itself Till then , let`s hope I can have time!

So, just for the newbies , let`s see what we already know about the 3 chars.com price guide:

"The quality of the letter composition can play a significant role in determining 3-letter valuations. General concensus states that the letters A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T are considered premium letters. Other lesser high quality letters include: J, K, U, V, W. Lower quality letters include: Q, X, Y, Z. Domains selling for less than the above figures would represent a strong buy in today's market. Premium letter only domains tend to fetch a 500% to 600% premium (or more) over the Minimum Wholesale Price. Mixed letter quality domains have valuations somewhere in the middle of these two extremes."


I think we could adjust the same rules to the LLLL.com

Let`s play a little bit with the letters to find out what are the minimun reseller prices as for now , end of September 2007 (NOTE: THIS FIRST THREAD IS CONSTANTLY UPDATED WITH THE NEW INFO HIGHLIGHTED IN RED)

Obviously we should analyse in this thread ONLY the NON pronunciable ones to consider ONLY the quality of letters, so not even a very well known acronym but only 4 random letters.

For the "other" LLLL.com sales and evaluations based on pronunciability , then you may find useful this other thread:

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/358387-the-llll-com-sales-report-thread.html

I`ll start with my opinion but feel free to add yours so we can get to a sort of price guide.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

A LLLL.com including 2 or more of "Q, X, Y, Z" (as long as they are not 2 of the same) I`d say less no more than $10 since there are still 12,000 of them left.

EXAMPLE: GXZH.com (no more than $10)

There is one example of these ones right now on ebay, ending in less than 3 hours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/hzxv-com-Origin...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Obviously even with 2 "bad letters" , when they start to be pronunciable this is what happens:

ZAYM.com $201

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162205723&category0=&fvi=1

Double letters such as:

GXXH.com
ZZDC.com
FYYT.com
DRQQ.com

I`d appraise them at minimun $20-$30 depending on the letters. Double but not consecutives letters would just be below the above ones.


XSXT.com $20.50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=170160241510&category0=&fvi=1



Triple bad letters such as:

QQQD.com
FZZZ.com
RXXX.com
YYYG.com

I`d appraise them at minimun $70-$100 depending on the letters.


Then we may analyse the ones with only 1 bad letter (always Q, X, Y, Z):

FGZS.com
EYDF.com
PXSE.com
TFQG.com

These kind of LLLL .com are still available so reg fee to $10 , must be for them.


UPDATED:

SOME AUCTIONS ON EBAY ARE GETTING ABOVE $10:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ZWTO-com-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/FGXR-com-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

UPDATE 13 OCTOBER: ON EBAY PRICES ARE CONSTANTLY ABOVE $10 FOR LLLL WITH JUST 1 BAD LETTER , SOMETIMES ABOVE $20 TOO.

ZATB.com $12.49

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=270170293855&category0=&fvi=1

RLYN.com $36

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200159375608&category0=&fvi=1


RBYK.com $29.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200163278990&category0=&fvi=1


HRHY.com $30.80

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162203800&category0=&fvi=1


YATG.com $23.95

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162885146&category0=&fvi=1


a double letter with 1 bad letter :

IIZP.com $42

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300161869692&category0=&fvi=1




---------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we have the ones which include the group "lesser high quality letters": J, K, U, V, W.

These ones have lately bought totally so the minimun reseller price must be above reg fee , let`s say $10 - $20 depending from the letters. Some people tend to include J, K and U in the premium letters. I`d definitely include the vowel U but I guess this is a personal point of view.
Even here at NP , LLLL including just the letter U tend to outperform this category:

FGUB.com $32 (October 2007)

http://www.namepros.com/domains-for-sale-auctions/383276-fgub-com-1-start-great-4letter.html

It may be also useful to consider that K and W were sold out earlier than J and V.



There is one example of these ones right now on ebay, ending in 3 hours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/UMGV-COM-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


UPDATE 25 OCTOBER:

Things are getting hotter (at the moment less than 7000 LLLL are left) and U and this category is quickly raising its reselling value on EBAY:

DPTU.com $54.51 now

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162512206&category0=&fvi=1


RWEO.com $78.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/RWEO-com-LLLL-4...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


The letter U and W obviously are not that bad

The letter V in Italian is very much used , while in China is not so a lot depends from your background.

J is not my favourite in this group (as in the Italian alphabet there is no J-K-W-X-Y ) but certainly is getting attention by someone else:

RCEJ.com $30

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=120172045546&category0=&fvi=1


Then we have 2 of the group J, K, U, V, W such as:

GJJA.com
FVVO.com
KKTR.com

I`d say $30 to $50 as they are all gone and the double letter will increase their rarity.


FNKK.com $52

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162204984&category0=&fvi=1

2 of them but not the same 2 (double) are less valuable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VWTP-com-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

VDUZ.com $26

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...from=R8&satitle=200159969339&category0=&fvi=1


WPEJ.com $23.15

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200163499690&category0=&fvi=1


With 3 of them , like :

GJJJ.com
FVVV.com
KKKT.com

I`d say $100 -$150

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Then we have the best of the best: ALL PREMIUM letters:


A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T



Names like CLFO.com or FGTR.com or ATFI.com are going to get $$$.

I can`t find any of these LLLL.com for less than $100 , sometimes not even $200 buy them.
So I`d say a really minimun of $100 to easily $200 each.
At places like Snapnames.com, the all premium letters even if they are non pronunciables , are going already for above $400 and the market is getting hotter day by day.

If the name appears to have 2 of a kind like:

SSFO.com or GBBT.com then we should be at minimun $200 to $300

3 of a kind such DDDF.com or TLLL.com will get over $300 to $500

SPECIALS​

Anything like this is an added value.

In my daily observation of LLLL.com sales I noticed that any of the following abbreviations and/or suffixes are more valuable:

- IT (Information Tecnology or Italy)

- MY

Examples:

IMYO.com $449

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...from=R8&satitle=300158326938&category0=&fvi=1

BMMY.com $350

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18688&tracked=&partnerid=


HFMY.com $37.50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162885558&category0=&fvi=1


- UK

UKIX.com ended on TDNAM.com @ $146

- DE

- US

- CA

- OZ (Australia)

- NZ (new Zealand)

- GO

- HI

Examples:

HIXV.com $59 (October 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...from=R8&satitle=120169750537&category0=&fvi=1

- OK

- KG

- CV (Curriculum Vitae)

- DR (Doctor)

- DJ

Examples:

DJBX.com $45 (October 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=170158507650&category0=&fvi=1


And more that I`ll add as soon as I can think of them!

Also,some letters add value because of their very common use.

The letter E , I and O add value usually because can mean E-lectronic , I-nternet and O-nline.

Other nice letters are:

C for Corporation or Company , L for Limited , A for Association.

The best positions are usually in the first or in the 4th spot depending from the letter. For example E will be better in the first spot while L for Limited will be better in the 4th spot but all of these letters can add value.


Other special categories that attract a bonus are based on the numbers of vowels.
There are only 5 vowels so the LLLL.com with 4 vowels are extremely rare and even the ones with 3 vowels perform very well as their demand is high.

Some recent examples:

OEOV.com $56

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=110183807446&category0=&fvi=1


EOAJ.com $52

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=110183814160&category0=&fvi=1

CVCV & VCVC​

Let`s start from the TOP this time:

CVCV.com

all premium letters Like BIFE.com or DAGO.com

minimun......well here it is hard since prices increase quickly ....maybe $1,500 ?


CVCV.com with 1 bad letter like BIZE or DAQO.com about $800

CVCV.com with 1 bad and 1 average letters like NUQE.com or VAXO.com about $500

CVCV.com with 1 bad and 2 average letters like WUQA.com or ZOVU.com

about $300

It was right WUQA.com that made me realize that I forgot the 1 bad + 2 average ones. People reported that WUQA.com ended on TDNAM.com at $315 (end of October)

CVCV.com with 2 bad letters like QEZI.com or ZIXO.com about $400

CVCV.com with 2 bad letters and 1 average letter like QUZI.com or ZUXO.com about $300

CVCV.com with 2 bad and 2 average letters (MUST BE DOUBLE U) like QUZU.com or ZUXU.com about 300



Now let`s see the VCVC.com

all premium letters Like IFEB.com or AGOC.com about $1,000 ?

VCVC.com with 1 bad letter like IZEB or AQOC.com about $500

VCVC.com with 1 bad and 1 average letters like OZUD.com or AXUF.com about $300 - $350 (I sold OZUD.com on SEDO in August for $330)

VCVC.com with 2 bad letters like AXEZ.com or IQOX.com about $200

VCVC.com with 2 bad letters and 1 average letter like UXEZ.com or UXOQ.com about $100

VCVC.com with 2 bad and 2 average letters (MUST BE DOUBLE U) like UZUQ.com or UXUZ.com about 100



I`m currently taking input on the CVCV and the VCVC where Y is the last vowel.

The first recent example is this one:

OGYZ.com $57.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200157925898&category0=&fvi=1


I leave the CVVC and VCCV to others as I did not have much experience with them yet.


SALES OF RANDOM (NON PRONUNCIABLE) LLLL.COM AT OTHER VENUES:

SEDO.com​

Interesting Sedo Auctions show many crappy LLLL.com with bids

UPDATE: CHECK THE AUCTIONS BELOW THAT ARE NOW ALL ENDED....PRICES ARE GETTING SHOCKING!

zekh.com $120

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18336&tracked=&partnerid=

zeow.com $300

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18360&tracked=&partnerid=

ucnk.com $120

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18468&tracked=&partnerid=

ahlq.com $243

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18528&tracked=&partnerid=


hobf.com 100 Eur= $140

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18576&tracked=&partnerid=


jvbb.com 100 Eur=$140

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18693&tracked=&partnerid=

yvze.com 70 Euros=$105

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18730&tracked=&partnerid=


Are we already starting to see a minimun price of $100 for each LLLL.com ?


Please share your opinions on the one of the hottest niches of the domain market

Thank you

 

[vlad74]

There is a bunch ending at TDNAM under $60
looks like in the next 12-18 hours or so

if you mean auction for expired domains, they usually jump in the last minutes of auction. I would not count on price 12-18 hours before the auction ends.

 

[Standout!]

The names that are really skyrocketing are the ones that have phonetic sounds, and that make good brandable names for companies/sites. Almost anything that you can sound out can easily get into the x,xxx range. I've got a lot of these. I'm lettin a couple of mine (Duzr.com and Qikz.com) go to Sedo auction this week to see how they do, for the fun of it; I wanted to try this as my friend has made many tens of thousands of dollars on Sedo auctions with his already. I love that Duzr.com name. Pronounceable and I can see it powering a web 2.0 site.

If the deal goes through for this name, I'll tell about it in the sale thread. It's pronounceable, good English spelling, with two premiums and two semi-prems. Crossing my fingers!

 

[filter]

I'm lettin a couple of mine (Duzr.com and Qikz.com) go to Sedo auction this week to see how they do, for the fun of it; I wanted to try this as my friend has made many tens of thousands of dollars on Sedo auctions with his already. I love that Duzr.com name. Pronounceable and I can see it powering a web 2.0 site.

nice ones - might see total for the 2 come in over $1000 (just guessing, I haven't been paying much attention to the $xxx and up pieces) ...

Both seem like very nice brandables, definitely should be attractive for web2.0 types.

Also - "du" is German familiar "you" ... so might even find acronyms with the Z auf Deutsch bitte ... and hella google results for Zr (everything from zirconium to motorcycles to market research firms ... and then there is this one: zr.org ... apparently rescued by the "Domain Name Preservation Society" ...! I'm off to see what other gems are lurking in the domainpreserve.org site now ...)

good luck with your "non-premium" sales on Sedo slobizman!

 

[vlad74]

To continue discussion I started in sales report thread http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?p=2466763#post2466763

I am considering buying vova.com. It is a short name of vladimir, hovewer unofficial one, i.e. you will never see this name in any official document like passport, driving licence, university diplom, etc.

My last offer to the seller (though sedo) was $2,200. The seller insists on $4,500. Would you consider this an acceptable price (I plan to use the name for my email, photopages, etc, i.e. no revenues to be expected). In case I get some offer in the future, I may sell it. However, as filter mentioned, I shall look at $20,000 to realise the same ROI comparing to other CVCV.

What is your opinion on this?

 

[filter]

what price satisfaction, Vlad ? you will be the end user. IMO, that's what domaining is all about - to make enough money to get a nice domain for yourself.

And owning vova may make you some money in terms of having a memorable "status" domain to brand your business with ... I think it can make a difference for a domainer to have a good domain as their home base. ("Amdo" and "The Rers Group" come to mind.)

and you can (probably) always sell it for more - sooner or later, some other Vlad with money to burn will come knocking, drooling, asking their friends to talk them into buying it as you are now.

if you have the funds to spare at the moment, buy it before that other Vlad does ...

now, going beyond the ritual administration of LLLL cult kool-aid ... let's consider the price more rationally, pretending for the moment that your name were not Vlad

I guess it might be comparable to something like Joey.com but for Russian (or more generally Slavic?) demographic ... is Vladimir as popular a name in Russia as Joseph is in America? Seems in the same ballpark. As for the nickname ... Not every Joseph is called Joey, not every Vlad is called Vova ... so, still comparable IMO.

The difference between 2200 and 4500 for this seems not so much in that light. I don't think you would lose money on this. Seems to me fairly likely that it could find a buyer at a higher price in the future should you ever choose to sell. $20,000? I don't know. Sooner or later, it's not out of the question. Look for comps on other "short nickname" sales (such as Joey.com, even Bobby.com or Danny.com or Freddie.com or ...)

Beyond that ... I didn't know Vova was a nickname, and it still caught my eye as a Very Nice Brandable - a $10K end user price tag easy, ie better than hulu ...

it's sexy (literally - a close echo of female erogenous anatomy ... Hey, it worked for Volvo ...!)

it's got energy ... 2 conjugations of latin "go" ... neat. It is so very very brandable for that + the above. A winning combination!

IMO it could soon be worth a bit more than $4,500 ... Right now, you have a good opportunity - buyer wants to sell, you want to buy - I think quite possibly you are more likely to regret not buying it when you have this chance, more so than you would ever regret paying the current asking (steep but fair, IMO) price.

But, okay ... what else could you do with the $4500 ... Buy 4 lesser CVCV ... or 20 "quad premiums" or 100 "triple premiums" ... or 200 "anti-premiums" ...

Consider a hypothetical future where the "average" CVCV tops out at 5 or 10 thousand $ (reseller) about a few years down the road.

In those few years, might the "very nice, how much?" vova be worth something between $20,000 and $50,000 to some filthy rich Vlad? (You, perhaps.)

I don't know - say it's a 50/50 chance one path will do better than the other in terms of money - it's not obvious to me which way to go ... (though I suspect vova really does have a higher upside than most of the other CVCV out there. It is sexy.) But now ... add the value of your own satisfaction to the equation. That's got to be worth a few thousand. People pay more than that to their headshrinkers every year. But this would be just a one-time expenditure for you ...

:hehe:

I feel comfortable recommending that you buy the name, as long as spending the funds to do so won't leave you homeless ... (no joke! If that's the case - as it would easily be for me at the moment ... then hey, life goes on. You can always make some more money in the meantime, and try to buy it for $20,000 or whatever a few years down the road!)

 

[ssamriga]

wow, Filter that's some nice analysis

When do you sleep or do domaining? Writing so many extremely long posts here

 

[vlad74]

Filter, thanks for the very detailed analysis and recommendation! Looks like I will need to sell few of my LLLLs now and buy Vova

 

[filter]

wow, Filter that's some nice analysis

When do you sleep or do domaining? Writing so many extremely long posts here

thanks ssamriga! I write in my sleep ... this is all a dream. A very good dream so far

LLLL domaining is easy ... buy, sell, rinse, repeat ...

:lol:

 

[bgmv]

Maybe its just me but can someone explain to me the prestige in CVCV and VCVC? I dont see why someone would want to spend a minimum of $500 on a name like VUXO, which doesnt mean anything to anyone, when they can spend $500 on two quad premiums that do have relevance and more potential end users. Or is the beauty of CVCV and VCVC the fact that most are pronouncable? I would rather own a name like TEHQ than XISA...anyone else?

 

[Markith]

Maybe its just me but can someone explain to me the prestige in CVCV and VCVC? I dont see why someone would want to spend a minimum of $500 on a name like VUXO, which doesnt mean anything to anyone, when they can spend $500 on two quad premiums that do have relevance and more potential end users. Or is the beauty of CVCV and VCVC the fact that most are pronouncable? I would rather own a name like TEHQ than XISA...anyone else?

This thread should help you out: http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...-cvcv-vcvc-com-so-hot.html?highlight=CVCV.com


If you would rather have TEHQ than VUXO you are crazy... Brandability and Pronounceability are the main reasons

 

[Travis]

This thread should help you out: http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...-cvcv-vcvc-com-so-hot.html?highlight=CVCV.com


If you would rather have TEHQ than VUXO you are crazy... Brandability and Pronounceability are the main reasons

I understand the reasoning, but I myself would rather have the domain name coch.com, than xiza.com. I never purchased to get CVCV.

 

[Markith]

I understand the reasoning, but I myself would rather have the domain name coch.com, than xiza.com. I never purchased to get CVCV.

I would rather have coch.com too, I think most everyone would. It'd be worth much more imo.

heres are some sales worth more than many CVCV.com's:

burl.com $5,805.00
zank.com $5,778.00
rott.com $4,850.00
fbox.com $3,801.00
trik.com $3,400.00
aidc.com $2,900.00
eboa.com $2,800.00
toch.com $2,500.00 (like coch)

 

[Alex]

I would rather have coch.com too, I think most everyone would. It'd be worth much more imo.

heres are some sales worth more than many CVCV.com's:

burl.com $5,805.00
zank.com $5,778.00
rott.com $4,850.00
fbox.com $3,801.00
trik.com $3,400.00
aidc.com $2,900.00
eboa.com $2,800.00
toch.com $2,500.00 (like coch)

Burl is a word, so I would not count it as an LLLL sale.

 

[Markith]

Burl is a word, so I would not count it as an LLLL sale.

Learn something on here everyday

even so zank or toch make the point

 

[bgmv]

This thread should help you out: http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...-cvcv-vcvc-com-so-hot.html?highlight=CVCV.com


If you would rather have TEHQ than VUXO you are crazy... Brandability and Pronounceability are the main reasons

Thanks markith, it helped. Obviously some CVCV or VCVC are no brainers but others are sometimes baffling. I understand the whole conception of natural speech patterns and so forth but can someone reason with me and say that some of these sales are just absurd? I even understand the mathematical exclusivity behind it, some of these names are getting $XXXX and they are barely pronouncable or marketable.

 

[markfromslo]

I understand the reasoning, but I myself would rather have the domain name coch.com, than xiza.com. I never purchased to get CVCV.

No contest that I'd take Xiza.com over Coch.com. Xiza rolls off the tongue and looks cool. Great Web 2.0 brand name. Coch is a weird sound, I mean what is the sound, C*ck or is it Coach or what?

As for the broader question you asked, CVCV is, in general, just simply more pronounceable. The high prices are paid for brandability of great sounding names, not one of the almost 500,000 (!) possible acronyms (but this falls on deaf ears in this thread).

 

[mwzd]

The x is extremely tough to pronounce in xiza specially if you're used to saying it like x-ray.

Coch on the other hand would easily pass the phone test, which I think is getting increasingly important for short domains (llll-lllll).

Just my 0.02

 

[-REECE-]

Agreed. To be completely honest... I greatly prefer CVCVs/VCVCs with starting letter Q even over X... Pronouncing it as a Z is really stretching it alot more than pronouncing a Q as a C imho...

Coch is a nice name.. I like it

The x is extremely tough to pronounce in xiza specially if you're used to saying it like x-ray.

Coch on the other hand would easily pass the phone test, which I think is getting increasingly important for short domains (llll-lllll).

Just my 0.02

 

[ivnj]

I just snagged ekdz.com yesterday.

 

[dag]

Just picked up avyl.com today for $124 -- I'm happy! :sold: