LLLL.com evaluation thread

[italiandragon]

While the last LLLL.com are taken (you can check www.dyyo.com to know how many are left) , I really feel the need to have a sort of 4L price guide on the same sort of the 3L/ 3 chars price guide.

I asked to people to create a database of LLLL.com sales but it seems no one can do it so I`m going to create it myself as much as I can on just a forum thread. If I knew how to create a database I was doing it.

Keep in mind that this thread is still in the early stage and I`ll update it as much as I can. I will update this first post so it will be easier for everyone to know what`s going on in the LLLL.com aftermarket. It is going to take me a lot of my spare time but I hope that eventually soon , someone will create a software that will run by itself Till then , let`s hope I can have time!

So, just for the newbies , let`s see what we already know about the 3 chars.com price guide:

"The quality of the letter composition can play a significant role in determining 3-letter valuations. General concensus states that the letters A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T are considered premium letters. Other lesser high quality letters include: J, K, U, V, W. Lower quality letters include: Q, X, Y, Z. Domains selling for less than the above figures would represent a strong buy in today's market. Premium letter only domains tend to fetch a 500% to 600% premium (or more) over the Minimum Wholesale Price. Mixed letter quality domains have valuations somewhere in the middle of these two extremes."


I think we could adjust the same rules to the LLLL.com

Let`s play a little bit with the letters to find out what are the minimun reseller prices as for now , end of September 2007 (NOTE: THIS FIRST THREAD IS CONSTANTLY UPDATED WITH THE NEW INFO HIGHLIGHTED IN RED)

Obviously we should analyse in this thread ONLY the NON pronunciable ones to consider ONLY the quality of letters, so not even a very well known acronym but only 4 random letters.

For the "other" LLLL.com sales and evaluations based on pronunciability , then you may find useful this other thread:

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/358387-the-llll-com-sales-report-thread.html

I`ll start with my opinion but feel free to add yours so we can get to a sort of price guide.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

A LLLL.com including 2 or more of "Q, X, Y, Z" (as long as they are not 2 of the same) I`d say less no more than $10 since there are still 12,000 of them left.

EXAMPLE: GXZH.com (no more than $10)

There is one example of these ones right now on ebay, ending in less than 3 hours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/hzxv-com-Origin...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Obviously even with 2 "bad letters" , when they start to be pronunciable this is what happens:

ZAYM.com $201

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162205723&category0=&fvi=1

Double letters such as:

GXXH.com
ZZDC.com
FYYT.com
DRQQ.com

I`d appraise them at minimun $20-$30 depending on the letters. Double but not consecutives letters would just be below the above ones.


XSXT.com $20.50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=170160241510&category0=&fvi=1



Triple bad letters such as:

QQQD.com
FZZZ.com
RXXX.com
YYYG.com

I`d appraise them at minimun $70-$100 depending on the letters.


Then we may analyse the ones with only 1 bad letter (always Q, X, Y, Z):

FGZS.com
EYDF.com
PXSE.com
TFQG.com

These kind of LLLL .com are still available so reg fee to $10 , must be for them.


UPDATED:

SOME AUCTIONS ON EBAY ARE GETTING ABOVE $10:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ZWTO-com-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/FGXR-com-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

UPDATE 13 OCTOBER: ON EBAY PRICES ARE CONSTANTLY ABOVE $10 FOR LLLL WITH JUST 1 BAD LETTER , SOMETIMES ABOVE $20 TOO.

ZATB.com $12.49

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=270170293855&category0=&fvi=1

RLYN.com $36

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200159375608&category0=&fvi=1


RBYK.com $29.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200163278990&category0=&fvi=1


HRHY.com $30.80

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162203800&category0=&fvi=1


YATG.com $23.95

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162885146&category0=&fvi=1


a double letter with 1 bad letter :

IIZP.com $42

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300161869692&category0=&fvi=1




---------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we have the ones which include the group "lesser high quality letters": J, K, U, V, W.

These ones have lately bought totally so the minimun reseller price must be above reg fee , let`s say $10 - $20 depending from the letters. Some people tend to include J, K and U in the premium letters. I`d definitely include the vowel U but I guess this is a personal point of view.
Even here at NP , LLLL including just the letter U tend to outperform this category:

FGUB.com $32 (October 2007)

http://www.namepros.com/domains-for-sale-auctions/383276-fgub-com-1-start-great-4letter.html

It may be also useful to consider that K and W were sold out earlier than J and V.



There is one example of these ones right now on ebay, ending in 3 hours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/UMGV-COM-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


UPDATE 25 OCTOBER:

Things are getting hotter (at the moment less than 7000 LLLL are left) and U and this category is quickly raising its reselling value on EBAY:

DPTU.com $54.51 now

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162512206&category0=&fvi=1


RWEO.com $78.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/RWEO-com-LLLL-4...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


The letter U and W obviously are not that bad

The letter V in Italian is very much used , while in China is not so a lot depends from your background.

J is not my favourite in this group (as in the Italian alphabet there is no J-K-W-X-Y ) but certainly is getting attention by someone else:

RCEJ.com $30

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=120172045546&category0=&fvi=1


Then we have 2 of the group J, K, U, V, W such as:

GJJA.com
FVVO.com
KKTR.com

I`d say $30 to $50 as they are all gone and the double letter will increase their rarity.


FNKK.com $52

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162204984&category0=&fvi=1

2 of them but not the same 2 (double) are less valuable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VWTP-com-4-Lett...ryZ11153QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

VDUZ.com $26

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...from=R8&satitle=200159969339&category0=&fvi=1


WPEJ.com $23.15

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200163499690&category0=&fvi=1


With 3 of them , like :

GJJJ.com
FVVV.com
KKKT.com

I`d say $100 -$150

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Then we have the best of the best: ALL PREMIUM letters:


A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T



Names like CLFO.com or FGTR.com or ATFI.com are going to get $$$.

I can`t find any of these LLLL.com for less than $100 , sometimes not even $200 buy them.
So I`d say a really minimun of $100 to easily $200 each.
At places like Snapnames.com, the all premium letters even if they are non pronunciables , are going already for above $400 and the market is getting hotter day by day.

If the name appears to have 2 of a kind like:

SSFO.com or GBBT.com then we should be at minimun $200 to $300

3 of a kind such DDDF.com or TLLL.com will get over $300 to $500

SPECIALS​

Anything like this is an added value.

In my daily observation of LLLL.com sales I noticed that any of the following abbreviations and/or suffixes are more valuable:

- IT (Information Tecnology or Italy)

- MY

Examples:

IMYO.com $449

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...from=R8&satitle=300158326938&category0=&fvi=1

BMMY.com $350

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18688&tracked=&partnerid=


HFMY.com $37.50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=300162885558&category0=&fvi=1


- UK

UKIX.com ended on TDNAM.com @ $146

- DE

- US

- CA

- OZ (Australia)

- NZ (new Zealand)

- GO

- HI

Examples:

HIXV.com $59 (October 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...from=R8&satitle=120169750537&category0=&fvi=1

- OK

- KG

- CV (Curriculum Vitae)

- DR (Doctor)

- DJ

Examples:

DJBX.com $45 (October 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=170158507650&category0=&fvi=1


And more that I`ll add as soon as I can think of them!

Also,some letters add value because of their very common use.

The letter E , I and O add value usually because can mean E-lectronic , I-nternet and O-nline.

Other nice letters are:

C for Corporation or Company , L for Limited , A for Association.

The best positions are usually in the first or in the 4th spot depending from the letter. For example E will be better in the first spot while L for Limited will be better in the 4th spot but all of these letters can add value.


Other special categories that attract a bonus are based on the numbers of vowels.
There are only 5 vowels so the LLLL.com with 4 vowels are extremely rare and even the ones with 3 vowels perform very well as their demand is high.

Some recent examples:

OEOV.com $56

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=110183807446&category0=&fvi=1


EOAJ.com $52

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=110183814160&category0=&fvi=1

CVCV & VCVC​

Let`s start from the TOP this time:

CVCV.com

all premium letters Like BIFE.com or DAGO.com

minimun......well here it is hard since prices increase quickly ....maybe $1,500 ?


CVCV.com with 1 bad letter like BIZE or DAQO.com about $800

CVCV.com with 1 bad and 1 average letters like NUQE.com or VAXO.com about $500

CVCV.com with 1 bad and 2 average letters like WUQA.com or ZOVU.com

about $300

It was right WUQA.com that made me realize that I forgot the 1 bad + 2 average ones. People reported that WUQA.com ended on TDNAM.com at $315 (end of October)

CVCV.com with 2 bad letters like QEZI.com or ZIXO.com about $400

CVCV.com with 2 bad letters and 1 average letter like QUZI.com or ZUXO.com about $300

CVCV.com with 2 bad and 2 average letters (MUST BE DOUBLE U) like QUZU.com or ZUXU.com about 300



Now let`s see the VCVC.com

all premium letters Like IFEB.com or AGOC.com about $1,000 ?

VCVC.com with 1 bad letter like IZEB or AQOC.com about $500

VCVC.com with 1 bad and 1 average letters like OZUD.com or AXUF.com about $300 - $350 (I sold OZUD.com on SEDO in August for $330)

VCVC.com with 2 bad letters like AXEZ.com or IQOX.com about $200

VCVC.com with 2 bad letters and 1 average letter like UXEZ.com or UXOQ.com about $100

VCVC.com with 2 bad and 2 average letters (MUST BE DOUBLE U) like UZUQ.com or UXUZ.com about 100



I`m currently taking input on the CVCV and the VCVC where Y is the last vowel.

The first recent example is this one:

OGYZ.com $57.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=200157925898&category0=&fvi=1


I leave the CVVC and VCCV to others as I did not have much experience with them yet.


SALES OF RANDOM (NON PRONUNCIABLE) LLLL.COM AT OTHER VENUES:

SEDO.com​

Interesting Sedo Auctions show many crappy LLLL.com with bids

UPDATE: CHECK THE AUCTIONS BELOW THAT ARE NOW ALL ENDED....PRICES ARE GETTING SHOCKING!

zekh.com $120

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18336&tracked=&partnerid=

zeow.com $300

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18360&tracked=&partnerid=

ucnk.com $120

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18468&tracked=&partnerid=

ahlq.com $243

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18528&tracked=&partnerid=


hobf.com 100 Eur= $140

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18576&tracked=&partnerid=


jvbb.com 100 Eur=$140

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18693&tracked=&partnerid=

yvze.com 70 Euros=$105

http://sedo.com/auction/auction_detail.php?language=us&auction_id=18730&tracked=&partnerid=


Are we already starting to see a minimun price of $100 for each LLLL.com ?


Please share your opinions on the one of the hottest niches of the domain market

Thank you

 

[Andrei P.]

TDNAM.com UPDATE:

The number of LLLL.com with BIN prices under $100 + $10 reg fee


Search returned 130 listings

Once we get under 30 or so , I guess everywhere , it will be hunting time for anything under $100

I just want to correct your that you don't need to pay 10$ regfee for these listings with BIN price because they are not expired auctions

 

[italiandragon]

I just want to correct your that you don't need to pay 10$ regfee for these listings with BIN price because they are not expired auctions

In the past months I bought some at $5 buy it now and GoDaddy added 1 year renewal.

Are you sure about that? I did not buy any other since , from TDNAM yet.

Thanks

 

[Alex]

The $5 BIN is for the domains that did not get a bid at the expired name auction.

The BIN prices are those that are for sale by other domainers, so there is no need to pay the renewal fee for them.

 

[Andrei P.]

BTW. Nice list. I bought two triple premium + J domains for 49$ each

 

[italiandragon]

The $5 BIN is for the domains that did not get a bid at the expired name auction.

The BIN prices are those that are for sale by other domainers, so there is no need to pay the renewal fee for them.

alright, thanks guys for the correction!

I`ll edit it.

 

[vlad74]

TDNAM.com UPDATE:

The number of LLLL.com with BIN prices under $100


Search returned 130 listings

Once we get under 30 or so , I guess everywhere , it will be hunting time for anything under $100

114 listings

by the way, I also bought one. thanks for the advise.

 

[KingDon]

When that number happens, people will start to really take notice; and that could just be the spark, that starts the big fireworks show.

 

[vlad74]

When that number happens, people will start to really take notice; and that could just be the spark, that starts the big fireworks show.

you mean 30 listings under $100 at tdnam? I think it happens in one week

 

[filter]

you mean 30 listings under $100 at tdnam? I think it happens in one week

well, I promise I won't be putting any of my anti-premiums on TDNAM for less than $100 ... So far, the low end of that range seems to catch better bids on eBay (often, and a bit more so lately).

By the way, I just made my first sale of a fine fine superfine LLLL.com "fine art curio" piece for over $100 today. There really are some diamonds in the rough hiding among all that "line noise" ... This was one of them, and I miss it already - my fond memories of owning that domain will last a lot longer than the money I got for it will. (And I don't think it will be coming back on the market anytime soon, if ever.)

 

[italiandragon]

114 listings

by the way, I also bought one. thanks for the advise.

I`m surprised, it`s going fast.

It looks like TDNAM is rising the minimun value of LLLL.com to already $39 for absolutely the ugliest ones.

 

[timmaay]

well you can't be saying that ... some of those are expiring no bids and I assume will be relisted or put back in the vault

 

[italiandragon]

well you can't be saying that ... some of those are expiring no bids and I assume will be relisted or put back in the vault

If you read what I wrote to Randomo:

http://www.namepros.com/2445931-post1202.html

you`understand that people prefer to buy BIN rather than monitor auctions all the time in different time zones. I guess the number of those "un-noticed" will decrease as prices will go up more.

 

[italiandragon]

I`m surprised, it`s going fast.

It looks like TDNAM is rising the minimun value of LLLL.com to already $39 for absolutely the ugliest ones.

WOW! Not even 4 hours later and another 15 are gone!


Search returned 99 listings


I feel the heating under the LLLL.com

Hold them tight guys, it`s just going to be a bautiful 2008 and it`s just started!

 

[-REECE-]

All 15 courtesy of me :hehe:

WOW! Not even 4 hours later and another 15 are gone!


Search returned 99 listings


I feel the heating under the LLLL.com

Hold them tight guys, it`s just going to be a bautiful 2008 and it`s just started!

 

[italiandragon]

All 15 courtesy of me :hehe:

well give it a rest lol, you`re cleaning too much!

 

[filter]

I feel the heating under the LLLL.com

Now more than ever, this forum needs a "popcorn" emoticon ...

They've been sizzling for a while, now a few are going "pop" ... "pop" ...

"pop"

"pop pop" ... "pop pop pop pop"

When I was a kid - before "microwave popcorn" - we'd pop it in a pot on the stove. Sometimes would be fun to take the lid off while they were still popping, to see if they were done!

I wonder what the ratio of dud kernels to yummy treats is going to be when this batch is done. Seems like it's only begun to pop ... Mostly still just crunchy nuggets ... cook the popcorn too long after it's popped and it will scorch though ...

Okay, maybe not the best analogy, but fun for now.

Better analogy might be watching a plant grow - seeds were planted some time ago, sprouts have been coming up for just a few weeks ... People thinking "ah, it's growing so slow, how will this scrawny little runt ever get anywhere ..." Fast forward a month or two - now it's knee high and growing so fast you can almost hear it. Come back in a few years to find that little sapling now taller than you are ...

Like a forest, the fastest-growing ones could get to be pretty tall. And the slower ones may never be seeing even half as much "sunshine" (ie speculator interest and money flow) for many years. But at some point, the faster "sky-rocket" sprouts will have grown to be just about as tall as their "roots" (end-user ability/willingness to pay) can support. Many will also be eventually removed from the "reseller forest" to be turned into end-user domociles ...

And that may leave the ones that are still left a bit more room to grow. (Similar to what's now seen with the "never gonna happen" QXY-type LLL.com values).

(and - to toss another metaphor into the mix) -> seems like a decent bet that every horse in this race just might come out a winner one way or another, sooner or later. Some are going to get to the finish line a lot faster. But there's also good money to be made when a long shot comes in ...

(Four months ago, I bought a batch of "line noise" for less than $2.50 per ... ROI on a $15 or $20 or now more often $25+ sale for one of those isn't too shabby - starting to add up after selling a dozen of them ... Oh, and one of the ones I've been holding onto just because I like its wacky vibe (looks sorta like "Wiki" - sounds a bit like "Whiskey") - turns out to be the call letters for a radio station, for whatever that's worth ....)

(Wondering how many "neigh-sayers" are really still left back at the glue factory waiting for bulk lots of these silly Phillies to drop this year ...)

That being said - prices seldom go straight up - so if you're buying to flip, it's easy to get a bit ahead of the market and - if you let yourself get overextended - you might end up selling at a loss, usually right before prices pick up again ... Don't do that. Better to pick a few good ones (however you want to define "good" - in whatever price range) that you really like enough to be comfortable holding onto for as long as it takes until someone makes you an offer you can't refuse. And enjoy the ride to the finish line!

:sold:

 

[-REECE-]

Well Said!

I've never sold an LLLL.com for a loss nor do I intend on ever doing it. If prices fall, use that as an opportunity to buy more, not sell out.

 

[italiandragon]

Now more than ever, this forum needs a "popcorn" emoticon ...

They've been sizzling for a while, now a few are going "pop" ... "pop" ...

"pop"

"pop pop" ... "pop pop pop pop"

When I was a kid - before "microwave popcorn" - we'd pop it in a pot on the stove. Sometimes would be fun to take the lid off while they were still popping, to see if they were done!

I wonder what the ratio of dud kernels to yummy treats is going to be when this batch is done. Seems like it's only begun to pop ... Mostly still just crunchy nuggets ... cook the popcorn too long after it's popped and it will scorch though ...

Okay, maybe not the best analogy, but fun for now.

Better analogy might be watching a plant grow - seeds were planted some time ago, sprouts have been coming up for just a few weeks ... People thinking "ah, it's growing so slow, how will this scrawny little runt ever get anywhere ..." Fast forward a month or two - now it's knee high and growing so fast you can almost hear it. Come back in a few years to find that little sapling now taller than you are ...

Like a forest, the fastest-growing ones could get to be pretty tall. And the slower ones may never be seeing even half as much "sunshine" (ie speculator interest and money flow) for many years. But at some point, the faster "sky-rocket" sprouts will have grown to be just about as tall as their "roots" (end-user ability/willingness to pay) can support. Many will also be eventually removed from the "reseller forest" to be turned into end-user domociles ...

And that may leave the ones that are still left a bit more room to grow. (Similar to what's now seen with the "never gonna happen" QXY-type LLL.com values).

(and - to toss another metaphor into the mix) -> seems like a decent bet that every horse in this race just might come out a winner one way or another, sooner or later. Some are going to get to the finish line a lot faster. But there's also good money to be made when a long shot comes in ...

(Four months ago, I bought a batch of "line noise" for less than $2.50 per ... ROI on a $15 or $20 sale for one of those isn't too shabby - starting to add up after selling a dozen of them ... Oh, and one of the ones I've been holding onto just because I like its wacky vibe (looks sorta like "Wiki" - sounds a bit like "Whiskey") - turns out to be the call letters for a radio station, for whatever that's worth ....)

(Wondering how many "neigh-sayers" are really still left back at the glue factory waiting for bulk lots of these silly Phillies to drop this year ...)

That being said - prices seldom go straight up - so if you're buying to flip, it's easy to get a bit ahead of the market and - if you let yourself get overextended - you might end up selling at a loss, usually right before prices pick up again ... Don't do that. Better to pick a few good ones (however you want to define "good" - in whatever price range) that you really like enough to be comfortable holding onto for as long as it takes until someone makes you an offer you can't refuse. And enjoy the ride to the finish line!

:sold:

filter....would you consider writing for my blog?

I haver seen such a passionate writer !

 

[filter]

I've never sold an LLLL.com for a loss nor do I intend on ever doing it. If prices fall, use that as an opportunity to buy more, not sell out.

Occupational hazard of auction sales - especially with quick flips! And - working at the penny-ante level I've been, the PayPal fees can actually turn a nominal "dollar profit" into an actual 50 cent "negative ROI" ... So far I think about 3 of the 20ish auctions I've done on eBay and here on NP have ended up with a slight loss or break-even (which goes down as negative "opportunity cost" in my book) ... But the rest have been "good popcorn" to more than make up for the duds. I'm feeling more inclined to start focusing on fixed-price sales now though - while I still have to sell a few this month. (I prefer buying!)

filter....would you consider writing for my blog?

I haver seen such a passionate writer !

:yell:

I have to edit myself a lot sometimes!

Thanks, Antonio (Off to go look for your blog ...)

 

[dannbkk]

filter....would you consider writing for my blog?

I haver seen such a passionate writer !

Alot of thought goes into every one of filter's posts. I think Filter is an asset to namepros.