.us LLL.us - Supply and demand.

[Lasher]

Now that my deal is complete, here's the results of an exercise I just went through with LLL.us. I scanned the entire LLL.us namespace, sorted by email address of owner and looked for people with relatively small collections (3 to 30 domains). I skipped a few that were all Q,X,Z domains, but otherwise blindly offered $150 per domain regardless of letter combinations. I sent well over a hundred emails in total. I figured this was a fair price based on recent reseller prices.

Surprisingly, I received quite a few responses. Most of them were "we are not selling", a handful were selling but wanted at least $500 per domain and I got one bite on a 14 domain collection. Now go look at the number of LLL.us headings in the "domains wanted" forum.

Based on supply and demand, I'd say the future looks bright for these domains.

Oh, the domains in question are:

ive.us
ize.us
ler.us
lly.us
ngs.us
plo.us
ble.us
ous.us
ove.us
uck.us
yer.us
ter.us
ves.us
zes.us

Not that I'm a big fan of domain hacks, but almost every one of these has great hack potential (uck.us?

I think I'll just add 2 years to the registration on each of these and lock them away until 2009.

 

[dsiomtw]

Quite clearly you are offended.

I'm not offended at all - you are some stranger on an Internet message board - why would anything you say affect me one way or another? Don't kid yourself, it doesn't.

If you truly believed in the .us youd take some of that lll money and buy up all the $XXXX keywords you can and resale to end users for $XXXXXX in the coming years.

If I have a different investment strategy than you, why does that make me wrong?

You just keep saying stuff you have no clue about. I don't understand it. I own over 7,500 .us domains. Who said they are all lll.us? They aren't.

Instead you put it in lll's because resellers eat them up

Let me say it again since you haven't caught on yet - I HAVE NEVER SOLD A LLL.US OR ANY .US DOMAIN TO A RESELLER! lol

I'm not going to go back and forth with you any more, I was just trying to contribute to the thread. I didn't realize you like to argue about things you don't know anything about.

 

[duskdawn]

The prices for random LLL do rely on the end-user applications in the long run, so since .us are not as crappy as .biz, there's definitely some decent money to be made. Even if there's not many end users buying .us names, the LLL.us can still reach their plateau at at least xxx range, which is good enough for this extension.
BTW, dsiomtw snapped my whole lll.us portfolio for only $30 apiece in early Feb. He gave me a good lesson. I didn't realize .us market would has such a bright future, in terms of LLL, it has already caught up with .info.

 

[dsiomtw]

That's the thing - you haven't made any "valid points". All you did was dispute every single that I said, as if you have any clue about my domains, how often I'm contacted by end users, whether I sell domains or not, how many I've sold, etc. What are you trying to acccomplish? This is like if I were to try to argue with you about what you had for dinner last night.

 

[Jo]

What we have to keep in mind is our industry is driven by speculation, we control the market.

Key words here...key words.

As .us is not a widely accepted extension yet among the general public (WHO are your end-users) the resellers are controlling the prices and the markets.

 

[maroulis]

Here's my two cents on .us domains. Take a look at the .eu market and compare it to the .us market. Analyze and formulate the reasons why the markets should have any, some, or a lot of disparity in their prices. Come to your own conclusions...

here's my 2 cents... as Josh said the recent increases in LLL.US is ENTIRELY attributed to speculation with 99.9% changing hands amongst domainers. I'm not going to go into details unless you're SO NAIVE to think that price fixing doesn't exist (google game theory). So the people who OWN the majority of LLL.US market are simply inflating prices...

It's the BIGGEST bubble yet to burst, and I wholeheartedly agree w/Josh.. Unfortunately (or rather fortunately for us that can make educated guesses & investments) the domain market is HUGELY volatile that is price points exist and alter on a DAILY basis...

LLL.COM before December where selling for $2400, they peaked around June for $4-5K even the worst letters and last month IF you're paying any attention people are struggling to sell @ 3K and seen at least 4 change hands for $2.5 - $2.8K..

Now, .US had picked up steem around Feb/March when a few notable prime LLL.US sold for $1-$2K.. two weeks ago I picked up shitty LLL.US for $70 and can flip now for $120/$150 so where's the demand coming from? It's coming from CLUELESS end-users and domainers who think these will go as high as LLL.COM

IF you're familiar w/capitalism you should be aware of the most basic principle "there no money tree, if one exists it gets exploited by selected FEW and automatically corrects itself".. Don't make me state countless examples outside domain industry...

So it's GREAT to pump and dump, but give us a break.....

 

[wot]

Whilst I see some like to specialis/ze in particular areas I think it is not good economic sense to hold too many eggs in on basket. JMO
Hundreds of lll in any extension are money pits (hundreds X lll X renewal fees). I know of a least a couple who have a very large portion of the .com lll namespace, and they have had them a long time. Many of which probably do not make reg fee from parking. They are sitting waiting for the next sale.

I diversify. I do have a large proportion of the .co.in namespace but they are lll, generics, numbers - a mixture.

I bought .tw last year, one of the few to do so - I have made a substantial profit. I have good .com's. good .info , .cc , .fm etc . I will sell to anybody, reseller, end user , your granny - if the price is right- that is my criteria.

I had in excess of 800 sales last year.

I am in this business to make money and my strategy is my own and we all have our own way of going about doing this.

Good luck to all of us and which ever routes we choose to meet our objectives.

 

[domainica]

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule and the word/letters matter, I am simply showing a general example. My point is the lll dot us market imo needs to be utilized by end users to see growth to continue to climb with the dot com, otherwise it is a huge bubble. Why risk investing in an unproven bubble when similar growth from the dot com is there to be had and proven?

I have been debating this within myself for a week now. Keywords are keywords, i will certainly look at .us at that angle, but random lll

People dont realize the resellers have created their OWN market, with a foundation built on hopes , dreams, greed etc. Not demand from end users. The demand instead is a result of hopeful resellers So money is there to be made, however all good things come to an end. Its like hot potatoe imo.

Couldn't agree more. I said pretty much the same thing in another post a few months back, but it was regarding ALL non-.com names. And what most .us owners still do (and I'm just as guilty) is slap together a PPC site that will discourage visitor returns, rather than a good content site that will encourage returns and help get the word out.

This market NEEDS end-users to survive and thrive.

 

[Lasher]

Now, .US had picked up steem around Feb/March when a few notable prime LLL.US sold for $1-$2K.. two weeks ago I picked up shitty LLL.US for $70 and can flip now for $120/$150 so where's the demand coming from? It's coming from CLUELESS end-users and domainers who think these will go as high as LLL.COM

IF you're familiar w/capitalism you should be aware of the most basic principle "there no money tree, if one exists it gets exploited by selected FEW and automatically corrects itself".. Don't make me state countless examples outside domain industry...

I haven't seen too many people stating that LLL.US will ever hold the same value as LLL.COM, and would agree with you that they are wrong. However, a lot of people believe that LLL.us will hold a higher value than they do today. You sound market savvy, so you know the psychology of stock prices and although significantly more volatile, a $1 stock is more likely to double than a $100 stock.

I seem to be out on my own here, but I don't even believe that LLL.xx needs end users to thrive. They are a unique subset of the namespace with a very limited supply and lots of people wanting them. In short, they are rare, and they are collectors items, those 'collectors' in this case happen to be domainers. Sure, the occasional end user sale is nice, but I'll be happy to hold these domains for a few years and sell to another collector for xxx% profit and if I'm wrong then it's just another calculated investment that didn't work out.

Will there be a price correction short term? It's quite possible, just as with stocks, a few people start to sell, weak hands panic and sell too, price takes a hit. However, unless fundamentals or market conditions have changed, these blips have little impact on the long term appreciation of a good stock and turn out to be great buying opportunities.

I have no crystal ball, this is all opinion and worth what you paid for it

 

[dsiomtw]

Youre right I have no clue what I am talking about,

You have no clue what you are talking about when you try to tell me who is contacting me about my domains, etc. etc. etc. I never said you are clueless about domains names in general - I don't know you. But you've made statements about things you could not possibly have any knowledge of - and that's clueless. If you want to try to twist things around that's fine, but anyone with half a brain sees right through your "arguments".

And if I recall you were looking to dump a bunch of those lll's not long ago ?

Fortunately I never sold a single one of them. I had a once in a lifetime investment opportunity staring me in the face, so I briefly considered selling my entire portfolio, but fortunately I didn't need the extra cash after all. As I mentioned before, I can count on 1 hand the number of domains I've sold. And the only reason I sold those is because I couldn't refuse the offers.

You sir have put down someone who deals with a handful of names worth your entire portfolio

This is the kind of comment that makes you seem "clueless". You have NO idea what domains I own, so how could you possibly make such a statement? You can't. It makes you look extremely clueless when you make such ridiculous statements. End of story.

I ask you to justify the recent surge based on actual performance of the extension

If you mean outside all of the end user sales that occur every day, I guess I can't. Doh!

but to say end users are the future, not realistic in this case

If you don't think end users are and will be buying .us domains in the future, that is your decision to make. Many, many people would disagree with you.

I'm not going to go into details unless you're SO NAIVE to think that
price fixing doesn't exist (google game theory). So the people who OWN
the majority of LLL.US market are simply inflating prices...

Allow me to let you in on a little secret, the only "price fixing" going on is exactly the opposite of what you said. Big .us players are not inflating prices, they are trying to hold them down by NOT reporting sales.

 

[fonzie_007]

Can we all stop the pissing match and get back to the real discussion? Some people think .us domains are overvalued. IMO, they are still undervalued. Sure, I speculate like the rest out there. All I know is that 2-3 years from today, I'll be extremely surprised if LLL.us domains aren't selling for ~$500/pop.

 

[oldtimer]

Slowly but surly the end user market is developing for .US , but it might take a few more years for the general public to be actively looking for .US domains, Many small and new businesses that are priced out of other extensions are gradually becoming aware of .US and are beginning to see its potentials. If you can hang on to your .US domains a little while longer things will get much more exiting in the near future. Amazingly for those who own over a thousand domains it is easier to wait because at those numbers the laws of probability take over, with so many domains they are bound to have a few offers a month from end users even now and a few of their domains are probably doing pretty good with PPC, and most likely they have a few premium domains that are doing good through development. Enter the strings below at yahoo or google search box and see many .US sites that are already developed and are in use by businesses and end users.


site:.us inc -inurl:state -inurl:ci -inurl:co -inurl:fed -inurl:k12 -inurl:lib

OR

site:.us -inurl:state -inurl:ci -inurl:co -inurl:fed -inurl:k12 -inurl:lib

 

[maroulis]

Allow me to let you in on a little secret, the only "price fixing" going on is exactly the opposite of what you said. Big .us players are not inflating prices, they are trying to hold them down by NOT reporting sales.

I am not sure what you're smoking, but surely if you don't smoke and have that many .US domains like you claim and are NOT aware of price fixing then I suggest you take 2 weeks off and go take an evening college class or something..

price fixing amongst large domain holders is happening across ALL extensions

If you also think that .US or any other CC.TLD domain owners are trying to keep prices down by not reporting sales (which is HILARIOUS argument) then you really ought to be considered for Nobel prize for your humanitarian or peace efforts!!!!

there's no such thing as common-sense after all and you have just proved my point.. Good luck w/your domaining, and I'll see you in Sweden..

 

[Lasher]

If you also think that .US or any other CC.TLD domain owners are trying to keep prices down by not reporting sales (which is HILARIOUS argument) then you really ought to be considered for Nobel prize for your humanitarian or peace efforts!!!!

I started this thread because I thought some people would be interested in the results of emailing 100+ LLL.us domain owners with an offer that even 2 weeks ago seemed reasonable as a flat rate per domain. Does it really have to be trampled all over with school yard insults?

As for the quote above, why is it so hilarious? It has nothing to do with serving humanity or peace efforts, it is good business sense. If you have a nice little niche going selling decent (but not premium) generic .US domains that you picked up for 20 bucks each on forums to small businesses for 500-2500 a pop, of course you want to keep the prices down. If you believe a significant rise in the popularity of .US is coming but are still accumulating domains, you also want to keep the prices down. You're not going to announce to the world that you just sold PlumbingSupplies.us to someone for 1500 bucks while there's a good chance you can pick up ElectricalSupplies.us from the current owner for 50-100.

As someone posted in another thread, no domain is an essential item like fuel or food, sellers don't set the prices these domains change hands at, buyers do. Sellers state what they are willing to let one go for and buyers either buy, or, don't. Simple economics my friend.

If you meant "sham sales" between multiple domain owners in collusion in the same way that Worldcom traded contracts between its subsidiaries to create the illusion of revenue, wouldn't surprise me, but that's not something I'm qualified to comment on.

Can we please get back to discussing the pros and cons of LLL.us as a community of domain investors without flaming each other?

 

[maroulis]

If you have a nice little niche going selling decent (but not premium) generic .US domains that you picked up for 20 bucks each on forums to small businesses for 500-2500 a pop, of course you want to keep the prices down.

Are you aware of many LLL.US end-user sales?

You're not going to announce to the world that you just sold PlumbingSupplies.us to someone for 1500 bucks while there's a good chance you can pick up ElectricalSupplies.us from the current owner for 50-100.

Precisely my point, especially since the market is based on our own PERSONAL inflation. No end users come knocking on your door (at least NOT yet) for .US domain as there's zillion of keyword combos unregistered. Huge bubble waiting to burst, but we;ll have this discussion again in a few months when LLL.us would have corrected..

As someone posted in another thread, no domain is an essential item like fuel or food, sellers don't set the prices these domains change hands at, buyers do. Sellers state what they are willing to let one go for and buyers either buy, or, don't. Simple economics my friend.

All domains do not carry same weight, there's a reason why million pound gorillas (iReit, ...) leave certain extensions (if not all ) out of their reach/portfolio. Don't kid yourself you've not found the answer to cold-fusion and you won't become an instant millionaire.

If you meant "sham sales" between multiple domain owners in collusion in the same way that Worldcom traded contracts between its subsidiaries to create the illusion of revenue, wouldn't surprise me, but that's not something I'm qualified to comment on.

How else do you explain an LLL.US selling for $40 3 months ago and selling for $120 today?

 

[Lasher]

All domains do not carry same weight, there's a reason why million pound gorillas (iReit, ...) leave certain extensions (if not all ) out of their reach/portfolio. Don't kid yourself you've not found the answer to cold-fusion and you won't become an instant millionaire.

Because iReit can afford the diamonds, the best of the best. If I could, I'd be buying that too, but it doesn't make silver and gold worthless. The rest of that quote is just unnecessary assumption on someone you know nothing about. I have no expectations of becoming an instant millionaire, I have an expectation of getting a better return on the cash invested in my .US domains, over the long haul, than investing it elsewhere.

I'm bailing out of this, it's starting to look more like a Yahoo stock discussion board than Namepros.

 

[fonzie_007]

The Duke (another big LLL.us holder) may shed some light on a few LLL.us domains sales he's had in the past few weeks. He told me of two of them in one week.

EDIT: Duke corrected me, both his sales were public. (post has been editted for this reason)

 

[Ron Jackson]

The Duke (another big LLL.us holder) may shed some light on a few LLL.us domains sales he's had in the past few weeks. He told me of two of them in one week--I believe both sales were kept private.

Both sales you are referring to were reported in DN Journal. CLS.us and EMA.us at $2,000 each (different buyers). Some others I have sold this year include IMA.us ($2,500), TXT.us ($1,750) and FBO.us ($1,000). I sell LLL domains to end users only and rarely consider under 1K for them unless the letter combos are weak (and I have almost none in that category). Small businesses have become a great (and rapidly growing market) for non .com extensions as they have been priced out of the .com market.

With respect to the comments about iREIT, they have bought A LOT of non .com domains. Their president, Marc Ostrofsky, is a major fan of .info for example, and has been very public in his opinion that other extensions could provide a great ROI in the years ahead (this very topic, in fact, will be the subject of a seminar at Traffic next month that Ostrofsky will lead. I am also slated to be on that panel).

 

[fonzie_007]

Thanks for the correction Duke. I've editted my post above to reflect that your sales were public.

 

[Lasher]

I just took a look at these domains today to see what they're being used for:

EMA.us : Very interesting, redirects to 'Emergentmed.com' but they refer to their organization as 'EMA'. An end user medical organization seeing the value of picking up their acronym in the .US extension and redirecting to their established .COM, and, paying 2k to do it.

CLS.us : Appears to be a domain investor, brandsplus.com. Whois shows owned by someone in Hungary. I hope they have a legitimate US presence because this can be an ugly business and as the value of LLL.us grows so will attention on non-US registrations. There's a lot of them out there.

IMA.us : Well developed site called "its my art".

TXT.us : Trafficz parked.
FBO.us : Trafficz parked.

 

[Ron Jackson]

Buyer of CLS was from Hungary. BrandsPlus.com is one my old sales sites, so if it resolves there he hasn't changed redirection. I get a non resolving page here. That sale was just completed last week. Don't know what his plans for the domain are but at 2K I would assume he plans to develop. IMA.us was bought by the Indianapolis Museum of Art.

The two at TrafficZ are almost certainly going there because the buyers never changed the nameservers, as that is where I had the domains parked.

 

[harpo]

Scouting domain bees are flying directed by their queen ,,, sent into forums for their cheap prices by large domain companies who have alot of honey and money and only newly begotton vi8ion.......... , there is word that they are wanting to get into the .us honeycombe m4trix market for domains that end in .us .... thats why there is a sudden buying price gauge, its being done with out too musch BUZZ as possible but its affecting the m4rket with the busy buying of a few .us portfolios..
The seventh monke9 has joined too where collective strength is in numb3rs....its colorful pagentry has inspired new combers as well..............
Passion brings interest.......... regarding who is right or who is wrong is neutralized by the energy of momentum created.......
This brings about change its waves are music , its refreshing to see debate in this area where there is polarity there is energy,
Where there is energy there is attention then spawns awareness, to set motion into play to manifest change .............................
its all inevitable like the rising of the sun and the bending of the rice stock when the harvest moon is seen...........

 

[dsiomtw]

We will continue to see more and more, and larger (think 5 and 6 figure), sales of .us names to end users in the near future. Mark my words.

 

[oldtimer]

its refreshing to see debate in this area where there is polarity there is energy, Where there is energy there is attention then spawns awareness, to set motion into play to manifest change .............................

Well said harpo, thats what internet is all about.

 

[Kate]

I find it quite funny that such debates on the future of .us are taking place nearly every week on domain forums.
Still .US is getting hot. It's not my opinion, it is a fact.

There are end users, Duke just gave a few examples. It is also understood that we domainers are feeding the trend and driving prices up. But domaining is also about gambling on the future, it is about anticipating the trends and the needs of end users... there is a lot of reseller activity because we see what's coming and want to get into the starting blocks. If you are like me, you are feeling the demand that is building up right now. I have invested myself because I believe in .us.

We all know that .us started late (2002). It takes time for a TLD to gain acceptance. I have witnessed similar trends in other TLDs (many European TLDs began to prosper when the rules on registration were relaxed). But times are changing. .US is America's TLD and it's not going to remain a marginal ext. The fact that we are now seeing large companies advertising with their .us TLD is something to ponder.

As Duke says, many businesses have been priced out of the dot-com market. In view of the shrinking dot-com namespace .us is gaining ground and is now beginning to stand as a viable extension, not to mention the 'patriotic' touch.

On the particular issue of LLL domains, 3-letter names have always been good acronyms which means there are a lot of possible buyers and there will always be demand for such names in the popular TLDs. Scarcity is also one factor.

Obviously there are believers and there are skeptics here.
Actually I would prefer to be surrounded with skeptical domainers only so I (and the big players of course) would have less competition :hehe:

 

[zouzas]

so whose buying at snapnames every week ,,its not endusers..........