question Is Parklogic gone??

[periergos]

Hello to all.
Does anybody uses parklogic??
The log in page is down and no answer via contact or skype for some days now.
Any infos anybody?

 

[frank-germany]

there is really no need to miss them

 

[Whizzbang]

Hi there,
Just saw this thread....actually we aren't gone at all. You must have selected the login link when we were in transition through to a new data centre....sorry about that. We did this as part of the upgrade to releasing ParkLogic Next in the new year.....we've been working on Next for the past 18 months.

Also....I beg to differ.....after being 8 years in the industry ParkLogic is alive and well. We plan on having six people at NamesCon in Vegas so if you are going to be there then let me know.

 

[decades80]

Hi there,
Just saw this thread....actually we aren't gone at all. You must have selected the login link when we were in transition through to a new data centre....sorry about that. We did this as part of the upgrade to releasing ParkLogic Next in the new year.....we've been working on Next for the past 18 months.

Also....I beg to differ.....after being 8 years in the industry ParkLogic is alive and well. We plan on having six people at NamesCon in Vegas so if you are going to be there then let me know.

You will have to do more than that just went through your latest video, nice reporting section, BUT if you will not manage to offer with NEXT CPA model for our domains, I believe the majority will not move from PC, Voodoo, DNS, DS and Bodis. Anyone up till now was promising CPA models like Fabulous and some others and it all ended miserably with 0.01 USD clicks.

 

[frank-germany]

rotating LandingPages or CPA / Affiliate Offers or different Parking Companies
( aka Targets ) against your domain traffic
is a tricky thing to do

1) if you have lets say 3 different Targets for your traffic
and only 1 is the best that as well means 2 are worse

if you start to rotate that traffic you will always lose
at the beginning

if you have low traffic this "beginning" may last very very long

and we are talking per Domain here
or better said per Domain per Country

Some Targets for your traffic will only work at certain times of the year
( halloween ), so that spoils the statistcs too

2) If you aditionally have to pay for the rotating service
like monthly fees
and / or percentage of income
then you are bound to lose real money
at least if you are below $500 / month
at $100 / month you lose about 40% of your income plus loss of the 2 lesser "good" Targets based on rotation

3) if you have alternatives like above.com
that may be much better for you


all the best to you


PS: if you use above and PL have a look at the nameservers

 

[Whizzbang]

You will have to do more than that just went through your latest video, nice reporting section, BUT if you will not manage to offer with NEXT CPA model for our domains, I believe the majority will not move from PC, Voodoo, DNS, DS and Bodis. Anyone up till now was promising CPA models like Fabulous and some others and it all ended miserably with 0.01 USD clicks.

Hi there,
We've had CPA models setup for the past 6 years via the RTB networks etc. The challenge here is to balance the needs of a spot price (RTB) versus an average daily price and to ensure that the RTB networks don't hollow out all of the good traffic and pay pennies for it.

The other issue with CPA is the breadth of advertisers...but this is changing as Google lowers it's TAC (Traffic Acquisition Costs) and makes it more viable for tier 2 networks in particular.

 

[Whizzbang]

rotating LandingPages or CPA / Affiliate Offers or different Parking Companies
( aka Targets ) against your domain traffic
is a tricky thing to do

1) if you have lets say 3 different Targets for your traffic
and only 1 is the best that as well means 2 are worse

if you start to rotate that traffic you will always lose
at the beginning

if you have low traffic this "beginning" may last very very long

and we are talking per Domain here
or better said per Domain per Country

Some Targets for your traffic will only work at certain times of the year
( halloween ), so that spoils the statistcs too

2) If you aditionally have to pay for the rotating service
like monthly fees
and / or percentage of income
then you are bound to lose real money
at least if you are below $500 / month
at $100 / month you lose about 40% of your income plus loss of the 2 lesser "good" Targets based on rotation

3) if you have alternatives like above.com
that may be much better for you


all the best to you


PS: if you use above and PL have a look at the nameservers

Really interesting post here....

A couple of points to add to what you said:
1. I've been speaking at domain conferences for many years about the differences between rotation and intelligent switching.....there's a HUGE difference. In summary, every time you sample it costs money to buy the information. For instance, if you are paid $1 at one traffic source, sample a difference source and get paid $0.80 that information just cost you $0.20. Sampling at the right interval for every different domain is critical for optimisation.
2. Although you are likely to lose at the beginning in sampling this is not always the case. What many people forget is that by coming on a network like ParkLogic you always get our payout levels. I may be wrong but I don't know of anyone that gets what we get from all of the different monetisation companies.
3. Your point two is actually incorrect....sorry to say. The only way that a company like ParkLogic can continue to exist is if we provide value to clients. The value comes in two forms:
a) Increased revenue - an increase by about 25-30% is typical (dependent upon traffic geo-location).
b) Reduced costs - the domain investor doesn't have to try and spend the time optimising the traffic themselves. They get this time back to work on other projects.

If you really want to know about traffic optimisation and extracting value from your domain traffic then I'm very open about it. I've been writing on the subject for many years on my blog: http://whizzbangsblog.com/index.php...hive/categories/listings/traffic-monetisation

I think the best article for some of the issues that you raised is here: http://whizzbangsblog.com/index.php...fic-test-paying-attention-to-the-right-number

I hope that this helps you out.

 

[frank-germany]

3. Your point two is actually incorrect....sorry to say. The only way that a company like ParkLogic can continue to exist is if we provide value to clients. The value comes in two forms:
a) Increased revenue - an increase by about 25-30% is typical (dependent upon traffic geo-location).
.

1) don't you charge 25% + $25 or something per month?
2) and won't the income first decrease due to rotation?

I am an expert in rotating traffic since 2008
there is no such thing as intelligent rotation
-
the only thing existing is percentage based
weighting rotation based on income

but if you have low traffic that won't work
as conditions change to quickly

statistics work only on huge numbers
it is complete BS to think you can make a decision on a low traffic numbers

if you don't believe that rotate the exact same thing against itself and watch the outcome

there are so many conditions influencing a click from a visitor
like which ads does g. show?
which landingpage does the parking company show?
based on which keywords?
from which country did the user show?
was he an inhabitant or a visitor in that country?
at what time of the day / day of the week did he show up?
was he in a leisure mood or did he visit within buisiness hours?

no way to optimise that using several Landing Pages / Parking / CPA offers
the thought to rotate stuff will kill your income

thats no theory
I have useed parklogic as well
as invented my own traffic rotation systems since 2008

if you want to rotate all you need is above
if you want parking income stick with parkingcrew / voodoo / sedo

if you want CPA for your domain traffic
still use above or parkingcrew

all this is true for the average guy
if you have really high traffic then optimisation makes sense
I am talking per domain

disclaimer
I have no relation to parkingcrew other then using them and being facebook friends
I have no other relation to above other then using them
I have no relationship to parklogic other then having used them for about half a year and deeply regretting it - you can't leave them earlier as rotation / optimising doesn't work before having data - so you need / want to try a little longer

 

[decades80]

I just think some CPA models would do better with domains which get lower CPC like <0.05 USD, like torrents or free charts. On the other hand Ive heard that lead generation for drug rehab traffic is forbidden in US. Usually advertisers would be interested to buy them at XXX USD per lead, but I can not really complain since we get 40 USD + clicks on DNS for US traffic.

 

[Whizzbang]

1) don't you charge 25% + $25 or something per month?

> No we don't. The amount that we charge varies upon the size of the client and the services they request.

2) and won't the income first decrease due to rotation?

This often depends upon the size of the domainer and their current agreements. Generally speaking it takes around 6 weeks to optimise a portfolio (depending upon the traffic levels per domain) and then constant monitoring.

I am an expert in rotating traffic since 2008
there is no such thing as intelligent rotation

I will have to differ with you on this last point.....if you only use percentage based weighting then you're absolutely correct...but that wouldn't be very smart. The other point I would raise here is that to ask, of the seven different revenue numbers to track for a domain each month which one do you use in your normalised RPM calculation? This is really important and if you get this wrong then the routing of the traffic to the winning company will be incorrect.

statistics work only on huge numbers
it is complete BS to think you can make a decision on a low traffic numbers

Yes, you are right here. If you approach domains in isolation then you can run into the statistical modelling problem....but not all low traffic domains have to be approached in this fashion.

there are so many conditions influencing a click from a visitor
like which ads does g. show?
which landingpage does the parking company show?
based on which keywords?
from which country did the user show?
was he an inhabitant or a visitor in that country?
at what time of the day / day of the week did he show up?
was he in a leisure mood or did he visit within buisiness hours?

Yes, there are a LOT of variables.....we track around 300 per domain per day.

if you want to rotate all you need is above
if you want parking income stick with parkingcrew / voodoo / sedo
if you want CPA for your domain traffic
still use above or parkingcrew

What we have found is that any single parking provider wins a maximum of 22% of the time. This means that if you have all of your domains with one provider then you could improve the performance 78% of the time elsewhere. Parking Crew is a great company....as is Sedo and Voodoo for the domains that they win at any point in time.

The challenge with CPA and Real-time-bidding (RTB) networks is that you introduce a different type of metric into the equation that risks lowering your average normalised RPM. For example, let's imagine on average you receive 20 cent clicks from parking. This is actually made up of 40 cent, 5 cent and 10 cent clicks.....this is the average price paid per day. If a RTB network offers 25 cents (ie. more than the parking number) should you take it? That really depends on whether they are only offering 25 cents for the 40 cent traffic or the 5 cent traffic. This is a small example of how intelligently switching the traffic can make a big difference to the final result.

Full disclaimer.....I'm one of the founders of ParkLogic and have been working in the domain industry for the past 14 years.

 

[frank-germany]

Full disclaimer.....I'm one of the founders of ParkLogic and have been working in the domain industry for the past 14 years.

yes I know that

I have registered my first domain in 1998
sold my first 4 digits ( € ) domain in 2001

all "science" won't change the simple truth that you
can't optimize 1 domain using more then 2 variables at the same time
if you have less then several hundered visitors / day
( from the same country, searching for the same stuff )

to verify that:
try rotating ads on adwords

use only 3 ads - 2 of them beeing the exact same ad
running for the same landing page - for traffic from the same country

and then watch how long it takes
to see both the exact same ads
to show the exact same CTR%

you probably never will see that

 

[Whizzbang]

I have registered my first domain in 1998
sold my first 4 digits ( € ) domain in 2001

all "science" won't change the simple truth that you
can't optimize 1 domain using more then 2 variables at the same time
if you have less then several hundered visitors / day
( from the same country, searching for the same stuff )

If you only rotate then you're quite correct....but there are a LOT better ways of determining a winning solution than simply rotating. Maybe this is a part of our "secret sauce" LOL!

I'm really enjoying the conversation BTW.

 

[frank-germany]

I will have to differ with you on this last point.....if you only use percentage based weighting then you're absolutely correct...but that wouldn't be very smart. The other point I would raise here is that to ask, of the seven different revenue numbers to track for a domain each month which one do you use in your normalised RPM calculation? This is really important and if you get this wrong then the routing of the traffic to the winning company will be incorrect.

you tend to overcomplicate stuff

best rotation to be done is
show every second visitor
version 2

at the end of the day calculate your money

take the winner
and show version 3 to every second visitor the next day

you have effects based on sunday / holiday / and other seasonal influences
so you need a little common sense

 

[Whizzbang]

you tend to overcomplicate stuff

best rotation to be done is
show every second visitor
version 2

at the end of the day calculate your money

take the winner
and show version 3 to every second visitor the next day

you have effects based on sunday / holiday / and other seasonal influences
so you need a little common sense

Sorry if you feel that I over complicate things.....good traffic optimisation is actually a REALLY complicated process. As an example, is the money your "calculating" the confirmed numbers or the estimated numbers? Also, is it taking into account any clawbacks and account adjustments?

I did a presentation on traffic routing at a number of conferences and constructed the following example that I think is pretty close to what you are talking about.

I then used a REALLY simple example of intelligently switching traffic (this is actually not the most optimum way btw).

I hope that this helps.
There's one thing that I do know about routing traffic.....I don't know everything. It's one of the reasons why I enjoy the industry so much. I find that I'm constantly learning and trying to understand what is going on to better extract the value from traffic.

For instance, the decline in the Shanghai Index had an impact on the PPC rate and greatly influenced the routing. The Euro to $US exchange rate has also had a dramatic impact on returns for European domain investors. These macro economic influences are really important to understand in optimising traffic.....yes, it's complicated but it's one of the reason why clients pay us to manage their domain portfolios.

 

[frank-germany]

If you only rotate then you're quite correct....but there are a LOT better ways of determining a winning solution than simply rotating. Maybe this is a part of our "secret sauce" LOL!
.

so you say you don't rotate???
that implies you know already which offers is best?

rotating means:
show different landing pages / parking companies ( and their several LP / having different keywords ) / CPA / CPC / Lead offers?

to the visitor of a domain
1 single domain!

and that will not have the same result
if the visitor is from more then 1 country
and in the night he / she may want something else then at day time
weekend / week

so what else then rotating can you do
to find the best version?

the only alternative I can think of is :
use 1 fixed version of LP
and I wouldn't call that a smart solution in the tems of this thread

but on the other hand it may be the very best solution in reality.

 

[frank-germany]

all "science" won't change the simple truth that you
can't optimize 1 domain using more then 2 variables at the same time
if you have less then several hundered visitors / day
( from the same country, searching for the same stuff )

to verify that:
try rotating ads on adwords

use only 3 ads - 2 of them beeing the exact same ad
running for the same landing page - for traffic from the same country

and then watch how long it takes
to see both the exact same ads
to show the exact same CTR%

you probably never will see that

obviously we have a different definition of "rotation"

 

[Whizzbang]

so you say you don't rotate???
that implies you know already which offers is best?

In many instances you can actually make a reasonable guess what offer is best before ANY traffic is sent. You can then refine the guesstimate from there as more information is gathered. It's taking into consideration both the macro and micro view of domain traffic....but like we've both agreed....this gets really complicated, really fast.

If you look at the above slides you will see that traditional rotating is actually a really bad way of optimising.

 

[frank-germany]

As an example, is the money your "calculating" the confirmed numbers or the estimated numbers? Also, is it taking into account any clawbacks and account adjustments?

obviously you need to use the payable amounts only
what a question to be asked...

If you look at the above slides you will see that traditional rotating is actually a really bad way of optimising.

After rotating traffic against offers for 7 years now,
I think I have a very deep understanding of rotating traffic

 

[Whizzbang]

obviously you need to use the payable amounts only
what a question to be asked...

This means that your routing will be delayed by 48 hours (Google reporting delays) or 30 days (to take into account any account adjustments).
As an example, at one stage a few of the monetisation providers used to bribe the switching algorithms by saying that they would pay more during the month. This would essentially mean they were the winners and the traffic would flow through to them. They would then put in an account adjustment at the end of the month which effectively made them the sub-optimal solution.....you may need to watch out for this type of activity.

After rotating traffic against offers for 7 years now,
I think I have a very deep understanding of rotating traffic

From our conversation, I think that you do as well.....but I also believe that we both can always benefit from continuous learning.

 

[frank-germany]

This means that your routing will be delayed by 48 hours (Google reporting delays) or 30 days (to take into account any account adjustments).
As an example, at one stage a few of the monetisation providers used to bribe the switching algorithms by saying that they would pay more during the month. This would essentially mean they were the winners and the traffic would flow through to them. They would then put in an account adjustment at the end of the month which effectively made them the sub-optimal solution.....you may need to watch out for this type of activity.

yes, you will face "scrubbing" and "shaving" and chargebacks as well as
" the advertiser doesn't like your traffic " messages

take all this into the conclusion then you will agree
that is nearly impossible to "optimise" domain traffic
when the domain has low traffic

its more or less gambling
but yes you may win