discuss IoT will do more good than harm?

[Bernard Wright]

@Ostrados is unenthusiastic about IoT but believes it its arrival is inevitable.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/what-is-the-next-big-thing.1149464/page-7#post-7508945

In the subsequent post, @DT13 thinks Ostrados should "Do some research, iot is more than that. The internet is also more than just advertising and spying."

I think this is a really interesting topic, but I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so here we are. @mems and @HotKey showed interest in the topic. I wonder whether others might agree that this topic could make for an interesting discussion that we could potentially learn from.

I haven't read much on the topic, but my thoughts are much like Ostrados'. Even if IoT can let us do neat things, it will come with a price. I perceive that price to be quite high. I'm wondering whether my mind can be changed.

 

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[Ostrados]

As I mentioned in other thread, we know were IOT is heading but we chose to ignore that! we know that IoT will become the biggest spying network FB, Google, Intelligence agencies .. and others ever dreamed about.

For me I will never buy any smart+device thing, I don't need a smart fridge why do I need one?!!

And it is already happening:

Teen goes viral for tweeting from LG smart fridge after mom confiscates all electronics
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-g...fridge-after-mom-confiscates-all-electronics/

 

[HotKey]

When I see stuff being said about future tech like "it's inevitable", "better get used to it" or to quote mems

Sometimes I have similar thoughts on IOT as well, hell, I have them now ever since I got a smart phone,
but IOT is coming nonetheless and I hope to capitalize on it.

to me it's almost saddening, like we are victims without choices. I do realize it's in context to domain names in this case, but personally I think no matter the context we should never fall prey to a line of thought where something is unstoppable. The only thing that is unstoppable is a train barreling at you full speed at 100 meters away.
Whether or not the Internet infiltrates our Things is up to you and me. Nothing is coming "nonetheless". We are not powerless. As consumers, we choose which machine is fed, and which starves. The machine is dead without us.

Screw the IoT. How about the Humans of Things? How about taking control, rather than being controlled? It is a fallacy to think this stuff makes life easier for us, it merely binds us and makes us dependable upon it.

Ugh.

The next Big Thing is Us. It will always be Us. Not some computerized gidget-gadget. Unless, of course, we allow it.

Agreed Bernard. There is a price to pay. We are already paying it. When is the last time you've seen a family or a group of firends enjoying something REAL, without having their precious device in the air, to capture the moment they are missing right in front of their face??

And as Ostrados says, we don't need a smart fridge. I need my fridge to stay cold. That's it's only job, thank you very much.

 

[Bernard Wright]

@HotKey I very much agree. I'm very curious as to what @DT13 perceives to be the silver lining to it all. Or anyone, for that matter.

 

[enlytend]

we know that IoT will become the biggest spying network FB, Google, Intelligence agencies .. and others ever dreamed about.

You should definitely read up on how the manufacturer will be using your data.

Currently hackers are a big threat. So much if this sh*t is being rushed to production with inadequate security precautions. Find a vuln? Go on Shodan and get a list real time of all the devices you can attack.
Stupid stuff nobody needs.
(Hah - NP is censoring that url)

 

[Ostrados]

You should definitely read up on how the manufacturer will be using your data.

Currently hackers are a big threat. So much if this sh*t is being rushed to production with inadequate security precautions. Find a vuln? Go on Shodan and get a list real time of all the devices you can attack.
Stupid stuff nobody needs.
(Hah - NP is censoring that url)

A famous example is smart TV security issues, it can be easily hacked, thats why it is advised to cover your smart TV camera!

TVs spying on us is just the tip of the iceberg. Is Congress ready to act?

If you have a smart TV, take a closer look at your privacy settings

How to keep your smart TV from spying on you

They can make anything smart, the problem is how can they secure these things?! You cannot install antivirus or anti spam on your smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster, as you can do with your laptop or mobile phone,

 

[enlytend]

They can make anything smart, the problem is how can they secure these things?! You cannot install antivirus or anti spam on your smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster, as you can do with your laptop or mobile phone,

Antivirus and antispam won't protect you against hackers. They're generally not installing viruses - more like accessing cameras and mics or gaining access to other devices on your network ..
You can install pihole on your network to block advertising.
They could make these devices more secure if they tried - as I said, they're rushing cheap products to production and cutting corners - not testing code. They should have rigorous internal pen testing and code review.
Then there are the ones that want everyone to share data. Like Ring. Their policy says they can pretty much do whatever they want with the data, and they do.

 

[biggie]

Hi

I feel you on the comment below:

Then there are the ones that want everyone to share data. Like Ring. Their policy says they can pretty much do whatever they want with the data, and they do.

while watching the tv commercials for ring, you see how they scare off potential criminals while the homeowner is somewhere else?

now am a zon, has garage delivery service in testing, where they can deliver your packages to your garage, for safety.
i'm sure some hacker will find way to open anybody's garage after that.

thinking bout someone said in this thread about iot being inevitable

and then I think, it's the same thing that smith said to neo, in the matrix.

i go to relatives house and they got an alexa box
and the 1yr old knows how to say "google" to communicate with it.

while i'm there, i ask them to unplug it
don't want the box eavesdropping on my convo

remote control was cool, when it first came out for tv's
you didn't have to get up and 'turn the knob' to change the channel anymore.

now, you don't even have to change channel on remote
just speak into that mofo and it will go where you tell it.

i'd hate to wake up early in the morning and go in the kitchen....
and my refrigerator and toaster are looking at me walk around butt naked.

then alexa says, "hey biggie, go put some clothes on, i can see your balls swinging"

or you go outside to get the paper and bend over and ring is looking up your crack, broadcasting it to the neighborhood.
and all the while, your garage door is open, cuz ama zon got hacked and hasn't notified the public yet.

you call the police and on their way, they have accident with a mofo who was sleeping at the wheel, in his self-driving car.

in other news, hackers have taken control of some package delivery drones, making off with thousands of dollars in merchandise.



imo...

 

[enlytend]

And the crazy stuff where they’re trying to implement this technology!
Like smart diapers - to tell you when they need changing. True story.
We already have that, it’s called a “baby.” They can’t text your phone, but they make a very loud noise.

 

[Not a robot]

For those not involved in manufacturing, making a product is VERY VERY hard. Making a secure lock is hard. Making it connects to the Web is harder. A smart lock requires a multitude of engineering expertises - mechanical, electronics, and software. Now, let’s dive in the software part. Typically a lock manufacturer would need to find an IoT module from a semiconductor supplier. The module would come with a prebuilt software stack. The manufacture needs to hire a hardware engineer to build the PCB, and then a firmware engineer to write the firmware. After that, the manufacturer contracts a software engineer to write the cloud service app that sits on a platform run by Amazon or another company. The products needs to go through government certification. Then the manufacturer needs to sell the product.

Here is when things get complicated. After the products leaves the warehouse, the manufacture needs to update the product. However, the semiconductor might then discontinue the module (it actually happened with a well known US company). The firmware stack might be outdated. The library used by the platform might have security vulnerabilities. Amazon might increase service price. At this point, the manufacturer has already burned $500,000 on one product without a single sale.

It’s difficult for a manufacturer to be 100% sure a product cannot be hacked. Locks exist for thousands of years and still can be picked by expert thieves. IoT is only at its infancy and each engineer involved in the process only knows what’s within his/her expertise.

At end of the day, consumers need to be educated on protecting their own privacy (like, stopping using V signal when taking photograph) and be vigilant about it.

Like domaining, the trick is DO YOUR OWN DILLIGENCE.

 

[Bernard Wright]

I don’t trust the tech companies any more than I trust the hackers. And I’m probably not alone in this thinking.

Still waiting for @DT13 to offer some pros to the cons we’re laying out. Or anyone. Why is IoT better than no IoT?

 

[Ostrados]

It’s difficult for a manufacturer to be 100% sure a product cannot be hacked. Locks exist for thousands of years and still can be picked by expert thieves. IoT is only at its infancy and each engineer involved in the process only knows what’s within his/her expertise.

At end of the day, consumers need to be educated on protecting their own privacy (like, stopping using V signal when taking photograph) and be vigilant about it.

Like domaining, the trick is DO YOUR OWN DILLIGENCE.

Yes there is a method to make IoT devices 100% secure: dont make them.. simple.

The problem is that companies are making products that we dont need and enforce them to us as choiceless consumers! after few years I will not be able to find a non-smart TV to buy even if I want a normal TV!

This already happened with mobile phones many years ago, you cannot find a non-smart mobile phone to buy. I can understand the need for smart phones and that they became essential in our life but I cant understand why do I need a smart fridge, what it will make extra other than a normal fridge?!

 

[enlytend]

For those not involved in manufacturing, making a product is VERY VERY hard. Making a secure lock is hard. Making it connects to the Web is harder. A smart lock requires a multitude of engineering expertises - mechanical, electronics, and software. Now, let’s dive in the software part. Typically a lock manufacturer would need to find an IoT module from a semiconductor supplier. The module would come with a prebuilt software stack. The manufacture needs to hire a hardware engineer to build the PCB, and then a firmware engineer to write the firmware. After that, the manufacturer contracts a software engineer to write the cloud service app that sits on a platform run by Amazon or another company. The products needs to go through government certification. Then the manufacturer needs to sell the product.

I completely understand the complexity and difficulty of making and maintaining a secure product.

A lot of people do take responsibility for their own privacy and security, but most average consumers are naive and clueless. There should also be some responsibility in bringing these products to market - especially those from bigger companies who are in a better position financially and structurally to implement robust prerelease testing than some small player that just wants to cash in on a trend on a budget.

You know the only way to make a totally secure computer or other device?
Take it off all networks, lock / seal it in an impenetrable vault, destroy all access keys / codes. Security is about reducing risk while maintaining functionality.

But right now, this class of devices overall is a big, gaping hole.

 

[PeakDots]

I do agree security and privacy are big issues here. Don't want anyone looking at my balls swinging either @biggie LMAO

For me it was the Industrial side of IoT that caught my attention.
Working in construction for over 20 years l can see where a company may benifit from IoT to help them operate more efficiently.
Alerting on equipment PM or before costly breakdowns happen. Warnings of safety hazards to help increase accident prevention (SmartPPE). (Of course I wouldn't rely strictly on this and would use my own judgement when it comes to my safety or safety of others, but anything put in place to increase the safety of human life is a plus imo). I believe the cost of SmartPPE would be minimal to a company compared to an employee death that could have been prevented. Tracking shipping conditions or storage temp on certain products. Sending data on soil and weather conditions to help the agricultural industries better grow their crop.
These or just a few examples of how IIoT can reduce cost and help companies to operate more efficiently.

Just my thoughts on the matter

 

[Bernard Wright]

I thought this was an interesting video.

 

[HotKey]

Love it. Keep it up.. smart phones, smart homes, smart cars.. maybe one day we'll even have smart brains. Oh wait..

Ya I'll hold on to my brass front door key. And I'll go flick on my lights with a, well a light switch. Also, think I'll go turn the knob to find my radio station (gosh that was hard!), maybe even feed a CD into my cd player (OMG!!), and holy moly, put some wood into the fireplace.. and wait for it..

I'm gonna write on my my calendar to remind me about birthdays (insane eh?) works even when the hydro goes out!

Check this out.. going to OPEN my fridge to see what food I need to go shopping for (sooo primitive)..

When I'm done making a grocery list, gonna hop in my car and use a steering wheel, along with brake and gas pedals, even a gear shift to get me there! Think I'l also use my MEMORY to help me remember how to get there!

Think I'll give the kids a pair of walkie-talkies, couple kilometers range- might be fun, I know with one of those super-phones we could like video-conference and all... but where's the 10-4 in that?? Plus- no contract with the telco required with the walkie-talkies... holy crapanoli!

Feels so weird, to be using all this time, living, rather than not living by being "smart".

The IoT, Artificial Intelligence, SmartDevices, we are really missing an opportunity here. The whole world should jump on board, we will be so smart.

Over-Out.

 

[Ostrados]

Love it. Keep it up.. smart phones, smart homes, smart cars.. maybe one day we'll even have smart brains. Oh wait..

Ya I'll hold on to my brass front door key. And I'll go flick on my lights with a, well a light switch. Also, think I'll go turn the knob to find my radio station (gosh that was hard!), maybe even feed a CD into my cd player (OMG!!), and holy moly, put some wood into the fireplace.. and wait for it..

I'm gonna write on my my calendar to remind me about birthdays (insane eh?) works even when the hydro goes out!

Check this out.. going to OPEN my fridge to see what food I need to go shopping for (sooo primitive)..

When I'm done making a grocery list, gonna hop in my car and use a steering wheel, along with brake and gas pedals, even a gear shift to get me there! Think I'l also use my MEMORY to help me remember how to get there!

99% of what they offer by smart drvices and IoT are nonessential, unneeded mini luxuries for the exchange of your privacy and ultimately your freedom.

Bad choice to me.. no thank you I will pass!

 

[Internet.Domains]

Technology can be used in good ways or bad. It can save lives as well as destroy lives. It can be argued both ways. I believe goodness will succeed. Here is a famous quote that can be applied to technology:

"I know in my heart that man is good, that what is right will always eventually triumph, and there is purpose and worth to each and every life."

 

[J Sokol]

i go to relatives house and they got an alexa box
and the 1yr old knows how to say "google" to communicate with it.

This is the scariest part of the "smart" life -- we have so little control over it. In any public place we can expect to be photographed, recorded, and tracked. They know exactly where we are when we are going about our daily lives and there's little we can do about it.

 

[biggie]

They know exactly where we are when we are going about our daily lives and there's little we can do about it.

yeah, and an even scarier part is, that we don't know who "they" is

the predictions are coming true with the "Ring doorbell" incidents and other home security devices, where hackers are viewing and even communicating with people, by surprise... in their homes.

and I saw on tv the other day, where a man called police because he heard some noises in his house.
turns out, that the "iRobot" vacuum had turned itself on and was sweeping the floor.

just saying////

imo...

 

[J Sokol]

yeah, and an even scarier part is, that we don't know who "they" is

That's why I didn't specify who "they" was -- no one knows, and it's probably an eclectic group of people unknown even to each other.

Creepy stuff ...