information HSTF.com: Seller gets questioned about value, raises price

[News]

Chase asserts to have built Hostifi.net—now Hostifi.com—into a SaaS services provider that has generated $7 million dollars in revenue. There are no references to the net profits, however it should be sufficient leftover to acquire HSTF.com for $12,000 dollars.

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[MKA]

I think the concept of Chinese and Western premiums is getting a little mixed up.

Here's my understanding:

Chinese premiums are premium because of some insane voodoo no one understands.

It's because they correspond to Chinese han.

Kassey Lee had a good article on it. He even brings up some good examples.

https://domainnamewire.com/2020/03/...s-are-interesting-from-a-chinese-perspective/

But it's important to note that these aren't valuable anymore. Why? Because the speculation never caught on. Sure, a notable party of the Chinese domains still us abbreviated domains 4% or so. But it's substantially less the other categories (pinyin, pseudo-english, numeric, etc.).

Western premiums are premium simply because a LOT of companies use these letters in their business names.

e.g. If my company name is ''OHANA HOLDING COMPANY LLC" (I just searched "holding company" on open corporates and took the first one that grabbed my eye as an example) I might want to grab ohcl.com either as a primary domain, internal intranet gateway, or redirect.

Many such cases.

Then on top of that there are at least 4 companies that have used those letters in their brand name.

e.g. OHCL Electric Company.

Fewer using J's, K's, and Z's etc.

No, I understand where he's coming from. Domains ending with g for group, l for limited, c for company, etc.

But there are nuances here that are being overlooked. And you're highlighting one of them. Ohana Holding Company LLC should use ohana.com. What reason do they have to use OHCL or OHCLLC? Who would even try to reach them through those domains? Holding, Company, and L (Limited Liability Company) are legal terms that are separate from the brand. Similarly things like G for group may also be dropped.

You're always going to find good companies with stupid domains (e.g. google.com) but the reason people don't aim for those kind of names is because they don't adhere to patterns that reliably sell.

 

[Recons.Com]

This is not difficult to proof check. Take recent LLLL.com sales ending in g.

you have hard time following simple criteria... Please re-read which letters the names can have.

 

[Kyle Tully]

It's because they correspond to Chinese han.

I know

Ohana Holding Company LLC should use ohana.com. What reason do they have to use OHCL or OHCLLC?

I can think of about a million $ reasons.

 

[bmugford]

I don't think asking low $XX,XXX for a solid LLLL.com is all that unreasonable. I have sold several in that range.

The reseller price is kind of irrelevant when it comes to an end user sale. If you are looking for a specific domain, there is nothing comparable.

To illustrate that point, there was a specific domain I wanted a few years back that was (still is) worth about $500 - $1000 reseller. I offered $20K+ because I had a specific need for the domain.

The buyer turned down the offer. If they came back to me now my offer would be much lower.

Domain prices are fluid. It really depends on the buyer, seller, usage, and budget.

The original post by the potential buyer is not very productive. A deal somewhere in the middle might have been possible but all a post like that would do is burn bridges.

Brad

 

[MKA]

None of those 3-figure sales are premiums.

V's, K's, J's, X's galore.

Sorry, here you go.

Most recent LLLe.com domain sales:

ltde.com $436,
llpe.com $345.

It's further important to note that anything below $1,000 isn't a premium. It's not worth the escrow fees, commissions, renewals, risk, and effort. And by that stretch you can add efae.com.

Of course, you shouldn't expect more than a few "western premiums" for these searches based off probability alone.

 

[Kyle Tully]

Interestingly if you follow the rabbit trail of my random example ohcl.com you’ll see it’s up for sale for $33k, and the owner has a portfolio of over 12k names, a huge chunk of which are 4L going back to the late 90’s.

But I’m sure there’s nothing to see here and you’re right that these are worthless.

 

[MKA]

First and foremost, ohcl.com isn't a western premium because O isn't allowed.

But the question is not what it could sell for, the question is what the probability of finding a client is within a certain time frame. It wouldn't be impossible for a business to pick up ohcl.com for it's listed price, heck I could pick it up out of pocket. But again, that's not the question. What's the probability of it selling for that in 10 years, 20 years, or 100 years?

And for ohcl.com I'd argue that it's abysmal.

You're free to invest in these lottery tickets if you want. But as far as I'm concerned the four-letter .com market fell when the Chinese market lost interest in them.

 

[Andreas B.]

Bookmarked this thread.

Lots to learn, thank you

 

[MKA]

Bookmarked this thread.

Lots to learn, thank you

Another thing you might want to take note of is the NNNN.com domains, because the Chinese market is still all over that one.

Notice the consistency.

Granted, there are desirable patterns for NNNN.com domains too. But this is what a four-figure wholesale baseline should look like: No overly-complicated rules, no cherry-picking, etc.

 

[Recons.Com]

First and foremost, ohcl.com isn't a western premium because O isn't allowed.

But the question is not what it could sell for, the question is what the probability of finding a client is within a certain time frame. It wouldn't be impossible for a business to pick up ohcl.com for it's listed price, heck I could pick it up out of pocket. But again, that's not the question. What's the probability of it selling for that in 10 years, 20 years, or 100 years?

And for ohcl.com I'd argue that it's abysmal.

You're free to invest in these lottery tickets if you want. But as far as I'm concerned the four-letter .com market fell when the Chinese market lost interest in them.

O is a west premium. Just in first and last position has less possible uses. It is awesome in 2 and 3 and, in most cases will make it pronounceable, which is huge bonus.

I didn't include in my list for that reason, but most will have it in

 

[ipus.com]

I'd correct you, but you're are being purposely vague here with "great letters with great placement." There are plenty of LLLL.com that are listed for $200 on Sedo and still don't sell.

Show attachment 255849

Granted, hstf.com has more desirable letters, but you'd not get $250 for it wholesale here.


Home Security Task Force doesn't even seem like a company name.

But going back to CCCC.com domains. Here are the latest sales.

Show attachment 255850

Note how none of them even break into the four figures.


Then there's no point in spending any money on it. Just hand-reg hstifi.com.

Why do you only publish negative results?
See the latest sales

 

[MKA]

O is a west premium. Just in first and last position has less possible uses. It is awesome in 2 and 3 and, in most cases will make it pronounceable, which is huge bonus.

I didn't include in my list for that reason, but most will have it in

If the rules are arbitrary then that's an argument against the validity of the category.

Why do you only publish negative results?
See the latest sales

I publish the most recent result, sorted by date. It's as impartial as it can be.

I'm not even sure what your list filter is supposed to be. From what I can tell it's by sales over $3,000 from the beginning of the year. This is of course misleading, since it omits the majority of the sales and focuses on outliers.

But what's funny with your list is that 8 out of 11 are not even considered "western premiums." Again, this is an argument against the category.

 

[ipus.com]

If the rules are arbitrary then that's an argument against the validity of the category.


I publish the most recent result, sorted by date. It's as impartial as it can be.

I'm not even sure what your list filter is supposed to be. From what I can tell it's by sales over $3,000 from the beginning of the year. This is of course misleading, since it omits the majority of the sales and focuses on outliers.

But what's funny with your list is that 8 out of 11 are not even considered "western premiums." Again, this is an argument against the category.

Your presentation of the results was not objective
Good close sales

 

[Future Sensors]

It is time to come to a consensus.

 

[Sutruk]

Just because someone has made a bit of money on a project doesn't mean that they're obligated to share that with domain owners. Millionaires don't pay $100 for a burger, now do they?

What are you talking about? Who said he is obligated to share anything with anyone?

There's a price for that domain, and the guy is complaining on his twitter because in his own words "17 years and no buyers so the market says it’s not worth $12K"

Qlar is a decent domain for an app, because people will call it "clar," "klar," or "qlar", whereas hstf will always be "haitch-ess-tee-eff." So it's not even comparable.

Qlar is a decent domain because you say it? And hstf is not comparable because you say it.. Ok, that's your opinion man. Good for you, but not necessarily the same opinion as the domain owner nor as anyone else's opinion.

Four-letter western premiums is not a category.

And that's why I remarked that between "marks" because it seems that the buyer justifies his complaints putting this domain in the "four-letter western premium" whatever it is.

The fact is that the domain has four letters, is a .com and the owner can ask what he wants because it's his domain, no more and no less.

Take it or leave it. Or go for the .fi or .co because those crappy extensions will "save him 1 or 2 characters"

They will not just save him 1 or 2 characters, but also will leak a lot of traffic to the .com, the real king.

Now, since Mr. Chase is looking for a shortener, the best would be a domain hack like hst.fi (it's going to save him 2 characters over hstf.com) or hstf.co (saves him 1 character over hstf.com).

 

[forge]

CNBC
LPGA
BASF
BOFA (bad example, plus the dreaded "O")

All worthless.

But @MKA is right, I should be able to readily present more examples.

I will also (reluctantly) agree that HSTF isn't the greatest iteration of Hostifi (or Hostify?). And talk about turf wars...

 

[Sutruk]

Other "four-letter western premium" .com sales to show to the potential buyer. Maybe he likes more this part of the table.

By the way @MKA how easy are pronounced the following ones?

spcm.com

49,995 USD

2020-08-30

DomainMarket

ntwk.com

49,999 USD

2019-10-10

Sedo

skrt.com

50,000 USD

2020-06-30

GoDaddy

bfcm.com

56,501 USD

2019-12-05

GoDaddy

smkt.com	75,000 USD	2022-01-16	Afternic
pmrc.com	58,000 USD	2020-10-31	GoDaddy

tzgz.com	43,000 USD	2019-03-08	Sedo
ndvr.com	40,000 USD	2019-01-08	Sedo

 

[forge]

pmrc.com "This site can't be reached."

tzgz.com "Page not found."

LOL, just playing devil's advocate.

 

[DomainNature]

My advice to the interested buyer.
If you don't own the COM drop your loots and go grow potatoes!
P.s. can someone explain what the heck is Western Premium? First time I hear such in domaining.

 

[equity78]

No it wasn't, the LLLL.com became a thing after westerners realized that weird LLLL.com letter-soups sold. Not realizing that it the Chinese market was the driving force here.


Compare these arbitrary rules to the Chinese premiums.

You could get $1,000 for a domain if it did not contain a, e, i, o, u, or v. I.e. you could use any of 20 letters with no rules of placement or anything like that. And that's what you could liquidate them for.

You can't do that for "western premiums." You need to actively find a buyer.

Take a look at the list.

Show attachment 255894

A "western premium" selling for $19.


No one uses these domains.

Even if you look for successful companies that use four-letter letter-soups like ebay or etsy, these are not premium according to you because they end in a "y."

Meanwhile where are the companies that use unpronounceable garbage like hstf.com? Because I haven't seen them.

GTPR.com did not sell for $19 https://namebio.com/gtpr.com

 

[equity78]

And yes some are paying $100 or more for hamburgers

Le Burger Brasserie at the Paris casino in Las Vegas was not about to be outdone by Mandalay Bay, so they offer the $777 Burger. It is made from Kobe beef and comes topped with Maine lobster, caramelized onions, imported brie cheese, and 100-year-old balsamic vinegar. They serve it with a bottle of Dom Perignon, just for good measure.

Serendipty 3 in New York City serves up Le Burger Extravagant for $295. The Wagyu beef in this burger is infused with white truffle butter and topped with caviar, shaved black truffles, cave-aged cheddar cheese, and a fried quail egg. Instead of a traditional frilly toothpick holding the burger together, this one is gold and encrusted in diamonds.

At DB Bistro Moderne, also in New York City, Chef Daniel Bouloud created the DB Royale Double Truffle Burger. This one is made from ground sirloin that is stuffed with foie gras, wine-braised short ribs and black truffle. It is topped off with horseradish-tomato confit and two more layers of black truffle. The DB Royale will set you back $140 and is only available seasonally.

https://gunthertoodys.com/es/most-expensive-burgers/

 

[MKA]

Your presentation of the results was not objective
Good close sales

They are the most recent sales, completely unfiltered. How are they not objective in representing the sales data?

What are you talking about? Who said he is obligated to share anything with anyone?

You implied it by mentioning that he had made $7 million off his businesses.

There's a price for that domain, and the guy is complaining on his twitter because in his own words "17 years and no buyers so the market says it’s not worth $12K"

It's not, as demonstrated by the sales data presented in the thread.

Qlar is a decent domain because you say it?

No, it's decent because it's pronounceable, like I explained in the post you're replying to. If you're going to ignore my explanations why even bother replying?

That said, do I think it's worth what it sold for, e.g. would it sell for that if it ended up on the market again? No. I think it's an outlier.

And hstf is not comparable because you say it.

No, because it's not pronounceable. It's an absolute nightmare to market.

Take it or leave it. Or go for the .fi or .co because those crappy extensions will "save him 1 or 2 characters"

This highlights that you don't really understand what's going on here. He was considering to buy hstf.com as a shortener. Just like youtube.com uses youtu.be for their shared links.

Other "four-letter western premium" .com sales to show to the potential buyer. Maybe he likes more this part of the table.

By the way @MKA how easy are pronounced the following ones?

spcm.com

49,995 USD

2020-08-30

DomainMarket

ntwk.com

49,999 USD

2019-10-10

Sedo

skrt.com

50,000 USD

2020-06-30

GoDaddy

bfcm.com

56,501 USD

2019-12-05

GoDaddy

smkt.com	75,000 USD	2022-01-16	Afternic
pmrc.com	58,000 USD	2020-10-31	GoDaddy

tzgz.com	43,000 USD	2019-03-08	Sedo
ndvr.com	40,000 USD	2019-01-08	Sedo

Out of those 8 sales only 2 are "western premiums." What does that tell you? Because it tells me that "western premiums" is a made-up domain category with no inherent benefit.

But even then, these are just outlier sales. We could do this for any nonsense.

Example:

Look at that, recent sales of long hyphenated domains in the five figures. What an untapped gold mine.

Cherry-picking high-end sales doesn't work for any category. Because there are always going to be statistical outliers.

CNBC
LPGA
BASF
BOFA (bad example, plus the dreaded "O")

All worthless.

But @MKA is right, I should be able to readily present more examples.

It's not the number of examples, it's the number of examples versus the number of counter-examples together with the sales frequency.

And there's a very easy way to figure this out. Just look at the most recent sales for a particular category.

Take .xyz sales. Why are so few people here investing in .xyz domains when Swetha consistently manages to sell these domains for five figures? Because most .xyz sales are in the three figures. Whether Swetha is engaging in some kind of insider market manipulation, or whether she's a talented active seller doesn't really matter, because the result is the same: we can't sell these domains for that much.

My advice to the interested buyer.
If you don't own the COM drop your loots and go grow potatoes!

His brand is Hostifi and he does own hostifi.com. He's looking for a shortener to save characters when posting links on Twitter.

P.s. can someone explain what the heck is Western Premium? First time I hear such in domaining.

It's supposedly, a four-letter .com domain, where the first letters are one of the following: R, T, P, S, D, F, G, H, L, C, B, N, or M, and ends with one of the letters F, S, G, L, N, C, or R.

And, apparently, if you feel like it you can include the letter O.

GTPR.com did not sell for $19 https://namebio.com/gtpr.com

I'm not sure where he got his data from, but it's not unlikely to be a typo. Since 901 contains the numbers 19.

But that doesn't explain the recent sales of "western premiums" for $200.

And yes some are paying $100 or more for hamburgers

You're missing the point of the allegory. It's a different burger, and that place will charge you $100 (or more) whether you're living from wage-to-wage or whether you're a billionaire.

And it's been almost a week now and hstf.com is still for sale. And I'm sure this will be the case a week from now, a month from now, a year from now, ten years from now, and so on, (statistically it's unlikely to sell in 17 years) and who knows how the domain market will look then.

 

[equity78]

You're missing the point of the allegory. It's a different burger, and that place will charge you $100 (or more) whether you're living from wage-to-wage or whether you're a billionaire.

It was a joke I knew what you were saying.

 

[Sutruk]

You implied it by mentioning that he had made $7 million off his businesses.

I didn't imply a sh*t. Don't put in my mouth things that I haven't said.
The $7M amount is on his twitter profile.

It's not, as demonstrated by the sales data presented in the thread.

So, I said "there's a price for that domain" (the price the domain owner has put for it) and you say the domain doesn't have a price because you demonstrated it by the sales data? You must be joking.

Now we will all have to ask you what price we should put on our domains, because you are the one that demonstrates a domain price by your sales data (the wholesale data that you want show of course).

Please, more jokes because you are so funny!

No, because it's not pronounceable. It's an absolute nightmare to market.

Hahaha. It may be a nightmare for you, as it's clearly demonstrated by how are you triggered by the price the OWNER has put on this domain.

I imagine that the following sales are more than a nightmare for you and won't let you sleep well at nights for over a year

spcm.com

49,950 USD

2020-08-30

DomainMarket

ntwk.com

49,999 USD

2019-10-10

Sedo

skrt.com

50,000 USD

2020-06-30

GoDaddy

bfcm.com

56,501 USD

2019-12-05

GoDaddy

smkt.com	75,000 USD	2022-01-16	Afternic
pmrc.com	58,000 USD	2020-10-31	GoDaddy

tzgz.com	43,000 USD	2019-03-08	Sedo
ndvr.com	40,000 USD	2019-01-08	Sedo

 

[Sutruk]

Out of those 8 sales only 2 are "western premiums." What does that tell you? Because it tells me that "western premiums" is a made-up domain category with no inherent benefit.

Out of those 8 sales 8 are 4 letter .coms, even if they are a nightmare for you