information HSTF.com: Seller gets questioned about value, raises price

[News]

Chase asserts to have built Hostifi.net—now Hostifi.com—into a SaaS services provider that has generated $7 million dollars in revenue. There are no references to the net profits, however it should be sufficient leftover to acquire HSTF.com for $12,000 dollars.

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[Recons.Com]

There are 98 domains of this type listed on Sedo for $250 or less. Bump that up to $500 (your minimum) and you've got 1,049. I'm sure you'd find something if you believed what you were saying.

Why don't you find one of hstf caliber under 500$ to support your argument?

 

[Jannes]

It's not. You rephrased your argument to "Fi sometimes connotes finance" which makes it a moot point.

Straw man #2.
End of thread for me #2.

 

[MKA]

Why don't you find one of hstf caliber under 500$ to support your argument?

For two reasons.

1. The criteria you provide are arbitrary. Whatever I find (regardless of the quality) you're going to excuse as being of lower quality because it's listed for $500 and it's not selling, so you don't want to buy it.
2. There's nothing in it for me.

But it's clear. You're effectively admitting that there's money to be made by calling it wholesale pricing, but you're not willing to spend 10 minutes to go through the domains.

Straw man #2.
End of thread for me #2.

I think you missed the point. The disclaimer "sometimes" adds a degree of ambiguity to the argument that makes it pointless. Hence my example that Fi may also sometimes stand for Finland.

 

[Recons.Com]

But it's clear. You're effectively admitting that there's money to be made by calling it wholesale pricing, but you're not willing to spend 10 minutes to go through the domains.

I did check. There is nothing of hstf caliber under 500.

Here is the clue for you:

Has to have only these letters:

R T P S D F G H L C B N M

Has to end in of these: F, S, G, L, N, C, R

 

[Andreas B.]

For two reasons.

1. The criteria you provide are arbitrary. Whatever I find (regardless of the quality) you're going to excuse as being of lower quality because it's listed for $500 and it's not selling, so you don't want to buy it.
2. There's nothing in it for me.

But it's clear. You're effectively admitting that there's money to be made by calling it wholesale pricing, but you're not willing to spend 10 minutes to go through the domains.


I think you missed the point. The disclaimer "sometimes" adds a degree of ambiguity to the argument that makes your argument pointless. Hence my example that Fi may also sometimes stand for Finland.

Do you want to say, that $12k for that particular 4 letter domain, is overpriced / not fair?

It might be out of the ordinary (as there are many other 4 letter domains for 3 digit prices, as you've shown), - that's true.

But again:

That one particular buyer by intention search for exactly that 4 letter combination.

And: The real gem is, that seller did not price the domain at $500.

But at $12k.

Means: This does not seem like someone, who desperately has to sell its domains, but as someone, who knows what he does (and has enough savings, to renew his names)...

The core of domaining I would say

Greets

 

[Jannes]

I think you missed the point. The disclaimer "sometimes" adds a degree of ambiguity to the argument that makes your argument pointless. Hence my example that Fi may also sometimes stand for Finland.

You're the one who added it.
End of thread for me #3.

 

[AEProgram]

I would set the price at 35k but honor prior recent prices I gave for a limited time.

 

[MKA]

Do you want to say, that $12k for that particular 4 letter domain, is overpriced / not fair?

Definitely. If it's something pronounceable, had a certain pattern/repetition, or was a commonly understood abbreviation. then it could warrant five figures. But this is just letter-soup.

It might be out of the ordinary (as there are many other 4 letter domains for 3 digit prices, as you've shown), - that's true.

But again:

That one particular buyer by intention search for exactly that 4 letter combination.

Yes, and that's the one and only buyer for that domain. Once that buyer settles for something else, it's over.

And: The real gem is, that seller did not price the domain at $500.

But at $12k.

Means: This does not seem like someone, who desperately has to sell its domains, but as someone, who knows what he does (and has enough savings, to renew his names)...

The core of domaining I would say

Greets

There are plenty of poorly priced domains, like these beauties right here:

The truth of the matter is that there are plenty of domain investors with their heads in the clouds.

But whether the owner needs to sell the domain to put food on the table doesn't change the fact that the domains aren't priced to sell.

The owner of Hostifi said it himself, this domain isn't worth more than $2,000. Sure, he could spend the $15,000 on it. But I wouldn't be surprised if this domain is still listed for sale a month from now.

 

[MKA]

You're the one who added it.
End of thread for me #3.

"Sometimes" and "often" are the same thing in this context.

And that's after you changed your position.

The point was about what word+fi denotes, not about what's taken.

And if you're going to storm out of the thread, then do it. Don't just say you'll do and then return.

 

[silentg]

Not a fan of the buyers who go on Twitter to rant about the price of the domain.

Reminds of SmallBets.com - Buyer did the same thing and eventually bought the domain after agreeing with Francois to buy the domain for a $$ + domains trade deal.

 

[Sutruk]

As the buyer that brags about earning $7M on his twitter likes to post some comps there, the seller can show him also some comps he may like more:

Domain	Price	Date	Venue

nuum.com	150,000 USD	2023-10-11	Sedo
bezi.com	95,000 USD	2023-10-12	Atom.com
qlar.com	81,857 USD	2023-11-22	Sedo

I guess the qlar price would fit better for this "4 letter western premium" .com desired one.

Unless the buyer is interested in some of the other "4 letter western premium" .coms that are in his list, and that happens to have nothing to do with his desired 4 letter western premium .com

 

[Sutruk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781387710957007078

According to the buyer... "17 years and no buyers so the market says it’s not worth $12K"

Maybe he can try that argument to buy htf.com, it has been in the market since 1997. Maybe they will sell it to him for $10 bucks, you know, because "it has been 27 years and no buyers"

 

[Acroplex]

The seller might never sell at this price but the buyer won't benefit from downgrading the domain's value in order to buy it cheaper. The buyer is simply being frugal for something that fits the intended purpose 100%. Does he have other options? Of course. He can get hstf.co or .me at reg fee. But he wants the .com so his angle is flawed: When negotiating on a domain, never ever question its value. Personally, I tell them to GFY (go find yourself) another domain.

 

[Recons.Com]

The buyer is not wrong. When he says it is not worth over $2k, he basically means that it is not worth FOR HIM.

As, using a great name like HSTF as a shortener, especially, with the shortener thing being in the past with the twitter/sms limits of 168 chars, he probably cannot justify paying over that for, basically, a vanity.

But for someone owning HSTF in a cctld or whose acronym is the exact match and helps them to use 4 letters instead of 20-30 whenever convenient (let's say, last names of four lawyers, or Houston Special Task Force or whatever), the name is well worth 5 figures.

Now, what this Chase guy should be chasing is Hostify.com as I am sure he is leaking lots of traffic and emails there and wastes a lot of time orally explaining that hostifi is spelled with fi and not like spotify. But, he is out of luck, as that is a developed project and he will not be able to buy that at all.

Hence, when a business sees a name it likes for, basically, couple of airline tickets, it should go like, yeah, I am not paying that for a dumb URL, but think that they are lucky that it is even available.

 

[MKA]

As the buyer that brags about earning $7M on his twitter likes to post some comps there,

Just because someone has made a bit of money on a project doesn't mean that they're obligated to share that with domain owners. Millionaires don't pay $100 for a burger, now do they?

the seller can show him also some comps he may like more:

Domain	Price	Date	Venue

nuum.com	150,000 USD	2023-10-11	Sedo
bezi.com	95,000 USD	2023-10-12	Atom.com
qlar.com	81,857 USD	2023-11-22	Sedo

I guess the qlar price would fit better for this "4 letter western premium" .com desired one.

These are all different in that they're all pronounceable. Also, Nuum is the brand name of nuumdesign.com, and Bezi is a nickname and surname.

But it's worth noting that the pronounceable makes them different. Qlar is a decent domain for an app, because people will call it "clar," "klar," or "qlar", whereas hstf will always be "haitch-ess-tee-eff." So it's not even comparable.
It's further worth noting that you're looking at high-end sales, which is not a good point of reference. Because it's like looking at winning lottery tickets and use that as an argument for playing the lottery.

Unless the buyer is interested in some of the other "4 letter western premium" .coms that are in his list, and that happens to have nothing to do with his desired 4 letter western premium .com

Four-letter western premiums is not a category. There was only ever four-letter Chinese premiums, and that was because you could easily liquidate any of them for $1,000 back in the day (and they weren't removing over half of the alphabet either). Abbreviations in the west rarely go beyond three letters. The reason for the four-letter Chinese premiums is because Chinese brands often used four han characters, and so you took the first letter of the pinyin for each han. Granted, this didn't really catch on to the extent people thought it would, so you can't really get the $1,000 for qxjh.com anymore.

Now, since Mr. Chase is looking for a shortener, the best would be a domain hack like hst.fi (it's going to save him 2 characters over hstf.com) or hstf.co (saves him 1 character over hstf.com).

 

[Recons.Com]

Four-letter western premiums is not a category.

you are wrong. That was a thing even before the Chinese thing and continues after... It includes some vowels too (a,i,e, and, conditionally, o).

Basically, if a 4L:

a) ends in A, I, E, G, S, T, F, R, L, D, C, N (12 letters)

and the other 3 letters are:

b) E, R, T, I, P, A, S, D, F, G, H, L, C, B, N, M (16 letters), then

The Acronym is very valuable. The wholesale price will range in 500$ to $2000 for most and retail will be in high xxxx to low xxxxx for most.

There are only 49152 possible combos of those out of 456976 LLLL.coms in existence, i.e. only around 11%.

Most of those 49k are in use or just not for sale. I'd estimate, only between 10k to 20k of those are offered for sale. Majority in $8k to 25k region.

 

[Centauri]

Well interesting discussion.

One says sale was (just) luck, other says it was / could be calculated upfront.

However, great for the seller.

Maybe, he knew / thought that owner of hostifi_net could use an abbreviation, and therefore priced the name hstf_com accordingly?

Who knows...

 

[MKA]

you are wrong. That was a thing even before the Chinese thing and continues after... It includes some vowels too (a,i,e, and, conditionally, o).

No it wasn't, the LLLL.com became a thing after westerners realized that weird LLLL.com letter-soups sold. Not realizing that it the Chinese market was the driving force here.

Basically, if a 4L:

a) ends in A, I, E, G, S, T, F, R, L, D, C, N (12 letters)

and the other 3 letters are:

b) E, R, T, I, P, A, S, D, F, G, H, L, C, B, N, M (16 letters), then

The Acronym is very valuable. The wholesale price will range in 500$ to $2000 for most and retail will be in high xxxx to low xxxxx for most.

Compare these arbitrary rules to the Chinese premiums.

You could get $1,000 for a domain if it did not contain a, e, i, o, u, or v. I.e. you could use any of 20 letters with no rules of placement or anything like that. And that's what you could liquidate them for.

You can't do that for "western premiums." You need to actively find a buyer.

Take a look at the list.

A "western premium" selling for $19.

There are only 49152 possible combos of those out of 456976 LLLL.coms in existence, i.e. only around 11%.

Most of those 49k are in use or just not for sale. I'd estimate, only between 10k to 20k of those are offered for sale. Majority in $8k to 25k region.

No one uses these domains.

Even if you look for successful companies that use four-letter letter-soups like ebay or etsy, these are not premium according to you because they end in a "y."

Meanwhile where are the companies that use unpronounceable garbage like hstf.com? Because I haven't seen them.

 

[Recons.Com]

Meanwhile where are the companies that use unpronounceable garbage like hstf.com? Because I haven't seen them.

https://hstf.in/

Email Address​

[email protected]
[email protected]

Call Us​

+91 7619517550


====

https://hstf.org.uk/

Hastings Sustainable Transport Forum​

====

http://hstffc.com/

HengShui TaiFeng Real Estate Development Co

====


http://hstfgd.com/

Another Chinese company

===

hstfi.com - your friends from hostifi

======

https://hstfitness.com/

Harry S Taylor Fitness

====

http://hstfire.com/

HSTFire

===

https://hstfood.com/fa/

Haman Shahd Tos Food

====

Here is a partial list from 5 min quick search for companies who'd love to have HSFT, provided they understand the value of a good domain.

I suspect even this won't help you though.

 

[Recons.Com]

A "western premium" selling for $19.

Right. They even sold for $8. People bought LL.com for $70. Wow, that must be the value for those.

Here is the deal. Find me the names that match my criteria above that no one wants for under $500 and I will buy a few and pay you $50 finder fee for each.

 

[MKA]

https://hstf.in/

Email Address​

[email protected]
[email protected]

Call Us​

+91 7619517550


====

https://hstf.org.uk/

Hastings Sustainable Transport Forum​

====

http://hstffc.com/

HengShui TaiFeng Real Estate Development Co

====


http://hstfgd.com/

Another Chinese company

===

hstfi.com - your friends from hostifi

======

https://hstfitness.com/

Harry S Taylor Fitness

====

http://hstfire.com/

HSTFire

===

https://hstfood.com/fa/

Haman Shahd Tos Food

====

Here is a partial list from 5 min quick search for companies who'd love to have HSFT, provided they understand the value of a good domain.

I suspect even this won't help you though.

These sites with no traffic are your go-to?

Also, it's funny that you're trying to associate a "western premiums with a Chinese business. Because here hstf.com is also a Chinese premium (not that it matters, because hstffc.com isn't an active site).

Admittedly I worded myself a bit poorly, I didn't mean minor businesses that could upgrade to hstf.com. I meant what kind of big corporations use "western premiums?"

Before I move on, let me remind you why the .com is more valuable than all other TLD:s: Because it's used by all the large corporations, which has built recognition and trust over the years.

The same reason line of reason applies to types of SLD:s. And we can see this with all domain categories.

• Generic: Amazon, Apple, Caterpillar (uses both cat.com and caterpillar.com), Oracle, Paramount, Target, Universal, etc.
• 3 letter abbreviations: ABC, BMW, HBO, IBM, UPS, WBD (wb.com redirects to wbd.com), WSJ
• Short 2-word brandables: CloudFlare, FaceBook, MasterCard, MicroSoft, StarBucks, TechCrunch
• ...

The point is, you can find world-renowned businesses that use these kind of domains. And this sets a precedent that other businesses aspire to follow, because it has a certain inertia of trust with potential clients.

But when you start to look at four-letter ones (that aren't generic), you'll think of: ebay, etsy, sony, etc. but these aren't "western premiums." So where are the megacorporations using "western premiums?" Because if there's no precedent and no real market, then they're worthless.

And no, it doesn't matter that some famous domainer once gas-lighted a client into thinking that spending five figures on such a domain was a good decision. Grifts happens all the time. What matters is the market flow.

Right. They even sold for $8. People bought LL.com for $70. Wow, that must be the value for those.

What I posted was recent sales. What happened 20 years ago isn't relevant to today's market.

Here is the deal. Find me the names that match my criteria above that no one wants for under $500 and I will buy a few and pay you $50 finder fee for each.

Sure. And I'll hold you to that.

 

[Recons.Com]

Sure. And I'll hold you to that.

Please do! Any reasonable person here will tell you there is no way a western prem 4L sells for $19. That is pure BS and ended up there due to some bug, misreporting, interrupted auction etc.

So you have never heard of a large western company using western prem 4L? How large it has to be?

E.g. MSCI.com (35 bn market cap) PSEG.com 33 bn, CBRE.com 27 bn, CBOE 19bn

 

[Kyle Tully]

I think the concept of Chinese and Western premiums is getting a little mixed up.

Here's my understanding:

Chinese premiums are premium because of some insane voodoo no one understands.

Western premiums are premium simply because a LOT of companies use these letters in their business names.

e.g. If my company name is ''OHANA HOLDING COMPANY LLC" (I just searched "holding company" on open corporates and took the first one that grabbed my eye as an example) I might want to grab ohcl.com either as a primary domain, internal intranet gateway, or redirect.

Many such cases.

Then on top of that there are at least 4 companies that have used those letters in their brand name.

e.g. OHCL Electric Company.

Fewer using J's, K's, and Z's etc.

 

[MKA]

Please do! Any reasonable person here will tell you there is no way a western prem 4L sells for $19. That is pure BS and ended up there due to some bug, misreporting, interrupted auction etc.

Sure, but what about all the other that went for low three-figures. Those are barely worth holding on to because the registration and renewal fees together with escrow/commission alone will not yield any notable profit.

This is not difficult to proof check. Take recent LLLL.com sales ending in g.

Granted, you could argue that these are picked up by speculators, and I'd agree. But that only proves the point. These are not desirable to end-users.

So you have never heard of a large western company using western prem 4L? How large it has to be?

E.g. MSCI.com (35 bn market cap) PSEG.com 33 bn, CBRE.com 27 bn, CBOE 19bn

I've not heard of any of these companies. Look at the examples I gave. These were at the top of my head. If you ask 10 random people on the street will any of them know of it? Most people know of Target, most people know of BMW, most people know of MicroSoft.

It gets worse when you consider the fact that the brand comes before the abbreviation, and not only are three-letter abbreviations more common than four-letter abbreviations, there are a lot more four-letter combinations than three-letter combinations.

 

[Kyle Tully]

Show attachment 255925

None of those 3-figure sales are premiums.

V's, K's, J's, X's galore.