strategy How to sell a [brandx].com to multinational company owning brand x ?

[Iken]

Hi all,

Since 1998 I registered a [BRANDNAME].com that is a big brand that many people in the world know.

Early 2000 there were two attempts to scare me with big treats of lawsuits and stuff like that but I never was really scared and they just stopped at one point and registered a .com (brand name and added word) and some ctld's worldwide. But still, I own the .com they really want or better should want. Why? Because all those years I get daily email (big orders, figures, internal reports, complaints, employee email, internal email, and so on...). Really, the list is endless. What strikes me is how clueless they all are and never ever tried to contact me (whois protect email).

I don't have to explain you all that I can't approach them directly so my question to all of you, what can I do to monetize this name (selling)? What are the best options or are there no options at all?

Again, the company is a billion dollar company. I want to help them because it is really disturbing and I also want to get rid of it. And yes, in return I want them to pay me very well, it's worth it.

 

[RJ]

It sounds like you've got a valuable property. Ideally you just sit and wait for that billion dollar company to contact you with a big offer, but you're going on 15 years of doing that and you want some action.

You could reach out and contact someone yourself, but then you run the risk of drawing the ire of their legal department, and they might just decide to file a domain dispute and use the fact that you contacted them as demonstration of bad faith.

How secure are you in your rights to the name? Does your registration pre-date their use of the trademark? I would proceed very cautiously if there's any question about whether you have established legitimate rights to hold the name or if you'd be considered a squatter. If it's a generic term and other people would be interested as well, there's always the option of putting the domain up for auction with a reputable broker, who could notify the said company of it's availability.

 

[JamesCrew]

Does your registration pre-date their use of the trademark?.

If that's the case and your domain was registered prior to their trademark, then you may be safe.

Seeing that they have threatened you for trouble, it means they are still interested in the domain. So why not educate them about how they can "acquire" the domain from you; nicely and professionally, as a business...

I am sure if they are a billion dollar company, they will have few if not many professional executives on big seats who would listen to you.

Good luck,

 

[Iken]

It sounds like you've got a valuable property. Ideally you just sit and wait for that billion dollar company to contact you with a big offer, but you're going on 15 years of doing that and you want some action.

You could reach out and contact someone yourself, but then you run the risk of drawing the ire of their legal department, and they might just decide to file a domain dispute and use the fact that you contacted them as demonstration of bad faith.

How secure are you in your rights to the name? Does your registration pre-date their use of the trademark? I would proceed very cautiously if there's any question about whether you have established legitimate rights to hold the name or if you'd be considered a squatter. If it's a generic term and other people would be interested as well, there's always the option of putting the domain up for auction with a reputable broker, who could notify the said company of it's availability.

They have the trademark, way before the name was registered. like I said, this is a big world brand that exists for a long time already. At this moment, they have two out of three. They only need to proof I registered this domain in bad faith. Till now they can't but they can when like you said I contact them...

If that's the case and your domain was registered prior to their trademark, then you may be safe.

Seeing that they have threatened you for trouble, it means they are still interested in the domain. So why not educate them about how they can "acquire" the domain from you; nicely and professionally, as a business...

I am sure if they are a billion dollar company, they will have few if not many professional executives on big seats who would listen to you.

Good luck,

Well, my experience is that they will file a domain dispute immediately when I contact them because they then know they have three out of three and will get the domain for free for sure...

It's so stupid, they miss a lot of big orders (they email them but never get the orders) and employee mail never arrives. And so on...

 

[Domain Lead Finder]

They are fully aware of your registration of their brand name and they basically know you registered it in bad faith but can not prove it. The moment you send them an e-mail offering them their own brand name for sale, you lose the domain. The fact that they are a billion $ company means they have $$ for very very good lawyers, it is not a plus in any way that they are big. You basically wasted 15 years if reg fees on this one because nobody in their right mind would offer you anything worth considering for this.

Not trying to be negative, just pointing out the ugly truth about brand names and trade marks.

 

[Iken]

Thanks but of course I know this. The reg fee is nothing and for I care I will keep this domain till the end of domains or my life and beyond. For them to contact me would be a very sane thing to do, it's probably the only way to monetize it. They are very foolish with this considering all the information they loose weekly not forgetting all the internal memo's and financial info that is shared with the wrong persons (hooray for catch-all) and I just don't get it that they won't offer me money for the domain. They just don't know it is worth a lot for them.

So, I think everybody now knows how the situation is, now I just need a solution for this.

Or else the domain just stays as it is, being a nice site doing nothing.

 

[RJ]

At this moment, they have two out of three. They only need to proof I registered this domain in bad faith. Till now they can't but they can when like you said I contact them...

Well, my experience is that they will file a domain dispute immediately when I contact them because they then know they have three out of three and will get the domain for free for sure...

It's good that you're conscious of the three stage test of UDRP disputes, and are avoiding anything to give the appearance of bad faith. It's a tough spot, not being able to contact your ideal buyer.

I'm trying to think of ways to gain their attention where you're not trying to sell them anything. How about this? Start a new company under the name, in an unrelated field. Proceed to do business. Establish as much good faith as possible in your use of the name. At some point, have your domain-savvy lawyer contact their legal team for some reason (maybe try to buy one of their ccTLD's that match your new trademark.)

This hypothetical would work better with a domain/trademark that's ambiguous (like Apple, Amazon, Shell) rather than something like Microsoft (which may be harder to justify for a non-software company.) I am drawing inspiration from the Nissan Motor Corp and Nissan Computers legal battle which lasted for most of a decade over the domain Nissan.com, where the computer company ultimately won.

 

[Paul]

Do you have a website or anything on the domain currently?

 

[jamesau]

Interesting thread. I'm impressed you managed to wait 12 years for your first post! You've obviously been absorbing plenty of information about your predicament over the years.

The best answers are always going to come from a lawyer. Touch base with a handful via email and I'm sure one will be interested in helping you circumvent the system and get a sale. Always best to avoid specifics until you have an agreement in place.

 

[DigitalUnleash]

Would a big company not just pay you what you want, to avoid a pissed off dude telling the internet about what they did to his 12 year old nest egg?

Maybe contact them via phone, and speak hypothetically - "How much would yourname.com be worth to you, if somebody was to have access to somebody that had a friend, that owned it?"

T.

 

[Yusuf Musa]

Would a big company not just pay you what you want, to avoid a pissed off dude telling the internet about what they did to his 12 year old nest egg?

Maybe contact them via phone, and speak hypothetically - "How much would yourname.com be worth to you, if somebody was to have access to somebody that had a friend, that owned it?"

T.

That sounds too risky to me.

 

[NameVerve]

I can't understand why they wouldn't just make an "unofficial" offer from a third party, maybe even in person?
Just a case of "We understand that you own xxxxx.com, hypothetically if you were wishing to sell it what would the price range be?"

Just seems like it's one of these situations that companies often get into which is to look at the law in black and white and decide it should legally belong to them and wont back down instead of just taking a step back and thinking "If we had just given this sod £100,000 12 years ago whether it was the right thing to do or not, look how much more money and exposure we would have got!" ....many millions I presume.

If I was the OP, I'd be just happy to lease it to them through third parties and Escrow for like 30 years, $5,000 a month with an option to buyout at any time full non disclosures in place from both parties...that way for little money upfront they will be able to see the huge impact owning xxxxx.com has on their business and my guess is that it wouldn't take them 30 years to initiate the buy out!

Ok you won't become a millionaire but that would be enough for me never to work again....in the mean time I'd be sitting on my little 32 foot Contessa Yacht in the Caribbean enjoying a modest life fishing with my monthly income.

Win. Win. ?

 

[distlej]

This is a no win situation...
They own the Trademark.
The domain was registered after the Trademark.
You have not built a site or business on the domain that shows a legit interest in the domain.
You are profiting off their trademark.
Any UDRP panel in the world would give them the domain based on a finding of cyber squatting.
You would need to legally defend and win the UDRP to keep the domain (cost about $5-$10K)
A UDRP is trivial to file by any lawyer in the business for about $2k.
Once they win the UDRP, they could file a trademark infringement suit and claim damages to take every penny you have.

The only reason they haven't done it already is because their marketing department hasn't had good legal advice.

My recommendation: You're playing with fire. Unload it to some other fool before they just take it from you.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I have worked with some of the best in the business...
http://blog.dnattorney.com/2015/02/udrp-logic-trademark-must-come-before.html

 

[Internetexplorer]

Dear all, I am no lawyer as well, but perhaps an idea how I would handle.

First of all I agree there should be some none TM-holder related business on the site.

Then I would contact them and tell them (in a letter) that you are very annoyed since there are continues mails, orders and things for them interrupting your business.

Then kindly ask them (in the same letter) to stop using your account for their crap and ask them what to do with their mail and if they are willing to pay you for handling of each wrongly sent message.

Perhaps than someone wakes up and, who can throw "bad intention" to you when you have your own legitimate business?

It's just a thought (for which I will not be liable if you decide to use it and it ends up to go wrong )

Good Luck

Internet Explorer

 

[Iken]

I'm still here. And still I get hundreds of daily visitors on the domain just like the past xx years. Not mentioning the many internal email and other companies asking information and quotes or sending invoices.I even get personal email from employees on employeeX@ domainname . com. It's so frustrating I can't do anything and they just don't see how valuable this domain is for them.


Ok let me reply to some posts now.

It's good that you're conscious of the three stage test of UDRP disputes, and are avoiding anything to give the appearance of bad faith. It's a tough spot, not being able to contact your ideal buyer.

I'm trying to think of ways to gain their attention where you're not trying to sell them anything. How about this? Start a new company under the name, in an unrelated field. Proceed to do business. Establish as much good faith as possible in your use of the name. At some point, have your domain-savvy lawyer contact their legal team for some reason (maybe try to buy one of their ccTLD's that match your new trademark.)

This hypothetical would work better with a domain/trademark that's ambiguous (like Apple, Amazon, Shell) rather than something like Microsoft (which may be harder to justify for a non-software company.) I am drawing inspiration from the Nissan Motor Corp and Nissan Computers legal battle which lasted for most of a decade over the domain Nissan.com, where the computer company ultimately won.

The problem is, I don't have the long lasting financial power to fight a legal battle.

Do you have a website or anything on the domain currently?

Yes! The same one since the beginning.

Interesting thread. I'm impressed you managed to wait 12 years for your first post! You've obviously been absorbing plenty of information about your predicament over the years.

The best answers are always going to come from a lawyer. Touch base with a handful via email and I'm sure one will be interested in helping you circumvent the system and get a sale. Always best to avoid specifics until you have an agreement in place.

I guess that would be the best option. I always thought a domainbroker could help here...

Would a big company not just pay you what you want, to avoid a pissed off dude telling the internet about what they did to his 12 year old nest egg?

Maybe contact them via phone, and speak hypothetically - "How much would yourname.com be worth to you, if somebody was to have access to somebody that had a friend, that owned it?"

T.

Hmm, I think that would lead right back to me I'm afraid.

I can't understand why they wouldn't just make an "unofficial" offer from a third party, maybe even in person?
Just a case of "We understand that you own xxxxx . com, hypothetically if you were wishing to sell it what would the price range be?"

Just seems like it's one of these situations that companies often get into which is to look at the law in black and white and decide it should legally belong to them and wont back down instead of just taking a step back and thinking "If we had just given this sod £100,000 12 years ago whether it was the right thing to do or not, look how much more money and exposure we would have got!" ....many millions I presume.

If I was the OP, I'd be just happy to lease it to them through third parties and Escrow for like 30 years, $5,000 a month with an option to buyout at any time full non disclosures in place from both parties...that way for little money upfront they will be able to see the huge impact owning xxxxx . com has on their business and my guess is that it wouldn't take them 30 years to initiate the buy out!

Ok you won't become a millionaire but that would be enough for me never to work again....in the mean time I'd be sitting on my little 32 foot Contessa Yacht in the Caribbean enjoying a modest life fishing with my monthly income.

Win. Win. ?

If only.

This is a no win situation...
They own the Trademark.
The domain was registered after the Trademark.
You have not built a site or business on the domain that shows a legit interest in the domain.
You are profiting off their trademark.
Any UDRP panel in the world would give them the domain based on a finding of cyber squatting.
You would need to legally defend and win the UDRP to keep the domain (cost about $5-$10K)
A UDRP is trivial to file by any lawyer in the business for about $2k.
Once they win the UDRP, they could file a trademark infringement suit and claim damages to take every penny you have.

The only reason they haven't done it already is because their marketing department hasn't had good legal advice.

My recommendation: You're playing with fire. Unload it to some other fool before they just take it from you.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I have worked with some of the best in the business...

Hmm interessting but I don't think it is this easy. There is a site on it since the beginning. Interestingly the name is made out of normal English words. This makes it fat more difficult for them. It is not a made up name but just a combination of existing words.

Dear all, I am no lawyer as well, but perhaps an idea how I would handle.

First of all I agree there should be some none TM-holder related business on the site.

Then I would contact them and tell them (in a letter) that you are very annoyed since there are continues mails, orders and things for them interrupting your business.

Then kindly ask them (in the same letter) to stop using your account for their crap and ask them what to do with their mail and if they are willing to pay you for handling of each wrongly sent message.

Perhaps than someone wakes up and, who can throw "bad intention" to you when you have your own legitimate business?

It's just a thought (for which I will not be liable if you decide to use it and it ends up to go wrong )

Good Luck

Internet Explorer

Very interesting solution indeed. This could work, or at least get their attention.



And for the record. In the beginning I did get a paper (50 pages +) from a big lawyer company saying I had to give up the domain name or else bla bla American style. I never replied and nothing happened since. I'm not in the same country of this company btw.

 

[distlej]

Most large companies hire IP (intellectual property) protection services to search the Internet for websites that contain their trademark. That way, the company's legal department doesn't need to be involved for the majority of issues. That's probably who sent you the letter.

Maybe you'll listen to a lawyer:
http://www.domainsherpa.com/do-not-register-trademark-domains/

There is another article out there that was written by someone who was sued by a company for this sort of thing. I'll try to find it and post.

Those saying that you can't be sued blah blah blah. Any company can sue anyone for any reason at any time. It doesn't matter if the suit has merit. You'll still have to defend yourself at your own expense. This is especially onerous if your domain business is being run as a Sole Proprietor instead of an LLC or S corp that limits your liability. In that case your PERSONAL assets can be targeted in such a lawsuit.

Because of this, EVERY experienced domainer knows to avoid trademark domains like the plague.
Good Luck.

 

[hookbox]

You have owned the domain for 12 years and nobody has made you an offer on it. They obviously could care less about the name. Yes, maybe they would like to have it but it's pretty obvious that they really don't care that much about it. You may end up sitting on it for another 12 years unless you be a bit proactive and see what happens. Maybe you should contact them and roll the dice but be smart about it. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Not saying you should do this but food for thought.

 

[Iken]

Most large companies hire IP (intellectual property) protection services to search the Internet for websites that contain their trademark. That way, the company's legal department doesn't need to be involved for the majority of issues. That's probably who sent you the letter.

Maybe you'll listen to a lawyer:

There is another article out there that was written by someone who was sued by a company for this sort of thing. I'll try to find it and post.

Those saying that you can't be sued blah blah blah. Any company can sue anyone for any reason at any time. It doesn't matter if the suit has merit. You'll still have to defend yourself at your own expense. This is especially onerous if your domain business is being run as a Sole Proprietor instead of an LLC or S corp that limits your liability. In that case your PERSONAL assets can be targeted in such a lawsuit.

Because of this, EVERY experienced domainer knows to avoid trademark domains like the plague.
Good Luck.

Yes I saw this but my case is totally different. For example, I have BRAND.com but they ave BRANDsite.com and then there are others that have BRANDcafe.com BRANDrestaurant.com BRANDshop.com BRANDtables.com and so on. They have it registered but since the brand name consists of multiple English words combined it changes a few things don't you think?

 

[distlej]

No
If they have a trademark called BRAND and you own the domain BRAND.com that you registered after the trademark was registered, then it's pretty clear.
I'm not saying that I agree with large corporations bullying little guys, it's just the way it is.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[Iken]

Hmm ok we'll see. In the meantime life goes on as usual.

 

[Iken]

And too bad I can't drop the name here. It would make things more clearer I think.

 

[Haris]

Is the domain parked? How much do you earn from parking? :D

 

[BrandClub.com]

Hi all,

Since 1998 I registered a [BRANDNAME].com that is a big brand that many people in the world know.

Early 2000 there were two attempts to scare me with big treats of lawsuits and stuff like that but I never was really scared and they just stopped at one point and registered a .com (brand name and added word) and some ctld's worldwide. But still, I own the .com they really want or better should want. Why? Because all those years I get daily email (big orders, figures, internal reports, complaints, employee email, internal email, and so on...). Really, the list is endless. What strikes me is how clueless they all are and never ever tried to contact me (whois protect email).

I don't have to explain you all that I can't approach them directly so my question to all of you, what can I do to monetize this name (selling)? What are the best options or are there no options at all?

Again, the company is a billion dollar company. I want to help them because it is really disturbing and I also want to get rid of it. And yes, in return I want them to pay me very well, it's worth it.

We can help you sell it. Contact us ...

 

[Iken]

Is the domain parked? How much do you earn from parking? :D

Parked? No, there is a website on it. I don't think parking would be a good idea.

 

[Iken]

Then I would contact them and tell them (in a letter) that you are very annoyed since there are continues mails, orders and things for them interrupting your business.

Then kindly ask them (in the same letter) to stop using your account for their crap and ask them what to do with their mail and if they are willing to pay you for handling of each wrongly sent message.

Still thinking about this one...

I let it go and thought about it again today. I guess it's time for a lawyer now.

Anyone here interested in taking this case please send me a message.