How do services like Pool and Dynadot gather dropping domains?

[tommedema]

My question is simple so it doesn't require much elaboration: how do services like pool and dynadot gather dropping domains?

I'm a developer and like to work with big data. Having googled for "how to find dropping domain names" I only see countless of websites saying how to use services like Pool and Dynadot.

However, how do these services find the dropping domains? I'd like to replicate the infrastructure necessary to do so, but face a number of issues. For example, when quering whois servers like those of internic, the returned "expiration date" is not the actual date at which the domain is expired by the intermediary registrar, and therefore this date is not reliable. Yet services like Pool.com manage to do it.

Also, are their lists complete / comprehensive or do they only represent a small portion of actually dropping (.com) domains?

 

[Kate]

For the generic extensions like .com, the registrars get lists from the registries. But you could compile your own from the zone files, they would be 99.5% accurate. Catching the domains as soon as they are deleted is the difficult part, and there is heavy competition.

If you want to do serious dropcatching you need to control or have deals with a lot of registrars, that have direct connections to the registry. Reaction time is measured in milliseconds.

The whois output from Internet is always delayed by 5 minutes or something, it's not a real-time source. The registrar have direct access to the registry DB, they don't use whois to determine availability.

 

[AEProgram]

For the generic extensions like .com, the registrars get lists from the registries. But you could compile your own from the zone files, they would be 99.5% accurate. Catching the domains as soon as they are deleted is the difficult part, and there is heavy competition.

If you want to do serious dropcatching you need to control or have deals with a lot of registrars, that have direct connections to the registry. Reaction time is measured in milliseconds.

The whois output from Internet is always delayed by 5 minutes or something, it's not a real-time source. The registrar have direct access to the registry DB, they don't use whois to determine availability.

In addition why spend time building a program to gather data when there is a ton of sites many for free that provide this data in an organized searchable fashion.

As far as catching a drop, if you are not a registrar there is no way you are catching a drop using software (api etc.) if there is a registrar also trying to grab the name.

 

[tommedema]

For the generic extensions like .com, the registrars get lists from the registries. But you could compile your own from the zone files, they would be 99.5% accurate. Catching the domains as soon as they are deleted is the difficult part, and there is heavy competition.

If you want to do serious dropcatching you need to control or have deals with a lot of registrars, that have direct connections to the registry. Reaction time is measured in milliseconds.

The whois output from Internet is always delayed by 5 minutes or something, it's not a real-time source. The registrar have direct access to the registry DB, they don't use whois to determine availability.

Thanks. This provides for an interesting start. Where can I retrieve zone files for the .com TLD?

In other words, if I become ICANN accredited and signup as a registrar at Verisign, I could compete directly with intermediary registrars like Pool.com?

In addition why spend time building a program to gather data when there is a ton of sites many for free that provide this data in an organized searchable fashion.

As far as catching a drop, if you are not a registrar there is no way you are catching a drop using software (api etc.) if there is a registrar also trying to grab the name.

Well, the most obvious reason is that I am not sure whether these lists of Pool.com etc. are comprehensive and complete. If they are not I may be able to find domains that they haven't listed.

 

[RazorNF]

In other words, if I become ICANN accredited and signup as a registrar at Verisign, I could compete directly with intermediary registrars like Pool.com?

The two big players in the drop game right now are Namejet and Snapnames. You can't realistically try for a popular dropping domain without at least backordering at these two sites.

I haven't personally acquired anything from Pool in ages, I don't know if they are still a serious contender for .com.

If you become ICAAN accredited, you would only have 1 connection, and have no realistic chance at names that already have backorders at the above two places - as they have alot, maybe hundreds of registrars at their disposal.

 

[tommedema]

The two big players in the drop game right now are Namejet and Snapnames. You can't realistically try for a popular dropping domain without at least backordering at these two sites.

I haven't personally acquired anything from Pool in ages, I don't know if they are still a serious contender for .com.

If you become ICAAN accredited, you would only have 1 connection, and have no realistic chance at names that already have backorders at the above two places - as they have alot, maybe hundreds of registrars at their disposal.

Alright, and regarding the comprehensiveness of these lists, what do you think?

E.g. can I find every dropping .com listed by Snapnames also at Namejet?

 

[Cyphix]

How can he get that info from the Zone files? From what I understand the zone files only contain the domain name plus it's nameservers, nothing else.

 

[Kate]

How can he get that info from the Zone files? From what I understand the zone files only contain the domain name plus it's nameservers, nothing else.

If you download the zone file every day and compare it against yesterday's copy, you can see which domains were added, and which ones were removed.

Added domains: new domains, or existing domains that didn't have any associated name servers.
Removed domains: domains that have entered redemption status, suspended (on-hold) domains, or non-expired domains for which all associated name servers have been removed (for example if you want a domain to no longer resolve for some reason).

Domains with no name servers are not in the zone file, so if they expire you won't notice just by looking at the zone file. But these domains account for less than 0.5% of total registrations I believe.

 

[SamuelLDotson]

If you can't become a Registrar, I know there are websites that have lists with domains dropping and their expected drop date and time. That said, if they are on the internet, everyone else has them too.

I don't know how those lists compare to lists we may get, but it's a good place to start. Though I'd say it's pretty accurate to say it will be very hard to compete for premium domains.