HostUltra Warning/Question

[Harlquinth]

Hi,

This post is partly a warning to try and prevent other people ending up in the same situation, and partly a question/looking for advice on what we can do next.

We have/had the website (including the domain name) for our organisation, East Surrey Museum, hosted with hostultra since the website was set up in 2006.

We are a charity, and as we are currently short on funding we have moved our web hosting elsewhere (someone offered us free hosting), to save having to pay the $50 in hosting we were previously paying with hostultra.

However, we did not realise that it would be such a hassle moving the domain name, eastsurreymuseum.org. The domain name had already auto-renewed itself for another year by the time we decided to move the webhosting, so we have paid for it until mid-march 2013, however hostultra refuse to change the details to let us transfer it, or let us continue to use the domain name now we have moved our hosting.

I've been reading a few other threads about hostultra on this forum, and other forums, where people have had similar issues. After reading this thread, http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/211032-warning-do-not-register-names-hostultra.html, where the person did manage to get back the domain name, I tried contacting enom (hostultra's registrar) to ask if they could help, however as hostultra have registered the domain name in their name, enom say they are unable to help us.

We have already registered another domain name, eastsurreymuseum.org.uk, which we are using, however it would still be nice to have access to our old domain name, if nothing else so that we can redirect it to our new one in case anyone hasn't updated their links and so that search engines can properly reindex us (especially since we have paid for the domain name for another year anyway!).

I tried submitting requests using the hostultra's support ticket system asking if they could change the details to allow us to transfer the domain, however I didn't get much of a response. They do say in one of the threads on their forums (forum.hostultra.com/showthread.php?t=11815) that they transfer domain names, however the posts I made when I replying to that thread were deleted, and when I try going to the forum, I now get the message:
"You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never"
Which isn't a very helpful reason, especially as there wasn't even any warning! (I did save a copy of my posts which are here, eastsurreymuseum.org.uk/misc/hu_thread.htm, if anyone wants a look - I thought I was quite reasonable in my posts, so I don't see any reason for deleting/banning me, except perhaps they're trying to cover up their incompetant/fraudalent ways!)

I don't have access to the hostultra ticket system anymore as we had to cancel our hosting before it was due for renewal, however I did keep a copy of the main ticket that I had open with them - I've put it at eastsurreymuseum.org.uk/misc/ticket_APK-159152.pdf if anyone wants a look. I sent an email to hostultra using the email address that enom told me to use (which is the whois email) asking about transferring the domain and the status of my ticket, so I'm currently waitng for a reply to that, and if there isn't any response to that then I may try contacting enom again to see if they have any other advice.

Apart from trying to spread the word about hostultra using reviews/forums I'm not quite sure what else I can do unless there's anyone out there who can help, does anyone else have any ideas/advice?

Thanks, Peter.

 

[rycharn]

I was likewise impressed when I tried SiteGround's live chat last night. It was almost as quick for me, and the chap on the other end seemed personable and competent.

In searching a few forums, it seems SiteGround's tech support might be a little lacking. They're quick to respond, but not necessarily with people who really know how to fix stuff. I think if you can solve most of your own problems yourself, SiteGround is probably fine.

For my purposes (email and more email) I think SiteGround looks more than adequate, and (at least initially) it is at a price that far bests what I was paying Host Ultra! I can afford $10 for a one-year trial, even without a "free" domain name. (Although I'm now eyeing the .us version of the domain Host Ultra scammed from me. I might just pick that up for good measure.)

I just left a chat with "Kristina." I was "on hold" (with six chats ahead of me) for about twenty seconds before the chat window opened. I was greeted promptly, but actually answering my question took over another minute. They obviously open the chat window artificially prematurely in order to give customers an enhanced sense of immediacy. (I don't have a problem with that. It's effective, and they're still pretty quick.) In slightly broken English she confirmed for me that the special $9.95 price does not include a "free" domain name, but one can be added on for $14.95. Including a .us domain. Maybe not the cheapest price out there, but good enough for me.

I'm sold. Ordering later tonight. Thanks, Jlebeuf!

 

[Pixikel]

The only thing I've noticed about email that may affect you, rycharn, is that (unlike Host Ultra) the mailbox quota has a cap of 500MB. By the time I imported most of my mail at one of my addresses I was already at 50% capacity.

Maybe I'm just a mail packrat (I do a lot of photo editing and emailing), but I'm disappointed that the email accounts are capped.

 

[rycharn]

Good point, Pixikel. Fortunately, my emails are rarely size intensive. When I do hoard (and I do hoard) I store it on my laptop, not so much the server. I think I lucked out there, because I could have lost about four years of emails. :/

 

[Jlebeuf]

I appreciate the referrals, guys. A couple notes though, mark your calendars when the renewals are. SiteGround's TOS is to auto charge the renewal fee 15 days before the plan expires unless you cancel. Also, just like Host Ultra could have, anyone in or through the hosting provider with access to the physical storage can go through your emails if left there. One of the perks of private email is it being more difficult for a company or government to rummage through it. And I do have hoarded emails from my entire Host Ultra service on my laptop. Maybe I am an email hoarder but storage space isn't too expensive these days and having them on hand can be helpful at times... especially when they contain receipts.

EDIT- Also, you guys might post your referral links as well. No reason you can't pick up a few months from Googling passersby.

 

[kathyb]

host ultra

Well it looks like we're joining the ranks of Host Ultra SOLs. We registered with them in 2005 and starting this year have had all sorts of issues, including not being able to update our website since the cpanel link went belly up. Our domain name renews in November so I assume we have to wait until a month after that before we can purchase it back? Once we do can we access cpanel through another host to get back to updating our website? We also are a charity and not computer pros, so it's been a real learning curve - did the BBB complaint, contacted ICANN and enom, none of which were any help at all. We're in Canada and Host Ultra is registered in the US so legal help would probably end up being way more expensive than reasonable.

 

[Jlebeuf]

Well it looks like we're joining the ranks of Host Ultra SOLs. We registered with them in 2005 and starting this year have had all sorts of issues, including not being able to update our website since the cpanel link went belly up. Our domain name renews in November so (1) I assume we have to wait until a month after that before we can purchase it back? Once we do (2) can we access cpanel through another host to get back to updating our website? We also are a charity and not computer pros, so it's been a real learning curve - did the BBB complaint, contacted ICANN and enom, none of which were any help at all. We're in Canada and Host Ultra is registered in the US so legal help would probably end up being way more expensive than reasonable.

1) It depends. I believe the standard process is that there is a grace period of a couple days to renew the domain, then it goes into a period where the registrar gets to sell or do whatever with it, then at 30 days anyone can buy it.... I think.

2) The domain name and host are separate. Think of the domain name as just a human readable pointer to an address (which it is). When you bought the domain through Host Ultra it was pointed to their nameservers, I.E. yourdomain.tld -> ns1.hostultra.com, ns2.hostultra.com, etc. Your website was hosted on Host Ultra's web servers independent of your domain name. In fact, you could have accessed your website through YourUserName.hostultra.com (if I remember correctly). cPanel is a tool that is part of the hosting server and provides a user friendly interface to adjusting the server settings. If/when you move to another web host and they have cPanel, it won't be connected in any way to what you had at Host Ultra because it will be on the new host's servers. Unfortunately, unless you backed up your site or it was static and Google cached it, you won't be getting back into your site. But if it was static (such as all .html pages) I would suggest you search Google for "site:yourdomain.tld" (without quotes and tld = .com, .net, etc.) and start copying your content. You won't have images but at least you'll get text and layout.

 

[rycharn]

Hi, kathyb. Pleased to make your acquaintance, but at the same time I'm sad to see someone else join the group.

As you may have gathered from other posts, Host Ultra seems fond of using a registrar called eNom. Your domain was probably registered to Host Ultra through eNom. (Check your domain's whois details to verify.)

I'm still inside of my first 10 days here so I can't post functional links, so you'll have to decrypt this some.... You can find eNom's Terms of Service at eNom-dot-com/terms/agreement.aspx. Item #10 details how eNom handles domain expiration.

I'm no lawyer but the way I read eNom's TOS, when a domain expires, eNom gets to do whatever it wants with it. It may choose to simply release the domain to the public, but it is under no obligation to do so. If eNom thinks there is any value in the name, it will more than likely try to profit from it. It may pay the registration fee itself and then try to resell the name, either for a flat rate or by auction to the highest bidder. eNom could even legally register the name and simply sit on it, hoping for future value.

I'm distressed over what I found at this thread: webhostingtalk-dot-com/showthread.php?t=863015.

It looks as if eNom, either by itself or with the help of another party, has made a practice of turning expired domains into sites which link to porn sites. This practice would make you more likely to want to get your domain name back, and once they've created that greater demand for it, they can get away with charging you more for it.

Here's another tidbit I found: namejet-dot-com/Pages/FAQ.aspx

NameJet is one of several companies which are known as 'dropcatchers.' These companies buy up expiring domains for the specific purpose of reselling them for profit. The link indicates that "NameJet has the exclusive rights to auction expired domains from ... eNom." So if eNom doesn't pick up your domain, NameJet still might, and you might then be able to buy the domain back from NameJet. But be assured, NameJet will try to squeeze as much from you as it can.

In my case, I only used my domain for email. I had no web site, therefore no traffic. It isn't likely that my domain name is even Googled much. Checking a free domain appraisal site, my lost domain is worth exactly $0. My best bet might be to hope neither eNom nor NameJet wants it, and just wait for it to be released to the public. In your case, you are likely to have had some search traffic in addition to your actual site visitors. This gives your domain name some value. You might want a different strategy than I might.

I passed my situation through an "ask a lawyer" site, and I got back one reply that suggested I create an account through NameJet and ask that company to pick up my domain for me after it expires. In theory that might work, but as shady as dropcatching is by its nature, I'm concerned that telling NameJet to put the domain on a watchlist is just another way of saying 'hey, look

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

Previous post was cut off. Continuing.....

In theory that might work, but as shady as dropcatching is by its nature, I'm concerned that telling NameJet to put the domain on a watchlist is just another way of saying 'hey, look — here comes a valuable domain,' signaling to NameJet that it can hike up the price and I'll still be likely to pay it.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a company like that would "invent" another party which just happens to be interested in outbidding me for my domain, just to get the price even higher.

But I don't know. Maybe NameJet is completely legit, and this whole Host Ultra thing has made me extra skeptical. I haven't looked enough into that company or the whole dropcatching industry as a whole.

Lots of research still to do....

 

[Pixikel]

I appreciate the referrals, guys. A couple notes though, mark your calendars when the renewals are. SiteGround's TOS is to auto charge the renewal fee 15 days before the plan expires unless you cancel. Also, just like Host Ultra could have, anyone in or through the hosting provider with access to the physical storage can go through your emails if left there. One of the perks of private email is it being more difficult for a company or government to rummage through it. And I do have hoarded emails from my entire Host Ultra service on my laptop. Maybe I am an email hoarder but storage space isn't too expensive these days and having them on hand can be helpful at times... especially when they contain receipts.

I used to keep all email on my own computer but then my hard drive crashed and I lost it all. When I got a new hard drive I just did an Imap account instead of POP so that I didn't have to worry about that. Maybe I'll just swap back to POP and make a backup to upload more frequently.

EDIT- Also, you guys might post your referral links as well. No reason you can't pick up a few months from Googling passersby.

Sure! Here's mine: http://www.siteground.com/friends.htm?referrer_id=6950128

 

[kathyb]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I was able to save our entire website just by right clicking and saving the pages to my desktop. Not sure if that's normal but thank goodness in any case. So I've got all my website data saved and we didn't use host ultra for email so we're okay on that front. But I'm still confused as to how we go about buying back our domain name when the current registration expires. Who are we buying it from?? I'm also confused as to how the whole name registration works. If host ultra owns our domain name, who says so? Since ICANN and eNom both say they have nothing to do with it there must be someone else that we can complain to? Who actually is in charge of who owns what name and has it registered and where is this registry? Sorry for sounding so stupid and naive, but I really don't know.

 

[Jlebeuf]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I was able to save our entire website just by right clicking and saving the pages to my desktop. Not sure if that's normal but thank goodness in any case. So I've got all my website data saved and we didn't use host ultra for email so we're okay on that front. But I'm still confused as to how we go about buying back our domain name when the current registration expires. Who are we buying it from?? I'm also confused as to how the whole name registration works. If host ultra owns our domain name, who says so? Since ICANN and eNom both say they have nothing to do with it there must be someone else that we can complain to? Who actually is in charge of who owns what name and has it registered and where is this registry? Sorry for sounding so stupid and naive, but I really don't know.

Not stupid, maybe naive, but that's where everyone starts. The way I understand the whole domain name system is basically the top level registrars keeping track of who has what name(s) with ICANN policing them. Those top level registrars then let smaller registrars resell names from the top level to actual customers (though people can buy from the top level registrars directly for an obscene amount of money. Then associated with each name is a Whois record with an administrative contact, billing contact, technical, etc. When Host Ultra bought a name, they put their information in all sections of the Whois. Because of that, the registrar Host Ultra sold from (eNom for many) won't do anything for you because you aren't associated with the domain in any way (on paper). Now that Host Ultra is defunct, they won't be renewing domains anymore and those name will expire. When that happens, eNom (or whoever is the main registrar) takes ownership of the name for 30 days to auction it (themselves or through another party) or do what they see fit. After 30 days and if not sold to someone else the domain is released to the public and any registrar can claim it (sell it to a customer).

Unless you can get someone associated with the Whois contact for your name to work with you and contact the registrar themselves on your behalf you pretty much just have to let the name expire and try to reclaim it at auction or after it goes public. If your name is a nothing name, such as a very uncommon full name, I would just let it go public and buy it elsewhere through a reputable registrar with a good public relations record, instead of eNom for instance. In the mean time, I would suggest finding a new name and possibly rebuild your site/brand on that name maybe picking up your old name as just a legacy domain to redirect to your new one.

I would say the biggest thing to learn from this situation is this: a domain name is just a pointer to where your site is hosted. You can change hosts but whoever holds the metaphorical keys to your domain controls where it points so you need to make sure you are holding those keys. If a host screws you then you can just get another one, upload your site there, and point your domain to the new host. If a registrar screws you then they control your domain and your identity.

 

[rycharn]

kathyb,

Who you buy the name from will depend at least partly on where your domain ends up after it expires. If the best case scenario happens, and eNom releases the name completely, then it's up for grabs, and you can pick it up inexpensively through pretty much any hosting company, or even directly through a registrar like eNom (although I would not recommend eNom specifically).

What I'd be concerned about, though, is that a company like NameJet will pick up the name before you get a chance to, and then try to sell it to you at a jacked-up price, or worse, sell it to someone else.

Quick side story. A few years ago, I came up with what I thought would be a clever domain name for a site that I could build into a forum for visitors to discuss current events. I made the mistake of going to GoDaddy.com, where I checked to see if my clever domain name was available. It was. I opted not to buy it right then and there; I knew little of GoDaddy aside from the slick advertising campaign, and I wasn't sure I wanted to use GoDaddy as my host. A couple of days later, when I was ready to purchase the name through a different host, the name was gone. I don't think it was a coincidence that someone else happened to take the name just after I searched it with GoDaddy. I think someone had access to GoDaddy's search terms or results and snagged the name I had created, hoping that I'll want to pay premium bucks for it later on. I didn't fall for that, but I know the frustration of having someone else take your domain name and not use it for any real purpose. The name now points to a generic GoDaddy page suggesting that the domain name you are visiting just might be for sale.

This was a different situation than yours is, but the point is that if someone else thinks your domain name is of value, they'll try to claim it before you can. That's exactly what NameJet does. It buys expiring domain names and makes a profit by reselling them.

I used the website valuate.com to get a free appraisal of my domain name. It came back at $0, so I feel somewhat safe in my assumption that NameJet and the others will leave my domain name alone when it expires. If your name is unique and specific enough that nobody else would want it, you can go the same route. If it's a name that somebody else might want, though, you might find yourself in a battle or having to pay more than you'd like to.

Just for fun, I thought I'd invent a domain name for a charity and take you through my thought process. I'm fond of Make-a-Wish, so let's pretend I created a similar charity and called it Granted Wishes. I ran the name "grantedwishes.com" through Valuate.com and got back an appraisal of $350. Now let's suppose that grantedwishes.com is the domain name you want back. We're just assuming that Host Ultra won't be in a position to renew the name itself, and that the name will expire. By agreement with eNom, NameJet gets first crack at the domain name. If NameJet thinks it is worth $350, it will grab the name before the public gets a shot at it. NameJet gets the name for cheap, and then turns around and sells it to the highest bidder. You've not only lost the name once because Host Ultra mishandled the initial registration, but you lose it again post-expiration because NameJet has picked it up and resold it to another buyer. You could try to buy it from that buyer, but you're more than likely never going to see the name again.

Since your domain name linked to a web page, you probably had an audience of some significance. That's going to elevate your domain name's value. I'm concerned that when your name "expires," NameJet will pick it up, and you aren't going to get the chance to take it back, even at a higher price.

I'd suggest running your domain name through a site like Valuate in order to get a feel for what someone else would think the name is worth. The higher its value, the more you might want to consider a strategy that gets you the name before NameJet gives anybody else the opportunity to buy it. You can set up an account at NameJet and ask them to snag the name for you when it becomes available, but I don't know what that costs. In my opinion, doing that just draws more attention to the name, alerting NameJet that the a name it might have otherwise ignored is actually valuable to somebody.

That's the main reason I'm not pushing the ownership issue over my domain name with ICANN or eNom. Announcing that I want the name just makes it that much less likely that I will get it, and even that much more certain that I won't get it cheap.

 

[kathyb]

Has anyone been able to buy back their domain name after Host Ultra's claim expired? I'm just wondering how long it will take before it becomes available to me. I did do the valuation thing and it came back at $10. Not sure if that makes it worthwhile to anyone or not. My domain expires with Host Ultra on Nov 12, which is pretty soon, but if it goes into limbo for another 30 or 60 days I can't wait that much longer.

 

[brucewells]

It takes a while before you can buy the domain back again. Generally at least 90 days. See this for an explanation: http://www.pixelmade.com/blog/domain-names/domain-name-expiration-process.

I bought back a site. It just had to become available, and then I grabbed it back for the normal price. Don't go through an auction site, that will just increase your costs. This assumes you are not trying to grab a valuable name like flintstone.com or beer.com or something that someone else may want. Generally a domain will expire and not be grabbed, but short domain names and anything with an recognizable words may fetch something in an auction.

Good luck, but in the meantime, you may want to register a new domain. The problem I had was I could not update my page to redirect to a new URL. Never figured out why hostultra locked my account out. It really sucked. Using webhostingpad.com now, and they seem to be good. But as always, use a legit registrar and not your hosting company to buy domains from, or you could end up like the rest of us, SCREWED!

 

[Ms Domainer]

I guess the Eric Eoin Marques is in some trouble (google hostultra in news). Sucks for my 5+ year old website that is now down. I don't think I have any option other than a complete rebrand and rebuild. It's also unfortunate that the domain name is printed in magazines, stationary, and is linked to from hundreds of sites.

Lets figure out how to get our domains back from eNom. Any lawyers in this thread?

By the way - for all you regular forum members who hate on new posters, I now have more than a few posts, spanning months apart. I stand by every word that I've said and everyone else on here was just trying to warn others from service they experienced. It's kind of closed minded to discredit posts from new members. You used to be a new member once too.

peace

*

Not all us oldtimers diss new members. Most of us like to help whenever possible.

New blood is what will keep this forum alive.

I had the same issue with another hosting company. Service started out well, but then degenerated.

The domain name wasn't all that great, but still...

The held my domain hostage for two years; they finally gave up and deleted the domain, which I was able to reclaim as a new reg.

But this is an ongoing problem with "bundling" hosting with domain name. In the future, the best thing to do is to keep hosting (company A) and domain (company B) separate, even if it's a bit more expensive and takes a bit more techno knowledge.

*

 

[Jlebeuf]

By the way, my domain was released and a week or so ago I was able to register it through NameCheap. Anyone interested in getting their domain back who haven't yet might see if yours has been released.

 

[kathyb]

Our domain name expired Nov 12th and I was able to buy it back immediately through enom (they were listed on the original report, I think it was as the sponsoring registrar, but refused to accept responsibility when host ultra went under, as host ultra wasn't a 'registered' reseller of theirs). I was SO thankful that there was no further waiting period. I'd already bought the .ca domain name in case the .org one didn't become available right away. No way we could wait another 60 or 90 or even 120 days. It sure was a learning curve but thank goodness it's over!

 

[Jlebeuf]

I have heard bad things about eNom so I avoided them. My domain wasn't important enough to go into business with the company that allowed their reseller to do this abuse anyways. I did wonder if I could have got it sooner by going through them though, and now I know. It's unfortunate most just those that are already in the trap come across these kinds of threads but thankfully it seems Host Ultra is long defunct to the point of their own domain pointing to the registrar's park page.