question Hand-reg vs name drop - Is name drop necessarily better?

[Vivi]

I've read some threads here mentioning hand-regs vs name drop, and many of these suggest that expiring names are more valuable than hand reg. But on the other hand, wouldn't it be fair to say that all a name drop means is that at least one person liked the name? Which is not necessarily a big advantage over a hand-reg?

Whether you agree or disagree, I'd love to hear your point of view. I'm just here trying to learn from those who are more experienced.

I have an actual case study in mind here to back up my viewpoint: When I set up my first blog several years ago, I hand-regged a domain name for it - an 8-letter 2-word .com. It was something generic, not related to the topic of the blog. I don't want to say what the domain was because it's currently for sale in a domaining company's portfolio, and I don't want to muddy the waters. Anyhow, the domain name was something along the lines of 2 unrelated words (e.g. Purple Bananas .com - although that wasn't it). I blogged for nearly a year, but I got too busy to keep it up, and that particular blog wasn't really earning much, so I lost interest. So when it came time to renew the domain, I decided to let it expire. One of the things I'd eventually come to dislike about it was that it failed the radio test, due to alternative spellings/meanings of one of the words.

Anyhow, a few months after I let it expire, I did a whois on the domain and I noticed someone had bought it. I was eager to see if they had set up a blog or company with the name, but no. The domain was registered in the name of a domaining company, and had a $x,xxx price tag to it. This was a few years ago. It's still registered with them, still with a $x,xxx price tag. I think it's over-valued, but that's just my personal opinion - I wouldn't hand-reg it again for reg fee because of the radio test issue.

So, in that situation, wouldn't it be fair to say that name drops are not necessarily better than hand-regs? It might have been registered for a reason, sure, but (mine at least) also got dropped for a reason.

Any guidance or input on my reasoning please? I'm not necessarily looking to be agreed with - if there are holes in my reasoning I'd like them to be pointed out. I'm simply wanting to learn from those who are more experienced, and getting multiple points of view here helps me a lot.

 

[CrocodileDundee]

Your question is a little confusing to me because I feel you have your lines crossed a little. The overwhelming majority of valuable names were registered years ago, the chance today of hand registering a domain name that can compete with a name in the aftermarket is virtually zero. The average person had a much greater chance of registering a valuable name 10 years ago than today.

You somewhat confirm it in your example when you say you registered a generic 8 letter 2 word name and list "purple bananas" as the example. Today it is impossible to hand register a "Color+Fruit.com" unless you go for a really obscure color and fruit. Take a look at when red/blue/green/orange+bananas.com were registered. If you want to buy a Color+fruit.com you will have to buy it from the aftermarket.

Technically you are correct when you say a dropping name is not necessarily better than a name available for hand reg today (there are alot of crap names dropping everyday). But the likelyhood of coming across a valuable name is greatly increased by looking at names registered years ago than browsing available hand reg domains today.

My answer is a little convoluted and not fantastic, but i hope you understand a little better.

 

[Kate]

I should also mention that domain names drop for many possible reasons: going out of business, corporate mergers, failed partnerships, abandoned projects, loss of motivation, death etc and of course plain absent-mindedness.
I myself abandoned nice domains in my early days because I didn't realize the value back then. Most people who own domains have no idea that they hold potentially valuable assets that can even be traded. They drop them because they don't realize they could sell them. They see domains like disposable items.

In .com alone, there are 110 million domains registered. Saturation is such that anything remotely decent should have been registered in the past. If you find a domain name that has never been registered before, it's usually a sign that you are the only one who sees value. When you contemplate a drop, then there is at least two persons who saw value.

By the way, everything I drop is picked up by domainers usually. It's psychology, people are in a competitive game, they bid in auctions, catch domains with frenzy but that doesn't mean they will be more successful at selling than I have been.
You are right to be critical, and your thinking is consistent. I just want to add some perspective

 

[aramyus]

There's nothing wrong in hand-reg domains.

As a matter of fact, most invented names that are listed in BB were probably hand-regged recently .

The problem is more 'probability' of finding something valuable.

There are some fields where your chances to find a gem are close to zero: single words, keyword domains, LLLL and a few more

There are other fields where zillions of domains are still available. For example, many xxxx.com with mixtures of letter, numbers and dashes are still available. Geo domains are also broadly available. Common words with a prefix or a suffix are often available too.

This thread
namepros.com/blog/are-your-brandables-profitable.888152
suggests there are also plenty of domains composed of two somehow unrelated words that are still available.

For some odd reasons, buyers look for hot, highly popular domains, and they kind of disregard the zillions available other domains. They prefer to buy a 10k domain that follows the fashion rather than a brand new 100$ domain.

The domainers who concentrate on selling hand-reg domains have to face a low selling price (low xxx$) and it's not easy to build a business on this model.

 

[Vivi]

@CrocodileDundee - thanks, your comments were clear and helpful and yes you did manage to straighten out some things for me, thanks.

@Kate , I appreciated your perspective, especially in the light of the domain saturation of .com that you mentioned.

@aramyus , thank you for bringing up the point of the lower resale prices of handregs - I can see what you mean about that as it relates to building a business model.

Thank you to all of you for your responses. You have brought some refreshing and valuable perspectives to my question.

 

[serryjw]

I should also mention that domain names drop for many possible reasons: going out of business, corporate mergers, failed partnerships, abandoned projects, loss of motivation, death etc and of course plain absent-mindedness.
I myself abandoned nice domains in my early days because I didn't realize the value back then. Most people who own domains have no idea that they hold potentially valuable assets that can even be traded. They drop them because they don't realize they could sell them. They see domains like disposable items.

In .com alone, there are 110 million domains registered. Saturation is such that anything remotely decent should have been registered in the past. If you find a domain name that has never been registered before, it's usually a sign that you are the only one who sees value. When you contemplate a drop, then there is at least two persons who saw value.

By the way, everything I drop is picked up by domainers usually. It's psychology, people are in a competitive game, they bid in auctions, catch domains with frenzy but that doesn't mean they will be more successful at selling than I have been.
You are right to be critical, and your thinking is consistent. I just want to add some perspective

Kate, I understand all the logic of picking up good dropped domains from the past...BUT what about emerging technologies that didn't even exist 3 years ago.

Thanks, Serry

 

[Kate]

Which emerging technologies ?

 

[serryjw]

Which emerging technologies ?

Robotics and 3D

 

[Kate]

OK, basically you're talking about predictive domaining. There are always opportunities but it's hard to anticipate them with reasonable certainty. You will probably be wrong 99% of the time, but it can still pay to follow the news and the trends very carefully But again it's difficult. Look at the 3D threads for example, plenty of bad regs because people are trying to catch up when the ship has sailed long ago.
However, one thing you will want to do is analyze reported sales. Sometimes, there are trends shaping up, some keywords being more in demand than others.

 

[Aamsra]

I've read some threads here mentioning hand-regs vs name drop, and many of these suggest that expiring names are more valuable than hand reg. But on the other hand, wouldn't it be fair to say that all a name drop means is that at least one person liked the name? Which is not necessarily a big advantage over a hand-reg?

Whether you agree or disagree, I'd love to hear your point of view. I'm just here trying to learn from those who are more experienced.

I have an actual case study in mind here to back up my viewpoint: When I set up my first blog several years ago, I hand-regged a domain name for it - an 8-letter 2-word .com. It was something generic, not related to the topic of the blog. I don't want to say what the domain was because it's currently for sale in a domaining company's portfolio, and I don't want to muddy the waters. Anyhow, the domain name was something along the lines of 2 unrelated words (e.g. Purple Bananas .com - although that wasn't it). I blogged for nearly a year, but I got too busy to keep it up, and that particular blog wasn't really earning much, so I lost interest. So when it came time to renew the domain, I decided to let it expire. One of the things I'd eventually come to dislike about it was that it failed the radio test, due to alternative spellings/meanings of one of the words.

Anyhow, a few months after I let it expire, I did a whois on the domain and I noticed someone had bought it. I was eager to see if they had set up a blog or company with the name, but no. The domain was registered in the name of a domaining company, and had a $x,xxx price tag to it. This was a few years ago. It's still registered with them, still with a $x,xxx price tag. I think it's over-valued, but that's just my personal opinion - I wouldn't hand-reg it again for reg fee because of the radio test issue.

So, in that situation, wouldn't it be fair to say that name drops are not necessarily better than hand-regs? It might have been registered for a reason, sure, but (mine at least) also got dropped for a reason.

Any guidance or input on my reasoning please? I'm not necessarily looking to be agreed with - if there are holes in my reasoning I'd like them to be pointed out. I'm simply wanting to learn from those who are more experienced, and getting multiple points of view here helps me a lot.

Your topic can be really informative especially for newbies who are unaware of domaining yet. And other domainers have already shared useful thoughts to consider.

Though, I've entered the business a few months ago (my profession is software engineering/research actually), but according to my on hand knowledge and experience, both hand regged and dropped names are worth . It is a matter of research, understanding and LUCK that makes a common somewhat inexperienced green a successful domain trader over the passage of time. Obviously, different people have different way of thinking and ideas but, it is quite possible to pick from available names for hand reg as well as from dropped ones as soon as you do proper research and don't stop learning.. As IMO, when you think, you're master of all your field/profession/business, you actually put a full stop on your creative imagination/ideas that grow up till the last breath.

We can easily find many dropped names that have no sense at all while we think about regging them, but to end users they mean a lot. Similarly, based on knowledge and research, we can catch many hand regged names that can make beneficial trade over time just because they have the potential and if we got them regged, we actually know how precious they are or they can be in near future.

According to my point of view, none of the new/dropped names are bad until you pick the ones that can generate good sales but that totally depends on your particular KNOWLEDGE, RESEARCH, EXPERIENCE and most important the LUCK that actually matters always.

Still, many perspectives to add/discuss the basic topic for more exposure.
Thank you.

 

[serryjw]

OK, basically you're talking about predictive domaining. There are always opportunities but it's hard to anticipate them with reasonable certainty. You will probably be wrong 99% of the time, but it can still pay to follow the news and the trends very carefully But again it's difficult. Look at the 3D threads for example, plenty of bad regs because people are trying to catch up when the ship has sailed long ago.
However, one thing you will want to do is analyze reported sales. Sometimes, there are trends shaping up, some keywords being more in demand than others.

Kate, you could say the same for 95% of the domains that sell. They probably sold multiple times before. I don't consider a domain worth anything ( thou it sold for $XXX,XXX) until a company( end user) starts a business with that domain...the rest is a domainer speculating on the future.

 

[Kate]

Face it, the most desirable domains were registered long ago
However, there are still good names to be found, double keyword domains for example.
Also, there are opportunities in ccTLDs, not just in .com. I caught a major keyword.ccTLD recently.

I think handregs are OK if you will be developing them. For resale, it's probably going to be more difficult than a drop.

However, I don't agree that no domain is worth anything until developed.
Some domains have built-in value, for example .com generics. On the other hand, google.com would have been appraised at regfee in 1997. Because there was no brand yet. The name itself is just a brandable, what counts is the branding behind it.

Domain names cannot be worthless if end users are buying them for development. They must be seeing value in the name, it could for characteristics such as being short, brandable or memorable.

 

[Vivi]

Sorry it took so long for me to respond to these great replies.

I found the discussion between @serryjw and @Kate fascinating; so many ideas coming up that were incredibly helpful to me, thanks to both of you.

Thank you to @kmnsh for the helpful reminder pointing out that ultimately it comes down to the domain itself, and that many other factors (in addition to hand-reg or name-drop) will also play into whether the domain itself has potential.

It's very valuable to me to get a range of perspectives on my question, and I've enjoyed reading the answers and learning.

 

[serryjw]

Kate, you could say the same for 95% of the domains that sell. They probably sold multiple times before. I don't consider a domain worth anything ( thou it sold for $XXX,XXX) until a company( end user) starts a business with that domain...the rest is a domainer speculating on the future.

Buying land in Aspen is worth big money BUT it is worth multiple times that when a fabulous $5 Million house is on that land. Remember what Michael Douglas said in 'WallStreet'...perception creates reality. Is Porno REALLY worth almost $9 MILLION ? If you or I had that domain could we have gotten that kinda money OR is part of it that it was bought from Rick Schwartz?

 

[1NiteStand]

If all the good names have been reg'd then your chance is the drops or aftermarket. That's where new TLDs come in - giving a lot more chance to reg great names than settle for aftermarket or drops.


One's trash is another one's treasure, especially if the trash/domain has inbound links/traffic and PR, other domainers will see this and snap them up just to park them to make some PPC revenue and then attach a for sale sign with 4 figure price tag (in hopes the previous owner will want the name back)

 

[serryjw]

Sorry it took so long for me to respond to these great replies.

I found the discussion between @serryjw and @Kate fascinating; so many ideas coming up that were incredibly helpful to me, thanks to both of you.

Thank you to @kmnsh for the helpful reminder pointing out that ultimately it comes down to the domain itself, and that many other factors (in addition to hand-reg or name-drop) will also play into whether the domain itself has potential.

It's very valuable to me to get a range of perspectives on my question, and I've enjoyed reading the answers and learning.

Vivi---What it comes down to is what are you going to use it for. Is 'Google' worth $100 million...It is NOW!! Most of the made up names are worth it ONLY if a company has the money to brand it and make it a 'google'.

 

[Eckhart]

I believe hand registering will always be useful for:
1 - Registering new gTLD premium keywords.
2 - Registering new HOT keywords (that can be from new technologies like @serryjw said, new trends and new products)
3 - Registering brandables (a meaningless string of characters can have high value to the right person; there is no such thing as registering all brandables since the criteria is very subjective).

However, both expired domains and new registrations should be pursued otherwise you could miss some gems.

 

[Vivi]

That's where new TLDs come in - giving a lot more chance to reg great names than settle for aftermarket or drops.

One's trash is another one's treasure, especially if the trash/domain has inbound links/traffic and PR, other domainers will see this and snap them up just to park them to make some PPC revenue

Thanks to @1NiteStand for the pointer on new TLD's vs .com's in regards to hand-reg vs namedrops. Thanks also for the point on taking into consideration the level inbound traffic on a namedrop - the traffic is something I hadn't previously considered and it's a valuable point.

However, both expired domains and new registrations should be pursued otherwise you could miss some gems.

@eckhardt - thank you for pointing out some specific types of situations that might be suited to hand-reg - that helps distill my thinking a little more.

I see now from what everyone is saying that there's not really a one-size-fits-all answer, but instead that there are some situations where hand-regging might be advantageous and others where pursuing namedrops is advantageous, and that it's important to understand the factors behind these - which many of you have described. Wow, I love learning from everyone, and I really appreciate you all being willing to share your wisdom and your points of view.

 

[serryjw]

I believe hand registering will always be useful for:
1 - Registering new gTLD premium keywords.
2 - Registering new HOT keywords (that can be from new technologies like @serryjw said, new trends and new products)
3 - Registering brandables (a meaningless string of characters can have high value to the right person; there is no such thing as registering all brandables since the criteria is very subjective).

However, both expired domains and new registrations should be pursued otherwise you could miss some gems.

Eckhardt...You can't compare the two financially. A hand reg cost me under $15 at GD...DROPS could cost hundreds, thousands if it is a good one. Most do not have that kinda money AND newbies should not spend that kinda money until they really understand the business. Losing a few hundred dolars is one thing, thousands can cost a divorce!

 

[Eckhart]

You can't compare the two financially. A hand reg cost me under $15 at GD...DROPS could cost hundreds, thousands if it is a good one.

Yes indeed but what I meant is that you should go all routes to increase opportunities and I assumed it's done within each domainer's budget. On the other hand, I wasn't talking of drops that cost thousands. I was referring to creating both a strategy for hand regging and one for getting expired domains because on a couple of occasions I ended up getting dropped domains for reg fee since nobody backordered them. I agree that part of these domains will be junk but some of them turned out profitable and one of these cases was my first sold domain, so for a beginner this leads to more opportunities and successes which are quite important in the beginning. This should be helpful for most domainers who are on a low budget and starting out.

 

[Kate]

Eckhardt...You can't compare the two financially. A hand reg cost me under $15 at GD...DROPS could cost hundreds, thousands if it is a good one. Most do not have that kinda money AND newbies should not spend that kinda money until they really understand the business. Losing a few hundred dolars is one thing, thousands can cost a divorce!

It all makes a lot of sense.

However:
one favorite tagline of newbies is that they buy handregs because they don't have a big budget. I understand that perfectly. In fact, one should resist the urge to spend a lot of money without learning the basics first.
Unfortunately many newbies quickly accumulate hundreds of domains (that are low-quality). Of course, those names will be expensive to renew, and few (if any) will sell before they come up for renewal. For most domainers, the sales do not offset the renewal costs. This is the kiss of death.

Quality > quantity.
You should always strive to keep the portfolio as lean as possible.

Aftermarket purchases don't have to be always expensive. From time to time, I buy aged domains for the cost of a backorder, or minimal competition because the names were overlooked by others.
Master keyword here: research

 

[serryjw]

It all makes a lot of sense.

However:
one favorite tagline of newbies is that they buy handregs because they don't have a big budget. I understand that perfectly. In fact, one should resist the urge to spend a lot of money without learning the basics first.
Unfortunately many newbies quickly accumulate hundreds of domains (that are low-quality). Of course, those names will be expensive to renew, and few (if any) will sell before they come up for renewal. For most domainers, the sales do not offset the renewal costs. This is the kiss of death.

Quality > quantity.
You should always strive to keep the portfolio as lean as possible.

Aftermarket purchases don't have to be always expensive. From time to time, I buy aged domains for the cost of a backorder, or minimal competition because the names were overlooked by others.
Master keyword here: research

Kate, with MILLIONS up for sale at any given time, even good hand regs get lost. What most miss is BUYING right is more important than selling. You need to know at least 10 companies that might buy your hand reg for a reasonable price BEFORE you reg it. I have been selling ( cold calling) all my life, and that is where you'll have your greatest success. I'm still working on increasing the selling prices but my goal is to always sell (flip) for at least $500. Not bad to take a $15 investment and sell for about $500. I will do that all day long. One of the industry problems is hearing about Rick Schwartz;s sales. Newbies think this happens all the time...NOT!!

 

[cmdomains]

I didn't read all replies but I'll just share something I learned , that previously used and indexed domains are apparently useful for backlink juice for folks who know how to screen which ones 'look spammy' or not. Also with all the 'chips' - letters and numerics - radio test(ed) names seem irrelevant.

 

[frank-germany]

I am hand regging for 14 years now

today you may hand reg a 5l.com CHIP :
and sell 1 or 10 years later with profit

new technologies :
like drones
bring new words into the market

like
wheeldrones.com
( drones not flying but running on wheels )

the only disadvantage is: you need patience

 

[Vivi]

A huge thank you to @serryjw @Kate @eckhardt @cmdomains @frank-germany @1NiteStand for your input.

I found the range of points brought up to be very thought-provoking and intriguing. I especially liked what @Kate pointed out about quality of portfolio being of more relevance than quantity, and what @frank-germany said that hand-regging is certainly a viable strategy but that it needs a lot of patience. All of you pointed out or alluded to the need for research into any domain name, whether namedrop or hand-reg.

These are all things which I'm finding incredibly helpful in putting my thoughts in order. Thanks a lot!