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discuss Gun Laws

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Bernard Wright

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This is just a hodgepodge of thoughts. I won't distinguish between good and bad people. I'll focus on peoples' actions.

Bad actors shouldn't have guns for committing acts of violence against innocent people, nor for threatening innocent people with potential violence. It would be nice if society could prevent a bad actor from obtaining the gun used in a bad act.

Good actors should have the right to defend themselves and others against bad actors with necessary force. Such force includes the threat of lethal violence, and the use of lethal violence if necessary.

Bad actors don't have regard for the rule of law when acting in a criminal manner.

Society is comprised of individuals pursuing their own interests. Laws are instated to ensure that individuals' rights are not infringed upon by another person or entity. When an individual infringes upon another individual's rights, there are criminal and civil procedures to deal with such matters, overseen by our governing officials. In extreme cases, when the infringing party is a usurping government, it is up to the citizens to protect their natural freedoms from that government. This happens rarely, but it happens. It is wise for an individual to aspire to maintain his/her own personal sovereignty and ability to protect him/herself from unjust threats.

A good actor is responsible for protecting him/herself and, if desired, other people from threats and acts of violence. When police officers are capable of assisting, assistance is welcomed, but the police's main duty is to maintain law and order, not to protect another individual from immediate threat. The individual's primal concern is his/her own personal safety, and this is a responsibility that lies within every individual when faced with a threat of violence.

A gun is a tool. A gun can do a number of things. Here are three examples.

1. a gun can be used to engage in a violent act.
2. a gun can be used to deescalate/end a violent act.
3. a gun can be used to deescalate/end a threat of violence.

We are all players in society with an interest in pursuing our best interests and defending our well-being. Laws that would take guns away from some bad actors are sure to also result in fewer armed good actors who could deescalate violent and potentially violent situations. Violence is not good. Good actors with guns end violent situations more quickly and effectively than good actors without guns do. There are hundreds of millions of firearms on this planet. A bad actor with the desire to obtain a gun will always have the means to locate a gun. Black markets are real.

Good actors should have the legal right to possess guns in order to protect themselves, and others, from bad actors.
 
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Wow! Tremendous argument you've got there, NOT!

Actually, I'd say that laws help provide us with a baseline for judging who the more dangerous or problematic members of society are.


And yours as well?!?!?!
You called it. Laws establish a baseline. As of now, guns are just a second amendment right which is ridiculous. Sure, you needed guns back then when the amendment was established. In today’s time it’s a different ballgame.

So, why is it far fetched to make the baseline...no guns?! We’ve tried guns and scores of people can be killed in seconds. Why the fear to try no guns? I’ll tell you exactly why. The NRA buys politicians and people are afraid to be proven wrong when less guns yield less death.
 
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...With this argument we simply don’t need laws. After all, criminals and crazies won’t follow....
ANARCHY! ANARCHY! ANARCHY!
 
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On more than occasion in my life, a gun has saved my life. I've been self employed for 90% of my life and at times carried large amounts of cash...it doesn't take a criminal too long to figure out who the main man (or woman) is at a business and target them for robbery.

Had a crackhead once try to get into my house (thinking he was on the other side of town and out of his mind) carrying a machete and insisting he get free drugs...a gun saved me and my family that time as well.

Once I ran a bear out of my garage by firing a weapon in its general direction.

Once I am provided a 24 hour guard(s) to protect me and my family wherever and whenever I (they) live or travel, then you may ask for my weapon.

Where the heck are you living? Did the bear tried to rob you too?
 
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Where the heck are you living? Did the bear tried to rob you too?

East Coast US...although the bear had successfully entered the garage, he/she was unable to raid my secondary refrigerator before the security system alerted me.
 
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...guns are just a second amendment right which is ridiculous...
WTF dude?!?!?!

Whether I agree with them or not, I support all the rights provided to every American in our Constitution including the 1st amendment right that allows people to make stupid statements. I may choose not to avail myself of some of those rights, but I will not question or deny anyone the opportunity to exercise theirs.
...As of now, guns are just a second amendment right which is ridiculous. Sure, you needed guns back then when the amendment was established. In today’s time it’s a different ballgame...

And some people seem to think our first amendment is ridiculous and antiquated - like our current president. So we should go ahead and dump it because people get all butt hurt when someone says something bad - BUT THRUTHFUL - about them?!?!? Or hurt their feelings?!?!?

...So, why is it far fetched to make the baseline...no guns?! We’ve tried guns and scores of people can be killed in seconds...
And what if there is minimal change in the number of lives lost and injuries sustained?

Or what if gun deaths go up because only criminals have guns?

Do we get to have all our guns back because gun haters have been proven wrong in their beliefs? (This does bring up the questions of of who will set the standards as well as the methodolgy in measuring the results.)

As with any law or tax, once something is in place, it's incredibly difficult to remove from the books! Oh sure, we could build an "expiration date" in to the law just in case it doesn't work. (Patriot Act anybody???...) But again, most temporary laws become permanent because "the conditions have changed" - or maybe nothing changes, but they still keep the law in place just because.

"Nothing is as permanent as a temporary government program."

...Why the fear to try no guns? I’ll tell you exactly why. The NRA buys politicians and people are afraid to be proven wrong when less guns yield less death.
By the way, in my opinion, LaPierre is a self serving, money grubbing, fearmongering POS! I dropped my membership years ago. The NRA started out with a great purpose, rifle marksmanship and firearms safety. The way it and it's leadership has devolved in to what it is today is disgusting.

So exactly how and why would the outlawing of guns be any more succesful than our war on drugs? Look at all the drugs that have been outlawed or strictly regulated, yet they are freely available and highly profitable for the criminals that traffic in them. Serious question!
 
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East Coast US...although the bear had successfully entered the garage, he/she was unable to raid my secondary refrigerator before the security system alerted me.
LOL... A buddy of mine has had to scare off a few bears from his attached garage in a large western US city.
 
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The simple truth is, with over 400 million guns in the US, making them illegal would only mean law-abiding citizens would be rendered defenseless in the face of a violent threat. Violent crimes are the ultimate disregard for the law. When one’s life is in danger, especially when threatened with a firearm, it is their God-given right to protect themselves and their loved ones from the threat.

Take all violent threats away and I will understand the case for stricter gun laws. But, as I have stated previously, there is no reason to assume that laws will be the catalyst that takes violent actors with 400 million guns at their potential disposal, and turns them into doves. I get the impression that we’re all rather well-composed and educated here. Not everyone is. And not everyone is as cooperative and compassionate. And some of those people will always have access to firearms. It’s a simple and unfortunate fact.
 
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Are you folks aware that 60% of your country favour stricter gun laws?
 
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Why does that matter?
Isn't it something that's worth looking into when the majority favour it, and when other countries have seen positive results from stricter gun laws as well?
 
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Nope. Not at all. Study up on your logical fallacies.

Argumentum ad populum
 
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Keep in mind I didn't say they're right... I said it's a reason that it's worth looking into.

America has the worst murder rate of all first world countries. By far. Shouldn't that be explored?
 
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Nope. Not at all. Study up on your logical fallacies.

Argumentum ad populum
In addition... the beauty of democracy is that it doesn't assign labels as limited as "right" and "wrong" to matters of policy. It's a system that is supposed to follow the desires of the majority, unless those desires would lead to unequivocally disastrous results.
 
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I'm open minded. Tell me how stricter laws are going to solve this complex problem. Germany, NZ etc. are all very different from the US. 400 million guns, we're starting with. We share a border with Mexico, which is exceedingly corrupt and is a portal for many dangerous and violent Central and South American countries. Our sense of community in our big cities is all but lost, and the prospect of a civil war in our lifetime is not far-fetched. The problem is multi-faceted. I am open-minded. Tell me how laws will do more good than harm.

And to clarify, to bring up the 60% figure it to suggest that it matters. And indeed, to do so is to put forward a logically fallacious argument. It is ad populum.
 
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Don't be so naive as to think right and wrong don't exist. The hope is that through democracy, the "right" path will be chosen, but this is not a failsafe method. Ad populum is a named logical fallacy for a reason.
 
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GunBank.com looking for $***** offer
 
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And to clarify, to bring up the 60% figure it to suggest that it matters. And indeed, to do so is to put forward a logically fallacious argument. It is ad populum.
You don't think the majority viewpoint matters in a democratic nation?

So your view is that the current state of the US is what requires the general population to carry guns. Do you think it's at least possible that current gun laws are partly responsible for the state of the US today?
 
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A friendly reminder as to what unifies all of us here.
Money? That's sad, man. You really think that's what unifies us all? I guess I would want guns too if I felt that way.
 
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Of course. Every single element we experience is a consequence of the laws, demographics, economics, etc. of our country. The laws play a vital role. This is why we cannot tinker with them at our whim. We must do so only as it is right to do so.

Again, I am open minded. Put forward a convincing argument as to why it right to change the gun laws.
 
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Interesting pro-gun video by an everyday citizen.
 
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Money? That's sad, man. You really think that's what unifies us all? I guess I would want guns too if I felt that way.

No Joe. We are domain investors.

Cheers
 
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