Guilty Feelings Going After Expired Domain Names

[Federer]

Dear Fellow members,

These days I am having guilty feelings backordering and going after domain names that expire.
Don't get me wrong, I love what I do and this is what pays my salary at the end of each month. I backorder/land about 100 keyword (expired) domains each month and quickly sell at least 25% of them for immediate cashflow and a healthy profit.
However, I am somehow feel guilty for backordering/re-registering these domains (what were other people's domains) and selling the for a great/immediate profit. I mean, I feel like I am taking advantage and profiting off someone's else's failure/forgetfullness to renew. They forget to renew - I then steal the name for such a low price - then go off to sell at a high price. It kind of feels unethical at times.
What your your opinons and viewpoints on this question... maybe I'm just a little over-sensitive these days. I want to continue what I am doing as I love this job/industry. But just need to get over this small emotional barrier...

 

[HBK216]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing. I assume you are doing nothing underhanded to acquire the names which are available via fair game to anyone who chooses to participate. It is the simple concept of supply & demand. You supply what end users demand & make a profit doing so.

I definitely think you are being over sensitive & will revert back to your usual style soon. Keep up the great work & continued success in the future.

P.S. I sent you an e-mail the other day.

 

[carob]

However, I am somehow feel guilty for backordering/re-registering these domains (what were other people's domains) and selling the for a great/immediate profit.

Hi people feel guilty about all kinds of things, eating too much, neglecting kids, some even feel guilty about making money - and not necessarily with justification.

But it is good to listen to that voice, it is your conscience and you don't want to get in the habit of ignoring it, but you want to have a dialogue with it, not assume it is always right. There's a great Mark Twain short story about the Conscience Who Came to Visit - I won't give away the plot, it is an easy read.

If you want an easy route to feeling better, donate some of your earnings to charities you believe in, or donate great name to them.

As far as the domains, unless they are TM by not renewing them they have lost the right to them. You could choose not to backorder, but you would be assuming they still want the name and will get it rather than another dropcatcher.


I can't find an obvious analogy for this - I'd say it's a bit like having a lease on a billboard in a prominent location, then forgetting to renew it. Absolutely nothing wrong with someone else then taking on the lease.

 

[alien51]

If you feel guilty about your business, then you can try donating half of your profits to charity. That way, it will ease your conscience to know that some peoples' forgetfulness to renew their domains will help feed starving children.

 

[Federer]

Thanks for the messages... and thanks Addomar for your private message... it's true what you say that if people forget to renew a domain, maybe (in 90% of the cases) it's because they simply don't need it anymore (or the name is not important enough for them to remember keeping/renewing).... so I shouldn't feel bad about backordering/re-registering and making a good profit by selling them to businesses that can put benefit from owning them, should I? Maybe it's just because it seems so easy to take a name that someone has "forgotten to renew" and flip it to an end buyer - taking the profit almost from under the nose of the previous owner.
But in reality, it does take a certain amount of precious time to find the right expiring keywords and then sending out a message a large pool of buyers, negociating the sale, transferring etc.

 

[Sparhawke]

Luc, you are the great at what you do so do not feel bad, if you forget to pay your mortgage you get evicted, if you forget to work you don't get no beer in your belly.

It is true that sometimes you may wonder who is on the other side but there are so many options for auto renewal that you cannot feel bad, now send me a PM telling me where you find them lol

 

[mwzd]

Buying / Backordering a domain is completely ethical, most times the person not renewing the domain doesn't really need it or doesn't want it and even if they do, you snooze you lose.

As long as the method you use to get the domain is legit, so is your business, at least imho.

What I would be interesting in is your technique in identifying the end users when you identify potential purchases, a lot of your domains don't make any sense to me that you even purchased it, let alone sold it for $x,xxx, which is the main mystery I'm interested in cracking.

I have seen your posts in the end users thread, but I'm sure it's missing some secret tool / method, or maybe I'm just dense.

Congrats on your success, we're all very envious, but totally pleased that one of us does it on such a regular basis as to be a template for our success.

Cheers!

 

[Sparhawke]

I think it is just confidence to do it, we spoke on the phone for a short time and I wish my family wasn't behind me whinging that someone had called out of the blue so we could chat longer, he has one of those really confident outlooks that you need I think.

Now why didn't any of that fall off him and onto me lol

Positive mental attitude goes a long way, he expects everyone to buy his domains so a lot do lol

 

[Kate]

...
I mean, I feel like I am taking advantage and profiting off someone's else's failure/forgetfullness to renew. They forget to renew -

Sometimes people forget to renew but most of the time the domains are just abandoned because they are no longer needed. Of course it's sad to lose a domain unwillingly but if you're complacent you're the one to blame.
Been there and I learned my lesson :gl:

 

[mclarence1]

Grow a pair! :bah:

 

[garptrader]

Average turnover in the industry is 1-2% so I believe you have earned the nickname the "Domain Marketing Machine" I'm sure there is quite a bit of hard work involved - both in the acquisition and prospecting process. There are many reasons why a domain drops and I'm sure while prospecting you get lots of less than pleasant responses. Many developers, small business owners and students consider domain registration with the motive of selling for a profit as unethical but why should it be? If a retailer, real estate developer, stock portfolio manager, manufacturer, etc obtains a favorable price which allows them to potentially sell later at a profit, does society label them scam artists for their activities? In the case of the stock portfolio or real estate investor, there is a real risk of things not working out as planned and taking a loss - ditto with domains. So congrats for inspiring the rest of us and enjoy the holidays.

 

[Federer]

What would you respond to this guy? (see below)! I would like to craft a reply – if you could mention a few points I could use in my reply back, it would be greatly appreciated.... surely I am not spamming if I am carefully targetting a large number of end users related to the KEYWORDS contained in the domains I am marketing?


"Are you aware that is against the law to register a domain name and then target potential buyers? You can list this at an auction and prolly get away with it but the first person who you email that sells real estate in Bend, which I do not can actually take your domain via a WIPO claim. Look into it. I have been through this. Your squatting with malicious intent. Just a heads up.

PS. Your also spamming when you email people not to mention you left out a price, meaning your baiting as well."

 

[SlimPickins]

as long as you are NOT contacting possible buyers BEFORE you secure the domain (which might cause possible TM issues for other bidders if they win) like you did in the past I don't think you have anything to feel bad about....

 

[NLP]

These days I am having guilty feelings backordering and going after domain names that expire.

I've felt this as well, and I think it makes complete sense. In my case, it's personal, because long before I was an investor, I let a name expire that I'd had for 7 years, and had gotten to #1 in Google. It was only a hobby - a fan site for an actress - but I'd poured my time & energy into it, and after my interests changed, I let it lapse. A few months later I realized it was a mistake, and tried to get it back, but Enom or whoever had it at the time (this was 2006) wanted $1900 for it.

Whenever I see names drop, I'm always curious whether it was on purpose, or not. Lots of people don't realize the rules associated with renewing and reclaiming domains, and figure the grace period is a lot longer than it is. Renewal notices go unnoticed, end up in spam boxes, etc. Yes, a fair number of names are dropped on purpose, but still, you never know.

As far as it being spam, technically I guess any unsolicited message with commercial intent could be considered spam. But what you're doing is not "malicious." If it's not repeated mailings and you remove anyone from your list who requests not to be contacted, you're in compliance, as far as I can see.

It's hard to say. There's a lot of hypocrisy in domaining, because on one hand we all hate getting unsolicited "for sale" emails (from China, or from those Domains(at)inline.me people) like everyone else, yet the "End Users" thread on this board is filled with thousands of posts advising people on the best way to email, and sell to, complete strangers.

That's why I laugh whenever someone says they hate spammers. Because we all do it too.

In terms of the guilt, I think it's a good sign that you feel that sometimes. It's empathy, and being able to relate to fellow human beings. There are plenty of acts of "good faith" that happen in domaining that don't get nearly as much publicity as the negative stuff. I came across a name on GD last week of one of the chefs on the Food Network (it's a .TV), and I instantly thought, "he deserves to have it." Even though I'm rather low on money this week, I bought it, and am going to pass it along to his people for the cost I paid.

Guilt and compassion are fine. It shows you're human. We're in the business of sales, but it never pays to think of your customers as numbers. And as for the guy who responded to you, I don't take people who say "prolly" seriously, so I wouldn't worry about him too much.

 

[Erdy]

I then steal the name for such a low price...

$59 at Snapnames isn't low! That's a lot of money.

---------- Post added at 05:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------

Renewal notices go unnoticed, end up in spam boxes, etc.

Yes, this happens. I have also seen domains that were registered by a web designer in his own name instead the clients. Unfortunately web designer do this quite a lot as a security measure.

 

[procanic]

If you are not back ordering ,Then the registrar will snap up the name and if they want the name back . They are going to pay a lot more. At least you could have some sympathy .. I doubt the Big company would..

 

[mwzd]

"Are you aware that is against the law to register a domain name and then target potential buyers? You can list this at an auction and prolly get away with it but the first person who you email that sells real estate in Bend, which I do not can actually take your domain via a WIPO claim. Look into it. I have been through this. Your squatting with malicious intent. Just a heads up.

PS. Your also spamming when you email people not to mention you left out a price, meaning your baiting as well."

To start with I wouldn't reply to him at all, why bother educating the ignorant when you could be selling?

If you must reply to him:
There is no law against registering and selling generic domain names.

WIPO, contrary to popular belief, isn't a carte blanche for business owners to infringe on a domain owners rights. Its a forum for arbitration and dispute resolution and there have been 1000s of instances of where domain owners have demonstrated higher rights than someone who 'thinks' they have more rights to the name, even if they thought about it 10 years too late.

And if selling without a listed price is an 'offense' then pretty much every auction house or brokerage firm would also find itself in the wrong.

And as for the guy who responded to you, I don't take people who say "prolly" seriously, so I wouldn't worry about him too much.

@NLP - great post, repped!

 

[Sparhawke]

^ This is what I would've said if I had seen it first.

Just because a pizza house is in New York does not give them the rights to own every Pizza domain in that city...

If you were going to reply to him I would take one of Johns post links and direct him to it...

 

[copper]

surely I am not spamming if I am carefully targetting a large number of end users
related to the KEYWORDS contained in the domains I am marketing?

Actually, in a strict sense, you ARE spamming if you send any unsolicited email.
And that's what you are doing, sending unsolicited email

I have been through this. Your squatting with malicious intent. Just a heads up.

I don't think his intention is to attack you just by reading this line -"just a heads up".
I would just reply with "Thank you for your wisdom and I certainly appreciate it.".
Or, just let it go and don't even send reply

 

[Erdy]

Actually, in a strict sense, you ARE spamming if you send any unsolicited email.

That's not correct in my opinion. It has to be unsolicited and bulk.

Dynadot has one of the best spam definitions I have seen:
http://www.dynadot.com/spam_policy.html

"Spam" is email that is both unsolicited and bulk. Unsolicited means that the recipient has not granted permission for the message to be sent. Bulk means that basically the same message has been sent to many people.

An email that is unsolicited but not bulk is fine, such as asking about a product before buying it. An email that is bulk but not unsolicited is fine, such as sending a newsletter. But sending an email that is both unsolicited and bulk is spamming.

I send unsolicited emails to potential buyers too.