advice Google’s John Mueller Cautions Against Keyword-Rich Domains

[News]

Keyword-rich domains may harm a website's long-term success, warns Google Search Advocate John Mueller. Here are five reasons why.

Keyword-rich domain names were once thought to be an effective way to increase a website’s visibility and improve search engine rankings.

However, there are several reasons why keyword-rich domain names can be detrimental to a website’s success.

Read More

 

[DealMaker1]

Keyword-rich domains may harm a website's long-term success, warns Google Search Advocate John Mueller. Here are five reasons why.

Keyword-rich domain names were once thought to be an effective way to increase a website’s visibility and improve search engine rankings.

However, there are several reasons why keyword-rich domain names can be detrimental to a website’s success.

Read More

Probably would have been better to link directly to the original in. She has tried to synopsize the original but it is obviously skewed.

Keyword-rich domains may harm a website's long-term success, warns Google Search Advocate John Mueller. Here are five reasons why.

Keyword-rich domain names were once thought to be an effective way to increase a website’s visibility and improve search engine rankings.

However, there are several reasons why keyword-rich domain names can be detrimental to a website’s success.

Read More

Yep. What this Mr. John Mueller does believe in is Google+, which he links to in his Twitter bio. However, that Google+ profile stopped working several years ago, because the service was discontinued by his employer.

Nothing to see here folks.

Yes. Good point.

No offense to John Mueller, I'm sure he's a stand-up bloke who works hard etc., but he's a search "relations" guy. That's code for "the guy who always draws the shortest straw" and has to do the obligatory pr stuff no one else in the office wants to do because of shyness complexes.

I also noticed the thinness of his dossier on LinkdIn. If anyone believes this gentleman is THE search engine expert for Google or something even close, I have a very nice piece of land in the Everglades I'd like you to consider...

 

[MKA]

Your data for PMD column is inaccurate.

No it's not. But if you think it is, then it's a good idea to explain why you think it. Because I can't read your mind.

It could be that you consider the word "galactic" to be a partial match for space travel, it could be that you consider the directory "/space" to make the domain a partial match, or it could be that you think the extension ".space" makes it a partial match. Either way it's wrong, but you need to clarify your position.

Thank you for more thorough information, yet the point is as also the message of this thread that, while trends changed the companies already knew of it and took the advantage of the partial matching domain keywords for their business despite EMD opportunities - as is also well established pratice in traditional business naming (example, 'Eat at Joe's' and not fully descriptive as 'Eat a Snack'). And that doesn't necessary was/should standing for the internet marketers where EMD was a fair chance to get into competition - for a market share(redistribution). Regards

You're confusing correlation for causation.

Businesses like "Joe's Diner" have been around for longer than the Internet, let alone search engines. So even though joesdiner.com is technically a PMD, it likely wasn't chosen for SERP bonus.

This is why people tend to stick to EMD:s in these arguments, because it's very difficult to discern the intent and purpose of a PMD. Even with spaceadventures.com you could argue that it isn't an exact match in the same sense as spacetrip.com. Because people looking to travel to space are more likely to look for [trip to space] or [space trip] than they are for something seemingly arbitrary like [space adventures].

At the end of the day this thread is about Mueller's comments, and these aren't new. He's been communicating these ideas to developers for years.

Some domainers are resistant to it because they've invested money into these kind of domains, and in this case they rather not have the truth getting in the way of future deals. But as the old saying goes, "the truth doesn't mind being questioned, a lie doesn't like being challenged."

 

[Business Brands]

Google is no longer the King. There are many places to advertise on right now.

 

[MKA]

EMD in domain name industry is what Michael Cyger said. Muler is no one in domain industry.. EMD is a category of domain that is valuable, and domain name expert has categorized that Diamond.com, Diapers.com, Insurance.com, LasVegas.com are EMD domains... And Best-Running-Shoes.com can't be sold as valuable EMD domain. This is domain name forum, so the category used is what recognized in domain name industry, not what people from other discipline said..

A domain is going to be of a category regardless whether it's valuable or not.

"Exact match domain" was introduced as a term to categorize domains that capitalized on common search phrases back in the day. And back then, best-running-shoes.com would've received preferential treatment for the search [best running shoes] on Google.

The purpose of domain categorization is to determine their value. An EMD is valued off its search volume, a brandable domain on the other hand is valued off its brandability. The extreme case is of course numeric domains, because the value of those are determined by the numbers' significance in Chinese.

And, technically LasVegas can be worthless as well, all you really need to do is to select a bad TLD, e.g. lasvegas.blue.

All Mueller is doing here is telling you (and the entire market) that Google does not give you preferential treatment for using a particular SLD. Not that good EMD are worthless, because (the good ones) still do have value due to their provenance. But if you're starting a company it's a better idea to look at something brandable, like microsoft.com or cloudflare.com over something like bestservers.com.

 

[MKA]

The problem is Muller says about Domain with Exact Match Keywords, and some one had connected it to EMD (Exact Match Domains). If it is said Exact Match Domains are bad, I must point out that it is wrong.

But that's not what he's saying. He's saying that a brandable domain is better than something like bestrunningshoes.com because the latter will not give you the search engine advantage so often propagated by domineers. The only reason anyone would buy bestrunningshoes.com for a business is if it gave you an advantage in the search results. Which we know is not the case today.

Very few reputable businesses are using EMD:s today, and those who do, e.g. namecheap.com probably wouldn't have chosen that name today.

If some one said that Diamond.com, Diapers.com, Insurance.com are not EMD, it is another wrong.

.. Michael Cyger's article is a good explanation of what are EMDs? This thread is full of wrong interpretation of what an EMDs are... That's all, no other thing I need to say...

There's no formal manner by which you can determine the category of a domain, there's a lot of grey area and it comes down to interpretation. An EMD, to me, has always been two words or more modeled after particular web-search.

In my opinion, any one-word domain is better identified as a generic domain, because that's a better measuring stick for their value.

Let's look at dictionary.com, a 10-letter domain that could be considered either a generic domain or an EMD.

foundation.com is a 10-letter generic domain, that isn't an EMD.

greatfoods.com is a 10-letter EMD, that isn't a generic domain.

If I were to ask you: is the value of dictionary.com closer to foundation.com or greatfoods.com? You'd hopefully say, foundation.com. Why is this important? Because it means dictionary.com is better compared to similar generic domains than to similar EMD:s. The same argument can be used for the domains you listed.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

Sounds like he has presented valid arguments.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

Maybe he want to say that as soon you have established your brand, Google will filter it like weed from wheat. Forgot that English saying from bible verse.

No. You basically don't have a brand name.

Call yourself "dental surgery" and your company isn't identifiable by that name.

The same reason that you can't register a trademark for the goods and services.

 

[MKA]

No. You basically don't have a brand name.

Call yourself "dental surgery" and your company isn't identifiable by that name.

The same reason that you can't register a trademark for the goods and services.

You can certainly brand something like Best Running Shoes, but it doesn't seem professional, and you're right in that it might be difficult to enforce a trademark with a phrase like that.

But the point Mueller is making is that you shouldn't buy bestrunningshoes.com or best-running-shoes.com for SEO because it won't help you with SEO. The fact that the domain is long and looks unprofessional is just salt in the wounds.

 

[MKA]

But a term like BostonRoofing.com can be.

In fact I sold that domain years ago, and the end users have done very well with it.
It explains where you are. It explains what you do.

That type of domain gives instant credibility in the area that some random "brand" is not going to.

EMD terms work better for some fields than others.

It can be extremely expensive to build a "brand" from scratch if there is no suggestion in the domain what you do. This is simply not feasible for many mom & pop type companies, which represent the vast majority of potential end users.

In certain professional fields like medical, law, etc. people tend to use their own names as brands more than EMD or made up brands.

Brad

For small businesses it can be a good to implement the service and location into the brand. But even then I get the impression that it was more of a brand-decision than a a way to get ahead in web-searches.

But even then I'd say Mueller's two points stand, it's difficult to expand, and it doesn't give you an advantage in SEO.

But I do agree with you that bostonroofing.com is an example of a good EMD.

 

[MKA]

I would say there is some truth behind the original statement, but John Mueller's comments go down the path of hyperbole.

His "best-running-shoes.com" example is a classic false dilemma logical fallacy. He is comparing what is objectively a terrible domain to a theoretical "brand" which is not named. That is not a fair comparison.

I think you're misunderstanding what he's trying to say. He isn't trying to prove that EMD:s (in general) are bad (in which case it would be a case of cherry-picking, not false dilemma). His point is that you're not getting a SEO bonus for saturating your SLD with keywords.

The other point he's making is that the "big boys" don't do this. They're called Nike, Puma, Adidas, New Balance, etc. not Best Shoes, Running Shoes, or Super Shoes. So you might come off as as a knock-off by branding yourself in that way.

It really depends on the field and type of domain. There are endless case studies of end users upgrading their domains to generics and doing very well with them.

Generic domains are the most valuable class of domains. Because something like precision.com has so much flexibility. It can be used for pretty much any business, and it's super-memorable. You can literally sit and read a news article and come across the word "precision" and be reminded of this company.

So of course, re-branding and upgrading to a generic can be fruitful. But we're specifically talking about

Some types of generics are far easier to "brand" than others.

I agree that "Dental Surgery" would be a questionable company name. It is very broad.

But at the same time you probably still want some suggestive term in your domain vs some random "brand" that is not connected to dental or surgery in any way.

Brad

Sure, but now you're leaving EMD:s and turning to brandables. smithsclinic.com isn't an EMD, it's a brandable.

 

[bmugford]

Not for Mueller's example, because he's specifically referring to EMD with an abundance of keywords.

This would be like me saying that most long abbreviated domains are bad, and you correcting me by claiming that 2 letter domains are worth millions. It's not applicable to what I'm saying.

So his point is that bad domains are bad?

The real takeaway is if you have some terrible EMD, with (2) hyphens, "everyone" will think you are a spammer.

I would go further and say that if you have a shitty EMD with (2) hyphens or a shitty "brand" with (2) hyphens there would be no difference.

His real point seems to be more "don't use terrible domains".

Brad

 

[MadAboutDomains]

True, but you are always competing regardless of your domain.

If their domain was BostonRoofing.com, RoofDoctors.com, RoofDoctorsInBoston.com, etc.
Boston Roofing is the perfect type of domain in that field when it comes to credibility.

You don't need to capture 100% of the market share.

I guarantee all things being equal, most people are going to choose BostonRoofing.com over RoofDoctorsInBoston.com or some terrible "brand".

Brad

In the context of that article I would say that BostonRoofing. com suffers from the things that are pointed out in that article.

 

[koolishman]

From what I understood at that time, people were regging keyword EMDs and making crappy content to rank. Hence Google decided not to give that advantage.

If you have an EMD and have relevant content, it has to get a boost , however minimal.

 

[JB Lions]

This topic seems to pop up almost every year. Even in 2012 they explained it pretty clearly:

2012
"Google algo change will reduce low-quality "exact-match" domains in search results."

2011
https://www.namepros.com/threads/google-search-updates-and-traffic.703931/#post-4066860

2014
https://www.namepros.com/threads/do...-names-days-are-numbered.813982/#post-4594644

2017
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ha...d-keyword-domains.1042430/page-2#post-6371900

 

[DealMaker1]

Hey John Mueller -- Why did Open Ai buy keyword, Ai.com?

Bull's-eye! A topical, practical example. AI is a top acronym/keyword AND a brand. But wait, I can search engine optimize OpenAI.com or open-ai- for-you-and-me.com, so why would I need AI.com? Because it's the perfect name that covers both the keyword and brand aspect of that niche. It's the Uber brand/keyword for that niche. Worth the $xxxxxxxx they paid for it.

 

[topdom]

Build a ppc site on mesothelioma-insurance-casino.com and make 50 USD profit for each click? Of course it won't work, and even if you are at the top for many searches, you will get $ 0,00 per click.

And then get a great domain, build a great site with great content, and get legitimate clicks, you will still get
$ 0,00 per click.
Adsense is dead. It was great from 2003-2010. Now they own operating systems, browsers (adreno and chrome),
why should they give you anything. Also they will be bankrupt for different reasons (and can be purchased by Elon (fake or real). )

 

[MKA]

Although the space keyword brand domains overview is example you've posted, it should be clear to you that although search engines are aiming to serve as information systems they are still serving people and taking on commonly present opinions as with compatible terminology even not necessary being exactly interchangeable.

No, it's not clear to me nor it shouldn't be, because it's wrong. We're not talking about vaguely related words, we're talking about keywords, and by blurring the line you're blurring the definition for what a PMD is.

Still, the business goal/purpose on the market could be contained in the brand name as descriptive, colluding ideals or stylistic symbolism, as the supportive logic in the public opinion.

Right. But that's different. Because now we're not talking about branding.

franksbbq.com is a great domain, not because it's a PMD, but because Frank's BBQ is a great brand.

 

[Future Sensors]

Here, Mueller specifically refers to keyword-rich domains (e.g. domains with many keywords in them),

To be fair, it was Search Engine Journal who came up with the term "keyword-rich". In the original discussion on Reddit, OP asked advice about a 2-keyword domain with or without a hyphen.

 

[MKA]

My point is, he did not use these words (keyword-rich) on Reddit.

Yes, but the question was, and I'm paraphrasing: "Do keywords in the SLD give you preferential treatment?" The answer is of course no, since Google's crawlers don't factor in the SLD. What matters is: the site content, the url directory-structure, backlinks, the number of visitors it gets (and how long they stay), etc.

Google has a free guide on how to optimize SEO that I highly recommend.

This is what Michael Cyger said about EMD :

Quote :

And EMD is either a single word like Insurance.com, a phrase like ReputationRepair.com, or a geographic location like LasVegas.com. Reputation-Repair.com and Las-Vegas.com would not be considered EMDs.

I more trust Cyger than some one who said best-running-shoes.com is EMD

In this case I'd have to disagree with Cyger.

Exact Match Domains refers to domains modeled after exact-match search results.

In other words, people might Google [new york car rental] if they want to rent a car in a New York. And if there's a website named New York Car Rental (or contains that phrase), that will be considered an exact-match for that search: because it contains every keyword that's being searched for in the right order.

Back in the day, when SLD did matter newyorkcarrental.com, new-york-car-rental.com, newyork-carrental.net were all considered EMD because they would've given you preferential treatment for the search [new york car rental]. That didn't mean that they were all equally valuable. There are worthless EMD:s, just like there are worthless domains of any other kind.

In this sense best-running-shoes.com is very much a EMD, because it's modeled after the search [best running shoes] on Google, which I imagine is a fairly popular search. The reason I think he uses hyphens (in this particular example) is to make it more legible.

I think it's important to understand that Mueller is not just "some guy", he's the Lead Search Engine Coordinator for Google. If anyone knows how Google's search engine works, it's him.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

You can certainly brand something like Best Running Shoes, but it doesn't seem professional, and you're right in that it might be difficult to enforce a trademark with a phrase like that.

But the point Mueller is making is that you shouldn't buy bestrunningshoes.com or best-running-shoes.com for SEO because it won't help you with SEO. The fact that the domain is long and looks unprofessional is just salt in the wounds.

Yes. They are the same thing. No brand name - no single term that isolates the results down to your brand. That's a huge problem.

 

[Future Sensors]

For small businesses it can be a good to implement the service and location into the brand. But even then I get the impression that it was more of a brand-decision than a a way to get ahead in web-searches.

Then I'd like to hear your opinion about the name BostonRobotics.com.

Edit: BostonDynamics.com it is.

 

[MKA]

Another example from one of my sales - WireJewelry.com.
Guess what they sell?

I think they are far better served with that keyword .COM than some random "brand".

Brad

Wirejewlery.com is a brandable, not an EMD, "wire jewelry" isn't a common search phrase.

Then I'd like to hear your opinion about the name BostonRobotics.com.

Edit: BostonDynamics.com it is.

You made your case for me with the edit. Boston Dynamics is not an EMD, it's a brandable.

An EMD means that it's a natural phrase people search for when looking for a service or product.

If I live in Boston and I'm looking for someone to fix my roof, I might Google [boston roofing] not knowing that Boston Roofing is an existing company. That's what makes bostonroofing.com an EMD.

 

[Future Sensors]

You made your case for me with the edit. Boston Dynamics is not an EMD, it's a brandable.

Lol, didn't look it up. So I remembered them as Boston Robotics. Says something about their brand name, marketing, and me.

 

[bmugford]

Wirejewlery.com is a brandable, not an EMD, "wire jewelry" isn't a common search phrase.

Wire Jewelry is most certainly a keyword. It can also clearly be used as a brand.
People who go there would know what to expect.

Just some other registrations in the field. It is a keyword.

wirejewelry.biz
wirejewelry.net
wirejewelryart.com
wirejewelryartist.com
wirejewelryartists.com
wirejewelryartists.org
wirejewelrybootcamp.com
wirejewelrybydave.com
wirejewelryclasses.com
wirejewelrycourse.com
wirejewelrydesign.com
wirejewelrydesigns.com
wirejewelryfest.com
wirejewelrylessons.com
wirejewelrymadness.com
wirejewelrymagazine.com
wirejewelrymasterclass.com
wirejewelrysupplies.com
wirejewelrytools.com
wirejewelrytutorials.com
wirejewelryworkshop.com
wirejewelrywrapped.com
alivewirejewelry.net
artwirejewelry.com
artisticwirejewelry.com
barbedwirejewelry.com
beadedwirejewelry.com
beadnwirejewelry.com
beadonawirejewelry.com
beadonawirejewelry.net
belindawickwirejewelry.com
bestwirejewelry.com
birdonawirejewelry.com
bishopwirejewelry.com
bldesignswirejewelry.com
coolwirejewelry.com
dasannispeakswirejewelry.com
designerwirejewelry.com
digwirejewelry.com
earthwindandwirejewelry.com
elegantwirejewelry.com
enchantedwirejewelry.com
finewirejewelry.com
gemsnwirejewelry.com
goldwirejewelry.com
groundwirejewelry.com
hammeredwirejewelry.com
handmadewirejewelry.com
hardwirejewelry.com
heywirejewelry.com
hiwirejewelry.com
hotwirejewelry.com
isabelleswirejewelry.com
isafarfanwirejewelry.com
jenniferswirejewelry.com
lbowmanwirejewelry.com
learnwirejewelry.com
learnwirejewelry.org
livewirejewelry.com
makewirejewelry.com
masterwirejewelry.com
onthewirejewelry.com
randomwirejewelry.com
rockinwirejewelry.com
sculptedwirejewelry.com
sculpturedwirejewelry.com
silkwirejewelry.com
silverbirchwirejewelry.com
spectralwirejewelry.com

Brad

 

[MKA]

False dilemma is the false choice between two options when more exist.

In this case he gave (2) choices. One is an objectively terrible domain.
The other is some unknown brand. It is safe to assume he is not referring to some terrible brand.

That is a false choice and a very disingenuous way he framed that point.

Brad

He's clearly not making the point that there are only two domains in the world to choose from. What you're thinking of is called cherry-picking, but he's not doing that either because his point isn't to prove that EMD:s are all terrible.

Lol, didn't look it up. So I remembered them as Boston Robotics. Says something about their brand name, marketing, and me.

I don't think there's a lot of search volume for boston robotics either. It's not like people looking to automate their factories aren't willing to consider options outside of their city.

Wire Jewelry is most certainly a keyword. It can also clearly be used as a brand.
People who go there would know what to expect.

Just some other registrations in the field. It is a keyword.

Brad

I've never heard of wire jewelry before. Maybe it's a thing people are specifically searching for, in which case you'd be right.

Cool then let's compare apples to apples.

Best-Running-Shoes.com is an EMD.
Blor-bbles.com is technically a "brand".

Which one is better?

best-running-shoes.com would be better. But I wouldn't consider blor-bbles.com a brandable either. Because it's not short and memorable.

You can't compare some shit EMD to some unknown brand.
That is not a fair comparison.

Brad

It depends on the point you're trying to make.

Mueller's point wasn't that EMD are all absolutely terrible and only idiots use it. His point was that it doesn't help with SEO, so a brandable (short and memorable) would be better.