Flippa Escrow - Why verify sellers id ? Weird ?

[voiceofreason]

Have been annoyed since Flippa removed Escrow.com as a payment option.
I am sure I am not the only one.
I have been toying with the idea of using Flippa's Escrow service.
Which was PromisePay, which renamed itself Assembly Payments
Promisepay doesn't seem to have glowing reviews, which is troubling. .
The thing is that the FAQ for Flippa Escrow states there is a possibility that they will request sellers to send a copy of their license NEXT to their face.
They base this on "Know Your Customer" which is apparently some sort of anti money laundering thing.
For banks. Not escrow companies
"Escrow Law defines "escrow" as "any transaction wherein one person, for the purpose of effecting the sale, transfer, encumbering, or leasing of real property to another person, delivers any written instrument, money, evidence of title to real or personal property, or other thing of value to a third person to be held by such third person until the happening of a specified event or the performance of a prescribed condition, when it is then to be delivered by such third person to a grantee, grantor, promisee, promisor, obligee, obligor, bailee, bailor, or any agent or employee of any of the latter.""
http://www.dbo.ca.gov/Licensees/Escrow_Law/About.asp
I can understand sending in some id, but holding id next to one's face ?
This seems a violation of several privacy laws in the US I can think of it.
Additionally, the customer in Know Your Customer is the one SENDING the money usually. So if Flippa is accepting buyer payment without KYW customer vetting, this makes zero sense.
"
“KYC” refers to the steps taken by a financial institution (or business) to:

• Understand the nature of the customer’s activities (primary goal is to satisfy that the source of the customer’s funds is legitimate)
• Assess money laundering risks associated with that customer for purposes of monitoring the customer’s activities":

I do not fathom the reason for Flippa's Escrow using such an overreaching method.
I sincerely hope that Flippa sees how they are limiting sellers by just offering a Flippa Escrow button
and a Paypal button.
There should be a third option for the seller to pick and write their chosen form of payment.

 

[voiceofreason]

Wow, just wow. I did not want to use Flippa Escrow at all. Even though I have sold over mid x,xxx there, I only like to use Escrow.com or Payoneer for my domains.
My most recent buyer was so quick on the draw that he did not read my sales copy.
When he won the auction , I even send him a PM to make sure he would pay via Escrow.com.
He paid via Flippa Escrow and then apologized for his oversight.
I thought I would go along with it and perhaps it would work out.
As it stands the buyer received the domain, released payment to me.
But not really since Flippa's Escrow is holding it hostage.
They sent me an email yesterday stating it was released.
The dashboard shows it is being released.
But I received a dreaded email from them asking for me to hold my govt id NEXT TO MY HEAD.
And scan it and upload to some cloud based service.
Holy moly, this is exactly why I avoided ever using their service.
I am looking over old threads here on NamePros and it appears this has been gone over before.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/flippa-and-his-curious-solution.910490/page-2
Flippa makes it appear that Promise Pay/Assembly Payments HAS to verify flippa sellers in order to send payments.
As one would read the Know Your Customer rules, it applies to paying customers and their source of funds.
I am not a paying customer of Flippa's Escrow service. I am a seller. The buyers seem to need to be vouched , btu not some draconian vetting of sellers.
This is not airbnb. I am not renting out my freaking house to people.
Flippa was happy to take all my listing and success fees with demanding any id proof.
I am just outraged right now.
And there is no way to even dispute this.
So I have no name and no money.
If anyone has any ideas, please share.

 

[comati]

i firmly believe their conditions are abusive and i'm glad to see 3 threads related to this on the front page of namepros, but in the end we vote with our money, people should read the terms and decide if they want to do business there or not.

not listing your names with them speaks louder than any thread on any forum.

oh and btw "escrow" is a misused term here, every marketplace has a payment system, most of them offer escrow services for deals done outside of their marketplace (e.g. sedo, godaddy, epik, etc.). flippa handles money for internal sales but they call it escrow

 

[maksimfa]

Have not used it as a seller, but as a buyer, did not have any issues.

 

[voiceofreason]

i firmly believe their conditions are abusive and i'm glad to see 3 threads related to this on the front page of namepros, but in the end we vote with our money, people should read the terms and decide if they want to do business there or not.

not listing your names with them speaks louder than any thread on any forum.

oh and btw "escrow" is a misused term here, every marketplace has a payment system, most of them offer escrow services for deals done outside of their marketplace (e.g. sedo, godaddy, epik, etc.). flippa handles money for internal sales but they call it escrow

Good point.
I have used Sedo, Godaddy and long ago, Afternic, and never encountered any issues with them and releasing funds.

Have not used it as a seller, but as a buyer, did not have any issues.

Maksimfa, I would be interested to know if they required you DOB, SSN and Photo ID in order to buy from them.
Please share with us if any details were required. Thanks.

 

[maksimfa]

Good point.
I have used Sedo, Godaddy and long ago, Afternic, and never encountered any issues with them and releasing funds.


Maksimfa, I would be interested to know if they required you DOB, SSN and Photo ID in order to buy from them.
Please share with us if any details were required. Thanks.

Just looked at my account, I have my phone number verified and do have my linked in profile connected.

Never uploaded SSN or Photo ID.

 

[Beezy]

Just a guess...

International companies have to deal with various laws in different jurisdictions. I'm sure this is to appease a certain government regulation somewhere on holding escrow. They wanted to be allowed to do it in that country so they are following this rule.

I recently read the Alibaba book and read about all the random hoops Alipay had to jump through for Chinese regulations (and all the trouble that caused for different investors in OTHER Chinese payment services as well as investors in Alibaba at the time).

When it comes to being approved or denied certain licenses, you usually make up the rules that will get you them, imo.

Also, domain sales can be used for money laundering and to hide money for tax purposes. Once again, they may have had to appease certain governments to get into certain markets and making sure to ID both parties may have been the answer.

 

[voiceofreason]

Just looked at my account, I have my phone number verified and do have my linked in profile connected.

Never uploaded SSN or Photo ID.

Sure, everyone needs to verify their phone number for a Flippa account.
I meant did you need to verify anything when making a payment to Flippa's Escrow wing ?

Just a guess...

International companies have to deal with various laws in different jurisdictions. I'm sure this is to appease a certain government regulation somewhere on holding escrow. They wanted to be allowed to do it in that country so they are following this rule.

I recently read the Alibaba book and read about all the random hoops Alipay had to jump through for Chinese regulations (and all the trouble that caused for different investors in OTHER Chinese payment services as well as investors in Alibaba at the time).

When it comes to being approved or denied certain licenses, you usually make up the rules that will get you them, imo.

Also, domain sales can be used for money laundering and to hide money for tax purposes. Once again, they may have had to appease certain governments to get into certain markets and making sure to ID both parties may have been the answer.

I have bored myself silly reading every possible guide to KYC.
As an American, it's the US that pushed for KYC for a very long time.
And the guidelines for it do not demand photos ids or such silly invasions of privacy as holding ids next to one's head.
"
Know Your Costumer (KYC) regulation applies to financial institutions and other regulated companies such as for example money transmitters and currency exchanges. It's stated goal is to make such companies report potential money laundering and to protect against identity theft.

The core component of KYC forms around following a Costumer Identification Program, which means that the above introduced institutions have to form a reasonable belief that they know the true identity of each costumer. "
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a8243c0c-19a1-4164-8ff2-0c85c0a234d2
Merely, due diligence by banking and financials orgs to know their customers. And from all cases studies I have found, KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER is completed before one becomes a customer, not midstream or after monies/goods are already transferred. KYC us not retroactive in case I have found.
But there are other options than Flippa's Escrow service, so whatever.

 

[maksimfa]

Sure, everyone needs to verify their phone number for a Flippa account.
I meant did you need to verify anything when making a payment to Flippa's Escrow wing ?




I have bored myself silly reading every possible guide to KYC.
As an American, it's the US that pushed for KYC for a very long time.
And the guidelines for it do not demand photos ids or such silly invasions of privacy as holding ids next to one's head.
"
Know Your Costumer (KYC) regulation applies to financial institutions and other regulated companies such as for example money transmitters and currency exchanges. It's stated goal is to make such companies report potential money laundering and to protect against identity theft.

The core component of KYC forms around following a Costumer Identification Program, which means that the above introduced institutions have to form a reasonable belief that they know the true identity of each costumer. "
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a8243c0c-19a1-4164-8ff2-0c85c0a234d2
Merely, due diligence by banking and financials orgs to know their customers. And from all cases studies I have found, KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER is completed before one becomes a customer, not midstream or after monies/goods are already transferred. KYC us not retroactive in case I have found.
But there are other options than Flippa's Escrow service, so whatever.

Nope, did not. Just made payments.

 

[voiceofreason]

Nope, did not. Just made payments.

Thanks for the input.
Just found out that Assembly Payments is only vetting sellers, not buyers.
Which is odd IMHO, because the source of buyer's funds and their ids are not being checked it would appear.
I have gone through this in the past (not in connection with Flippa though) when using Paypal.
Bad buyers using stolen cards who weren't verified.
While Paypal was super careful in verifying me......

Seller identity checks
Assembly manages Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and Counter Terrorism Financing (CTF) regulation compliance by performing Know Your Customer (KYC) checks and evaluations on your merchants.
Easy legal compliance
Simply paste a single paragraph into your terms and conditions – including a link to our end user agreement – and have your users agree to the changes to achieve full compliance.
1099-K reporting
Let Assembly handle all necessary tax documentation for your merchants, on your behalf.
https://assemblypayments.com/company/compliance/

 

[shabash786]

What if my buyer submitted thhe money in Flippa escrow and i sent him sold website and domain but now it appears that Assembly Payments required some kind of annoying identity documents and pics holdin my nic etc. is it now possible the payment to be reversed to the buyer?

 

[voiceofreason]

What if my buyer submitted thhe money in Flippa escrow and i sent him sold website and domain but now it appears that Assembly Payments required some kind of annoying identity documents and pics holdin my nic etc. is it now possible the payment to be reversed to the buyer?

Yes, of course they can. And I wouldn't trust their security in handling ids. Assembly Payments does not hold proper license and was fined as I have previously stated. They refuse to answer whether or not they have valid licenses in many states and countries.
Yet they require buyer and sellers ids and selfie ids? Insane.