Epik, We have a problem. Domain removed from account without permission.

[bmugford]

I am sure as many of you are aware I have had issues with Epik in the past, but decided to give them a chance when I saw a domain I wanted on Name Liquidate.

I purchased the domain PianoMoving.com on 7/20. It was transferred into my account then.
This was the only domain in my account.

It was in my WHOIS information.
I updated the nameservers.

When I just checked it is magically no longer in my account.
The nameservers were changed.
I received zero contact about the domain being moved.

I have all the receipts -

1.) The purchase/renewal from Epik.
2.) The Paypal charge.
3.) Email of when the domain was moved into my account @ Epik.
4.) Email when the nameservers were updated in early August @ Epik.

I don't see any indication that the domain was removed from my account.
On top of zero communication, there also appears to be nothing under "Outgoing Pushes" or "Task History".

I sent a DM to @Rob Monster about this earlier this morning, but have not received a response yet.

I was just notified I received a refund. I don't want a refund.

I want the domain I won, that was in my account, which I had full control over.
It was removed from my account without permission or even notification.

I do not find this acceptable in any way.

@Epik.com, you have some explaining to do.

Brad

 

[kor]

With the evidence you have, have you considered escalating the situation to ICANN?

 

[Start]

It was not an auction.

It is a listing where the seller has to opt-in

From the timeline, I think it was probably a "reverse auction" (gradual price decline) for an expired domain.

When looking at whois info for possible purchases in the past, I noticed earlier this year that expired domains at Epik automatically go to NameLiquidate.


And based on the timeline described and the expiry date for PianoMoving.com, I think this was a case of an expired domain that went to NameLiquidate... rather than a case of a domain owner opting-in to have it listed there.

That probably raises the question about whether Epik didn't properly process a renewal or if the domain owner forgot to renew it.

- I want to know why there is no record of the movement in my account.

Yeah, that does happen sometimes... which is something they really should change.


Is there a place in the control panel to see that?


I generally get an email if something happens to a domain. But I did notice that when I decided not to renew a few domains, I got an email about how they had expired out of my account, but that I can still recover them. But one of the domains was not mentioned... apparently because someone else had backordered it or something.


So overall:

- I think it was an expired domain reverse auction listing

- Their system doesn't always tell you if something happened to a domain... which they should change

- Someone really dropped the ball by not communicating with you (for over a week?) and not giving an immediate refund after the domain was removed from your account.

But I think if something underhanded/malicious had happened, it would have been smoother. Because it would be pretty dumb to purposely take a domain out this way, and not give a refund or communicate for a week, and then expect the owner to not be upset by that. Especially when it's the only domain in the account, so it's easy to see it's gone.

 

[bmugford]

A good quote. For Epik. For Jaime, the Customer Success Manager at Epik. For the domain seller. Something to think about...

Show attachment 222328

Well said by Warren Buffet.

At first we got the whole "They are at Namescon" response regarding this, but Epik is clearly well aware of this situation now.

Their lack of response, and failure to take any responsibility for what happened kind of boggles my mind.

Even if a "mistake" was made, it is their mistake not my mistake.

They removed the domain from my account after a month without authorization, notification, or record of it happening.

If Epik wants to make this right, I am open to discussions.

If their calculus is that ignoring this is beneficial to them, I think that is a poor decision.

Brad

 

[alcy]

wait so this name is sold under payment plan? epik? I thought those arent advertised as sold names anywhere til all payments done. so epik now is in control of it or what?

 

[alcy]

From the timeline, I think it was probably a "reverse auction" (gradual price decline) for an expired domain.

from what I know nameliq u just submit whatever names whenever.. it's not really about expired names going automatically there.. still most there is useless crap about to expire resellers dont plan renew... just like np sales.

 

[bmugford]

But I think if something underhanded/malicious had happened, it would have been smoother. Because it would be pretty dumb to purposely take a domain out this way, and not give a refund or communicate for a week, and then expect the owner to not be upset by that. Especially when it's the only domain in the account, so it's easy to see it's gone.

Well, I think you could argue regardless of any other facts something underhanded did indeed happen - the domain was removed from my account without authorization or notification.

Epik could have come out of this looking far better. They still can by doing the right thing.

They could give a full explanation of what happened, not just some generic excuse.

They could accept responsibility for what happened regarding the original sale, the unauthorized removal from my account, and the lack of notification.

They could make an offer to correct what happened by making me whole, for the loss I incurred.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

I just wanted to say I appreciate everyone who has posted in this thread, and not just in support.

I would request though that people please don't leave anonymous downvotes for others.
I don't think it is fair to people with other opinions or feedback.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

- I think it was an expired domain reverse auction listing

- Their system doesn't always tell you if something happened to a domain... which they should change

- Someone really dropped the ball by not communicating with you (for over a week?) and not giving an immediate refund after the domain was removed from your account.

I don't think expired domains are sent to Name Liquidate. According to the FAQ there is a seller and there is a buyer.

It sure looks like an opt-in decision by the domain owner.

https://nameliquidate.com/faq

Does my domain need to be expired to be listed?
Any domain that is not 15 days past expiration is eligible for listing on NameLiquidate.com

Can I sell my expired domain?
Yes, domains that have expired less than 15 days ago are eligible for NameLiquidate. If your domain expired April 10th 2021, the last day to eligibility would be April 25th 2021, for example.

 

[zomainhacks]

Yes, in my view that would be the bare minimum. I am not sure I would have sold the domain for $12,000.

Ideally, my priority would be to have the domain returned to my ownership.

Any "sale" that happened was unauthorized by me, the actual domain owner.

Brad

If they will settle the stuff with giving you the proceeds and you accept, they have to thank you for being a so nice gentleman.

You could very well have acquired it for personal projects or priced way higher, nobody knows since they didn't let you dispose of one of your goods.

 

[KTC]

I don't think expired domains are sent to Name Liquidate. According to the FAQ there is a seller and there is a buyer.

It sure looks like an opt-in decision by the domain owner.

Does my domain need to be expired to be listed?
Any domain that is not 15 days past expiration is eligible for listing on NameLiquidate.com

Can I sell my expired domain?
Yes, domains that have expired less than 15 days ago are eligible for NameLiquidate. If your domain expired April 10th 2021, the last day to eligibility would be April 25th 2021, for example.

Yeah, normally when it is expired and it is on EPIK, they get sent to their daily diamonds list. Nameliquidate has to be opted-in by the seller itself. Used it a couple of times myself, so since you snagged it from that platform, the defense of an error is highly questionable.

This whole thing from EPIK is super suspect. Had pulled my stuff out of there anyways since they lost the whole Afternic deal, but add in everything else that has happened over the past few years, I don't trust them in the slightest.

Brad, I hope you get an actual explanation out of this and not the generics. If they can do this to someone that has your standing, the rest of us don't stand a chance.

 

[branding]

I don't think expired domains are sent to Name Liquidate. According to the FAQ there is a seller and there is a buyer.

You can set the option to automatically send expired domains to NL. It's an opt in.

That may have been the case here like suggested. Not an excuse though.

All other expired domains, if not renewed or transferred, go to Epik owned landers 15 days after expiration where Epik is selling your domain as if it is their own asset to sell.

(It's possible to extend to 30 days, if you're lucky and they're in a good mood)

After that your domains end up at daily diamonds, another reverse auction and ultimately drop.

I think they also used to send names to other backorder venues but I'm not 100% certain.

 

[Future Sensors]

 

[disaac81]

This is awful.

So a name owned by you gets sold by someone else, and miraculously the name disappears from your account and someone else gets the money!

And to make it worse, no emails or anything that it happened.

Sounds like theft to me.

 

[bmugford]

Show attachment 222336

"However, once the domain is bought, the ship did sail since all sales are final. The verified registrant has sold the domain to the qualified buyer."

-Rob Monster-
2/2/2020

Fact Check - NOT TRUE

 

[bmugford]

This is awful.

So a name owned by you gets sold by someone else, and miraculously the name disappears from your account and someone else gets the money!

And to make it worse, no emails or anything that it happened.

Sounds like theft to me.

Poof, like magic. It was just removed from my account and moved to a new owner.

Brad

 

[novasyd]

Thats sonds like an Epik Rob bery.

 

[Start]

Expired domains do go to NameLiquidate.

I did a quick search now and found an example:

Check out americasbestshrimp.com... it's on NL. And the page at americasbestshrimp.comis the default page for expired domains at Epik (the flag isn't default, but the buttons and other content are).

I don't think it requires opt-in either. I once let a domain expire (decided not to keep it), and after it left my account, I saw it at NL.

It makes sense that they would put the expired domain inventory on NL.

And the americasbestshrimp.com timeline does match the timeline described for pianomoving.com. It has 5.5 days left, and the price would have been higher when it started at 7 days left.

 

[bmugford]

Expired domains do go to NameLiquidate.

I did a quick search now and found an example:

Check out americasbestshrimp.com... it's on NL. And the page at www.americasbestshrimp.com is the default page for expired domains at Epik (the flag isn't default, but the buttons and other content are).

I don't think it requires opt-in either. I once let a domain expire (decided not to keep it), and after it left my account, I saw it at NL.

It makes sense that they would put the expired domain inventory on NL.

And the americasbestshrimp.com timeline does match the timeline described for pianomoving.com. It has 5.5 days left, and the price would have been higher when it started at 7 days left.

Well, whatever the case, according to Rob Monster "all sales are final".

I guess we will have to see if someone buys the domain, and a month later it is reported as sold, and magically disappears from the owner's account without permission or notification because of some "error" or something.

Brad

 

[Start]

Well he shouldn't have said "all" there, since I can imagine a scenario where a domain gets stolen, and then the thief posts it on NL and it gets bought... in that case, the domain should be returned to the rightful owner, and the NL buyer would get a refund.

a month later it is reported as sold

This part also suggests to me that it was some kind of screw-up. I think there's some quote attributed to Napoleon along the lines of: when there are screw-ups, it's often due to incompetence and not malice.

I wrote above "But I think if something underhanded/malicious had happened, it would have been smoother. Because it would be pretty dumb to purposely take a domain out this way, and not give a refund or communicate for a week, and then expect the owner to not be upset by that. Especially when it's the only domain in the account, so it's easy to see it's gone."

...and it also would be dumb to nefariously take the domain from you, and then to announce the sale price.

I don't know much about Braden Pollack, but I do hear about his huge sales periodically... so it also seems unlikely that he would purposely sell the domain for less than $1000?

 

[bmugford]

I wrote above "But I think if something underhanded/malicious had happened, it would have been smoother. Because it would be pretty dumb to purposely take a domain out this way, and not give a refund or communicate for a week, and then expect the owner to not be upset by that. Especially when it's the only domain in the account, so it's easy to see it's gone."

...and it also would be dumb for the domain to be nefariously taken from you, and then to announce the sale price.

You mean they would have done a better job of removing the domain without authorization or notification, like I would never have noticed it?

I don't know much about Braden Pollack, but I do hear about his huge sales periodically... so it also seems unlikely that he would purposely sell the domain for less than $1000?

I respect Braden. We have done business in the past.

I have absolutely no idea on his role in this situation. He is more than welcome to clarify.

All I know is the domain could simply not have been magically removed from my account by anyone other than Epik. So, any sale is irrelevant unless they were able to pull it from my account, without authorization.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

I also want to clarify, for transparency, that there are no communications going on behind the scenes with any party involved.

No one has reached out to me to further explain what happened or to try and reach an equitable solution.

With that being the case, I will keep posting publicly and highlight what happened.

Again, this happened to me with (1) domain @ Epik. What are the odds?

Brad

 

[Keith]

And the americasbestshrimp.com timeline does match the timeline described for pianomoving.com. It has 5.5 days left, and the price would have been higher when it started at 7 days left.

The domain you mentioned isn’t expired. In fact, it has a buy it now of $4250.

Anyhow, @Epik.com should tell us what’s going on here.

 

[lambo.com]

I also want to clarify, for transparency, that there are no communications going on behind the scenes with any party involved.

No one has reached out to me to further explain what happened or to try and reach an equitable solution.

With that being the case, I will keep posting publicly and highlight what happened.

Again, this happened to me with (1) domain @ Epik. What are the odds?

Brad

I wonder if @Braden Pollock's involved. Either way it's bollocks.

 

[Start]

The domain you mentioned isn’t expired. In fact, it has a buy it now of $4250.

Nope, it's an expired domain.

I see the listing at GoDaddy for $4250, but that doesn't mean it's not expired.

And like I said, I saw my own expired domain go onto NL.

 

[AbdulBasit.com]

Sorry to hear it @bmugford .

Something similar happened with another NamePros member @owntype in the past where he bought the domain DomainNames.com for $2,577 and later NetworkSolutions took aka stole the domain and never returned it back. They gave similar excuses of an internal system mistake which is not at all acceptable.

I believe the domain was later sold for 6 figures by Network Solutions.