Domains "Taken" From Account Auctions/Closeouts

[DomainVP]

Hello to everyone.

Has anyone purchased a closeout or auction domain only to have it not arrive and GoDaddy states that "someone else bought it first"?

Let me be specific: I purchased a closeout domain hosted with GoDaddy, and I received a "Thank You For your Purchase" receipt. The domain then appears in my "Won" tab within the auctions panel, and has an arrival date etc..

The date of arrival comes, and then I get a "refund" instead of the domain.

This only started happening recently, but today it happened for a second time SPECIFICALLY to a domain that I feel has a bit of value. The first one ended up in the GoDaddy NameFind portfolio, which raised massive red flags to me. This one went to an account with privacy on it now (shocker).

I don't buy any of it, the system is still telling me that I'm the buyer aka "HIGHEST BIDDER".

I hate to accuse, but I know the process if someone actually buys it before you and the system processes both payments. This isn't it.

To be clear: I'm not talking about domains hosted with another registrar, these frequently don't convert because someone renews it. These are domains hosted at GoDaddy, won & paid for, and then the day of arrival they go somewhere else and then I get a refund and a half-answer from Auctions.

Now that you know the back story...
The TWO questions I am looking for answer for are:
1) Since GoDaddy implemented the 100% guaranteed purchase of closeout/auction domains, have you had a GoDaddy registered domain in your "Won" panel not come to you?
2) If yes, then have they told you that "Someone else had purchased it moments before"?

 

[Joe Styler]

Hi Joe, thanks for your reply allow me to take a second to respond.



The .COM domains in question (without the spaces and //) are:
Risk // Scores
Accu // Post




These are closeout domains that I am having issues with.



The domain did not go to the "Afternic - Pending buyer fulfillment" or "Afternic - On Behalf of Buyer". The domain in question went directly to the Namefind Portfolio account "Grand Cayman" / "KY" WhoIs.



Okay let me dive into this. Yes, someone can purchase a domain faster while the domain is in the 'holding'/'add to cart' period but when that happens a payment will process but the system will not award the domain to you. The domain is awarded to the other buyer, and will appear in their "won" section.

So there are instances where I have added a domain to the cart at the same exact time someone else did, and they paid before me by milliseconds yet our payments both submitted. In these cases the domain does NOT appear in my 'won' tab, nor does it assign me as "High Bidder" it says "outbid" and that's that.

It happens... I then file for a refund and it's awarded. No big deal.
Your team has been excellent facilitating my needs in this situation.


The issue here is that when I purchase a domain, I am the first payer AND I have been designated as the winner "High Bidder" by the system. Payment is processed, the domain will go into my "won" tab, and gives me an expected arrival date as expected. The domain then becomes "SOLD" and I am still the "high bidder". If my payment was second to another the system would have designated me as "outbid" and I would have not seen the domain in my "won" section.

Later the arrival date comes and these domains got diverted somewhere else and then I get a refund.

My problem is that the system is telling me that I paid first, and then mysteriously the domain just goes somewhere else.


Let me say this Joe. You and your team does an excellent job. I just had to communicate this here because I get canned responses when the problems get any more complicated than, "how do I connect my hosting".

I totally understand that systems make mistakes, especially when you are dealing with thousands of customers per second. Based on the information provided to me by the system, I believe that these domains should be in my account and may have accidentally gone elsewhere. What makes me feel like it was intentional are these canned responses I get from some of the agents when I am clearly taking the time to meticulously go thought the issue.

Your time and attention to this is appreciated Joe.

I will not comment on any customer info due to our privacy policies. I will say that neither domain is owned by us, has been awarded to us, Namefind, our partners etc. They are both owned by other customers bidding on the auctions just like you.

I audited the logs on the two names and here are the results. Keep in mind these are showing full second increments not milliseconds. I can't get that without pulling the developers off other projects. So the add to cart was probably extremely close in both cases.

The payments though are far enough apart to not need to pull milliseconds and that is what triggers awarding the domain name on a BIN auction. The add to cart triggers a hold to stop allowing others to add the same name so you can pay.

RiskScores

You
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:27 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:40 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:28 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:37 AM

Accupost

You
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:18 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

 

[Keith]

I will not comment on any customer info due to our privacy policies. I will say that neither domain is owned by us, has been awarded to us, Namefind, our partners etc. They are both owned by other customers bidding on the auctions just like you.

I audited the logs on the two names and here are the results. Keep in mind these are showing full second increments not milliseconds. I can't get that without pulling the developers off other projects. So the add to cart was probably extremely close in both cases.

The payments though are far enough apart to not need to pull milliseconds and that is what triggers awarding the domain name on a BIN auction. The add to cart triggers a hold to stop allowing others to add the same name so you can pay.

RiskScores

You
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:27 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:40 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:28 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:37 AM

Accupost

You
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:18 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

You already stated that when the domain is added to the cart it’s held. In this case “you” added to the cart a second ahead of the “auction winner”.

Did the domain go to “you”?

I’m referring to the 5/26 transaction.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Wow they were close

 

[Joe Styler]

@Keith It is and I also stated that sometimes it happens so fast we cannot hold it, and that this shows seconds and not milliseconds. It is quite possible that though the second shows 27 and 28 at a full second that the add to the cart was on the back end of the 27th second by one person and the front end of the 28th by the next. It is definitely split second and not full, and likely very very close. Which I stated up front is why this happens sometimes and while rare, more often now that closeouts are extremely competitive.

 

[Keith]

@Keith It is and I also stated that sometimes it happens so fast we cannot hold it, and that this shows seconds and not milliseconds. It is quite possible that though the second shows 27 and 28 at a full second that the add to the cart was on the back end of the 27th second by one person and the front end of the 28th by the next. It is definitely split second and not full, and likely very very close. Which I stated up front is why this happens sometimes and while rare, more often now that closeouts are extremely competitive.

In the case of riskscores.com it’s obvious that it should go to “you”. Your system either holds first in cart or it doesn’t.

 

[equity78]

I will not comment on any customer info due to our privacy policies. I will say that neither domain is owned by us, has been awarded to us, Namefind, our partners etc. They are both owned by other customers bidding on the auctions just like you.

I audited the logs on the two names and here are the results. Keep in mind these are showing full second increments not milliseconds. I can't get that without pulling the developers off other projects. So the add to cart was probably extremely close in both cases.

The payments though are far enough apart to not need to pull milliseconds and that is what triggers awarding the domain name on a BIN auction. The add to cart triggers a hold to stop allowing others to add the same name so you can pay.

RiskScores

You
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:27 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:40 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:28 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:37 AM

Accupost

You
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:18 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

Cool stuff Joe, those are the kind of breakdowns people need to see. Thank you for the effort.

 

[Joe Styler]

@Keith I don't think you are understanding how this works. The hold is there to help prevent the bad customer experience of buying a name and not getting it because someone else paid for it first. It normally works.
The hold makes NO difference on who gets the domain. The payment for the domain determines that in a BIN auction.

Theoretically as an extreme example you could throw a domain in your cart and never pay for it, then days later decide you want to buy it after someone else already paid and was awarded the domain in their account. We wouldn't give you the domain because you added it to the cart first. There are a lot of other considerations as well, for example, how do we know you adding a domain to the cart means you want to buy it and will buy it, and that your payment will work, etc? I add stuff to the cart all the time at companies and don't pay ultimately. If we went by that the ramifications on the auction would be substantial.

On our auction and any other that I know of its the payment that matters in a BIN auction. If you pay first you win. If not you lose.

 

[BRANDERX]

My experience is that it is held for 2 hours EXACTLY. Then if the payment isn't made, it'll show up at the auction search page, not the regular page.

Recently, unless I am signed in, the name could just disappear seconds or minutes later.

 

[Keith]

@Keith I don't think you are understanding how this works. The hold is there to help prevent the bad customer experience of buying a name and not getting it because someone else paid for it first. It normally works.
The hold makes NO difference on who gets the domain. The payment for the domain determines that in a BIN auction.

Theoretically as an extreme example you could throw a domain in your cart and never pay for it, then days later decide you want to buy it after someone else already paid and was awarded the domain in their account. We wouldn't give you the domain because you added it to the cart first. There are a lot of other considerations as well, for example, how do we know you adding a domain to the cart means you want to buy it and will buy it, and that your payment will work, etc? I add stuff to the cart all the time at companies and don't pay ultimately. If we went by that the ramifications on the auction would be substantial.

On our auction and any other that I know of its the payment that matters in a BIN auction. If you pay first you win. If not you lose.

Thanks for the clarification!

A simple solution would be to allow a time limit for payment on domains added to carts. For example, I’m the first to add to my cart and I have 10-15 mins to complete payment. Seems fair!

 

[Joe Styler]

We do do that. That is what the hold is. Except in some cases where the adding to the cart happens milliseconds apart the hold doesn't work right.

 

[DomainVP]

I will not comment on any customer info due to our privacy policies. I will say that neither domain is owned by us, has been awarded to us, Namefind, our partners etc. They are both owned by other customers bidding on the auctions just like you.

I audited the logs on the two names and here are the results. Keep in mind these are showing full second increments not milliseconds. I can't get that without pulling the developers off other projects. So the add to cart was probably extremely close in both cases.

The payments though are far enough apart to not need to pull milliseconds and that is what triggers awarding the domain name on a BIN auction. The add to cart triggers a hold to stop allowing others to add the same name so you can pay.

RiskScores

You
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:27 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:40 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:28 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:37 AM

Accupost

You
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:18 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

Thanks Joe. I really appreciate a clear breakdown of what happened. I know the “add to cart” times get exceptionally close so I appreciate the support you and your team provide.

Just a few questions...

AccuPost winner had a 1 second payment process?

So at best it takes me MANY seconds to get through the three page payment process after the domain is added to cart.

Was this an API purchase? If so I thought that this has been stopped when it comes to closeouts.

If not, then how can I get my cart setup so that I don’t have to go through three pages of payment agreements. To even add to cart as a non-API user it takes a few seconds to process.

I’ve set default payment, but there is still a payment selection screen, and agreement screen, and a pay and confirm screen.

Best advice is appreciated Joe.

 

[DomainVP]

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

It is at this point that we are back to the original issue.

No matter how fast your purchase a domain, the API Backdoor will always beat you because they can snipe a domain in 1 second when it takes at least 6-8 seconds AT BEST to get though the payment portal.

This has been going on for 3 years, and I though it would be fixed by now.

It's a backdoor that gives API purchase users an advantage.

 

[Joe Styler]

It is something I am looking into - a way to change closeouts. There will be changes coming this year very likely.

 

[wwwweb]

If comp. is fierce for closeouts put the human factor back into it, make people be physical, and present. Let the fastest human click win, be done with the API bots in closeout, it was never designed for such functions, and people have just abused it for their own benefit giving themselves an unfair advantage.

Close the closeout loophole connection, block it, give every customer the same level of fairness.

 

[pb]

Let me give you a 2020 update on how auctions go.

Let's say that you see a domain that you like... if you place a bid you are "DONE'.

When you place a bid everyone that is watching now sees your bid, and they descend. HugeDomains, other investors, me - we're watching.

If you place a bid in the last 5 minutes, good luck with that. HugeDomains will bid you up to $150 - $500 USD.

Notice how lots of times those "late bidders" don't even bid further. I started calling these "seed bids" and they're the worst kind, because all they do is bring in HD 90% of the time. I suspect they do it on purpose, or maybe they're just naive...

 

[Shackleton]

lynns.net was in my "won" section and paid for. Then I received this email from Godaddy.

Error on registration. Your purchase could not be completed, therefore we will be refunding the cost of registration

 

[DomainVP]

Notice how lots of times those "late bidders" don't even bid further. I started calling these "seed bids" and they're the worst kind, because all they do is bring in HD 90% of the time. I suspect they do it on purpose, or maybe they're just naive...

The initial "late bid" that comes in the last 5 minutes are mostly from naive buyers from olden times when a bid within he last 5 minutes might not get attention.

The initial first bid could also be out of frustration missing closeouts. Though most domains that fall to closeout aren't very good, and the ones that are it's hit or miss because of these API users that have 1 second purchase times.

Any bid after that is typically spite to get the HD bot attention forcing the initial bidder to lose the domain or pay dearly for it. HD bot typically won't go over $125 - $150 depending on the name.

Most of these closeout domains that go to $150+ are overpriced from the 1st bid. Any more than $20-$30 and they aren't worth the risk. As far as I'm concerned at least.

Heck of a game we play isn't it...

 

[DomainVP]

lynns.net was in my "won" section and paid for. Then I received this email from Godaddy.

Error on registration. Your purchase could not be completed, therefore we will be refunding the cost of registration

How long was it before you received the refund?

 

[Shackleton]

Originally billed June 16th and refunded today, June 20th.

 

[Joe Styler]

That domain was a partner company expired domain and it looks like it was renewed/redeemed and that is the reason the auction was cancelled and you were refunded. Typically domains that expire at GoDaddy will go to your account after you win them, but partner companies have various rules on the renewal of domains and sometimes the expired name will be renewed by the original registrant after the auction ends but before the domain fulfills to the buyer. That is what happened here.