Domain Liquidation Platform - Seeking input for new Epik project

[DanSanchez]

Dear Namepros,

The team at Epik is exploring the development of a project that aims to shift the painful domain name expiration process into a more profitable experience for domainers. Perhaps you have read my opinions about registrars selling expired domains and refusing to help registrants in recovery. The time to disrupt this with action has come!

In the meantime, since joining Epik last month, I decided to do something about it with the help of some amazing engineers. The goal of this "name liquidate" idea is to sell domains directly to buyers that may otherwise wait to acquire these domains at expired auctions or being filled as registrar backorders which pays zero to the registrant.

The planned solution addresses two domainer pain points,
1. Liquidation of expiring inventory brings much needed capital, meaning you can renew more of your portfolio.
2. Buyers get clear title and dont waste time bidding on names that can be recovered post-expiry.

Here is the process,
1. Submit your domains: you unlock your domains, provide auth codes.
2. Seller acknowledges that a fast-transfer of the domain will occur once domain has a bid.
3. Bidders agree to non-revocable change of ownership if their bid prevails.
4. Sellers receive a large portion (80%?) of auction proceeds.

The process begins with a 7 day reverse auction counting down hourly/daily, down to $1 plus renewal/transfer for delivery. The domain doesn't have to be expired or expiring. You can submit the name multiple times during the life of the name but not more than once per year. Once the auth code is verified:
• Epik parks the domain with auction template with Make Offer pricing so retail bids can come in.
• Wholesale buyers are informed of expired auction inventory update.
• Domain goes through reverse auction in 7 days
• Domains are fast transferred to Epik as soon as one bid is made.
• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.
• Domains already at Epik are pre-qualified for "name liquidate" services, but you must opt in manually.
• External domains are eligible once auth codes are verified.
• Data will include number of views, expiration date, and expected delivery.
• Pre-set domain buys will give you the ability to buy any name when a price hits a certain target.
• Once a bid is submitted, it cannot be revoked. All purchases a final non-refundable.
As for brand name, we are considering NameLiquidate.com — very descriptive name and targeted at a very specific audience. That said, open to considering other names. A separate brand naming project is coming shortly for what Rob describes as the “Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace”. This is separate.

 

[Ategy]

@tonyk2000 .. I honestly have no idea what all the other ones are .. lol.
(Well .. I probably do, but just not the names).

That problem and big different here is that with the US Treasury there's more than enough volume and demand that the market would be relatively liquid regardless of system used.

Here it's very different in that not only is every domain unique and different, but add to that the fact that there's a significant shortfall of volume of actual domainers. So here we have virtually zero liquidity (that's what we're hoping to change eventually).


SUGGESTION: @Rob Monster @DanSanchez .. You might want to send out an email for domains that do not sell with an invitation to transfer or renew. (Only ONE email per day for all potentially combined listing .. the same thing you DESPERATELY need to do for the frigging ICANN notices .. lol).

2. I am thinking to make it an option to allow Epik customers to set NameLiquidate as their default disposition at the end of grace period so that Epik customers can monetize their expiry streams.
What do folks think about that?

Before making too many more suggestions, the big question is if expired Epik domains will continue to go to a 3rd party clearance/auction going forward? If so at what point?

Before doing too much I do suggest you standardise the dates for everything. And more importantly you might want to consider more relaxed grace periods more in tune with the rest of the industry.

This is what I mean:

Day 0 - Domain expires on paper

Day ~12 - Domain functionally stops working (at 11:59pm)

Day ~16 - Last day normal clients can renew without redemption (until 11:59pm)

Day ~26 - Last day special clients can renew without redemption (until 11:59pm)

Day 30 - Maximum day domain can be renewed with redemption (until 11:59pm)

Day 31 - Goes to NameLiquidate at 1am but prices don't actually drop until 1pm (or whatever time tested most optimal). Be sure to spread them out over an hour or two (depending on quantity) so that they aren't all jammed too tightly together.

Day 36 - NameLiquidate reverse auction ends (whatever time found most optimal)

Day 37 - Goes to 3rd party platform
*OR*
Day 37 (alternative) - Continues in NameLiquidate new "Closeout section" going down $1 per day.

Day 42/43 - Gets kicked back to the registry.


Just in case you want to compare with GD, this is their timeline:

Day 0 - Domain expires on paper.
Day 12 - Domain functions stop.
Day 18 - Last day normal clients can renew without penalty
Day 25 - Last day premium clients can renew without penalty
Day 30 (11:59pm) last day
Day 35 - Expiration Auction Ends
Day 35 (End of each auction) - Domain starts at closeout $11 (go down $1/day)
Day 39 - $8 closeouts go to $5 closeouts
Day 40 - Domains at $5 closeout end
Day 40/41 - Any domains won get transferred to winner/buyer (there is a reason they wait, ask me in private if you want)
Day 42/43 - Gets kicked back to registry

There are some extra not well know aspects to GD that I didn't list that I can share with you privately if you want. But I don't see them as being particularly relevant.


ALSO: When it comes to those grace periods, in order to avoid disappointing people or getting a lot of calls to customer service, I strongly suggest any "deadline" be set to at least 11:59pm pacific time. That way people have until the end of the day to renew all their domains, instead of having each one randomly disappear during the day. Besides, the only time the "time" actually matters is on the final day before you kick the domain back to the registry, and by then it's no longer in people's accounts anyways.


ADDED: @DanSanchez .. did you figure out the non-expired renewal issue? Was I right in that the system charges the renewal if the domain expires within the next 60 days?

 

[Blitzpotz]

A short report after using NameLiquidate for several days now.

• Listing
  When I successfully added names to the auction inventory I am forwarded to the Epik Dashboard telling me that those names have been added to my Epik portfolio. There is an additional Epik E-Mail sent at the same time confirming this. However, I already had added these names earlier to the external domain section. Thus this info does not have additional value unless there would be a NameLiquidate listing information in the Dashboard scroll-down menu "Marketplace Status", e.g. (Perhaps there is such info which I missed then due to the amount of data.)
  
• Administration
  I would prefer to receive result E-Mails after the auction end "your domain ... did sell for / did not sell". Just for my bookkeeping and eventual tax inquiries a year or more later.
• Sales
  Yesterday I received a transfer request for a name that I knew was listed in NameLiquidate auctions. Happy, my first sale there. I accepted the transfer asap and Godaddy transfered it out in a second. I just did not receive any additional info about this sale by Epik/NameLiquidate. There are no funds added to my In-Store Credit, too. But I understand that this could take a while longer though transfer should be started after successful payment. The name in question is [edited].

 

[DanSanchez]

A short report after using NameLiquidate for several days now.

• Listing
  When I successfully added names to the auction inventory I am forwarded to the Epik Dashboard telling me that those names have been added to my Epik portfolio. There is an additional Epik E-Mail sent at the same time confirming this. However, I already had added these names earlier to the external domain section. Thus this info does not have additional value unless there would be a NameLiquidate listing information in the Dashboard scroll-down menu "Marketplace Status", e.g. (Perhaps there is such info which I missed then due to the amount of data.)
  
• Administration
  I would prefer to receive result E-Mails after the auction end "your domain ... did sell for / did not sell". Just for my bookkeeping and eventual tax inquiries a year or more later.
• Sales
  Yesterday I received a transfer request for a name that I knew was listed in NameLiquidate auctions. Happy, my first sale there. I accepted the transfer asap and Godaddy transfered it out in a second. I just did not receive any additional info about this sale by Epik/NameLiquidate. There are no funds added to my In-Store Credit, too. But I understand that this could take a while longer though transfer should be started after successful payment. The name in question is Psalming dot com.

Great points, I agree they are necessary steps to implement.

The transfer of a domain will delay your deposit because we manually check off every transaction to ensure delivery. This process will be automated as well.

Your transaction is verified and paid out. Thank you for approving the transfer so quickly, I am sure the buyer is happy.

The listing process has several improvements coming, I am waiting for the 7th of January like a kid waits on Christmas day. The dev team returns from a well-deserved break that day.

We will create a separate category for names listed on NameLiquidate and a way to list them from your dashboard. Ideally it will facilitate tracking current listings and encourage new listings.

The "result email" is another great suggestion, I want to implement that while the auction is in progress too. Honestly forgot I had listed a few names during the holiday rush.

Just three days left until NL Christmas!

In the meantime, we have seen a steady stream of new users and listings since launching.

Until then, here is a cool trick to segregate names you might like to buy. You can enter a TLD extension to find only .com domains (see uploaded screenshot) or link to it directly like this: https://nameliquidate.com/?searchText=.org

Looking forward to more updates shortly!

 

[Jevsim]

for some reason I cannot upload a domain to the platform:

Doublechecked the tCode - it is 100% correct.

submitted it as: domain.com [xxxxxxxxxxx]

Any suggestions?

BR, J.

 

[Blitzpotz]

submitted it as: domain.com [xxxxxxxxxxx]

Any suggestions?

Tried to submit authcode without [ ] ?

 

[DanSanchez]

for some reason I cannot upload a domain to the platform:

Show attachment 140651

Doublechecked the tCode - it is 100% correct.

submitted it as: domain.com [xxxxxxxxxxx]

Any suggestions?

BR, J.

BR yes, the auth code must not be encased by anything for it to work.

Domainmame.com 1868Hsh%@!

Let me know if that clears up the error.

 

[Jevsim]

Thank you Blitzpotz and Dan.

 

[Rob Monster]

Show attachment 140653


Thank you Blitzpotz and Dan.

Thanks guys. We are going to make that parser a bit more clever. This is the second time in a week that a user submitted auth codes in brackets. As they are symmetrical, it can be ignored by the parser.

@vitigo

 

[domaineed]

Apologies if it has already been answered, what happens if a domain sells elsewhere say via BIN lander or Afternic while listed at NameLiquidate. Thanks.

 

[Rob Monster]

Apologies if it has already been answered, what happens if a domain sells elsewhere say via BIN lander or Afternic while listed at NameLiquidate. Thanks.

The moment the auth code stops working or the domain is locked, the inventory is pulled from NameLiquidate. That all seems pretty dialed in already but we are monitoring.

 

[domaineed]

• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.

Apologies for the lack of clarity, I was specifically asking w.r.t this quote. Thanks.

 

[DanSanchez]

Apologies for the lack of clarity, I was specifically asking w.r.t this quote. Thanks.

This could be a temporary limiting or a permanent ban. The whole idea of this step is to prevent people from wasting time on the buy side. One of the biggest complaints of an expired marketplace is the removal of domains after they are found. If you have other ideas to curb this problem, let me know.

Things are lenient right now, mostly because this is still beta. The policy will come into full effect soon and removing domains after agreeing no to, will have some limiting factors on your ability to list more inventory.

 

[domaineed]

I understand the motive behind this policy which is commendable. However, it is not clear whether the auctions/listings are exclusive to the nameliquidate platform and cannot be sold elsewhere for the listing duration. Either a person should be asked to remove BIN from lander/afternic etc. prior to listing at NL or they should be allowed to remove listing if they provide a legitimate proof of a BIN sale. But I realize this can also be misused in one way or another. imo. Thanks.

 

[Ategy]

@domaineed .. NameLiquidate is an auction platform. As far as I know there isn't an auction platform in the world for anything (not just domains) which allows you to have your product listed for sale elsewhere during the auction itself.

Particularly here with liquidation domains, let's say a seller wants to take advantage of the platform to try to sell their domain for over $100 but no less. Then if someone buys it at $80, all the seller needs to do is say "oops I sold my domain elsewhere"? It can't work like that .. once you list your domain at auction you have committed it to be there for the entire auction period (particularly from the instant a NL buyer clicks "BIN").

There are cases on some auction platforms where people are allowed to cancel an auction before the first bid is placed. But it gets complicated with reverse auctions since there can only ever be one bid.

Moreover .. *IF* you sell your domain at auction *AND* you then sell it outside of the auction system, that domain legally belongs to the auction winner. So if they buy your domain for $20, but someone is now willing to pay $2000 for it, you get paid $20, and the balance (if the auction winner chooses to sell) would go to the auction winner.

That's also what happens here at @NamePros .. if a domain sells outside the scope during the course of the NamePros auction, then the profits of the sale belong to the auction winner. (It's actually happened before with a sizeable 4-figure sale a couple years ago I think)
(@Mod Team Bravo .. please confirm my interpretation of the rules so I'm not spreading false info .. thanks)

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

That's also what happens here at @NamePros .. if a domain sells outside the scope during the course of the NamePros auction, then the profits of the sale belong to the auction winner. (It's actually happened before with a sizeable 4-figure sale a couple years ago I think)
(@Mod Team Bravo .. please confirm my interpretation of the rules so I'm not spreading false info .. thanks)

It depends. Take a look at the examples in this guide:

• What if a domain in my NamePros Auction has sold elsewhere or may sell elsewhere?

We hope that helps.

 

[domaineed]

@Ategy Agree and thanks for your detailed post. I was thinking of a situation where a domain sells for say 300 at NL, someone missed it and hit the landing page BIN at say 350. A seller finds themselves in a situation where the sale price at two different venues is close and neither party wants to relinquish their rights to the domain name. It's seller's fault so they have to be banned at one of the platforms (what if landing page BIN is hosted at Epik lol). I'm hoping that the policy statement makes it clear whether NL is an auction platform and that the listings are exclusive. imo. Thanks.

 

[Ategy]

Well .. that would be particularly messy since legally you no longer own or have rights to the name the moment someone acquired it through auction (at $300). So by having it listed (or specifically by the simple act of not removing your outside listings in time) and selling something you don't actually own (at $350), you'd actually be committing fraud.

As @DanSanchez mentioned, in general we're talking relatively minor amounts, so if exceptions are made chances are nobody is going to go bankrupt. However the bigger problem is that if too many exceptions are made, then the integrity of the platform collapses because some people would be forced to bid higher amounts if they were worried the domain auction would be cancelled for such reasons. It would be seen as manipulation in the eyes of potential buyers.

But yeah .. ultimately if someone makes a rare mistake and sells the domain *AND* asks to remove the domain before anybody clicks BIN .. then it's not the end of the world. I suppose rare exceptions could be made as long as NL has enough time for them to remove the domain before someone clicked BIN. But the moment someone grabs it, there can't be any exceptions (even if you asked them to remove it before someone hit BIN), and worse .. if you are unable to provide the domain to NL so they in turn can give it to the auction winner, then you are defaulting on a legal agreement .. because in turn if NL is unable to provide the domain to the auction winner they are breaking a legal commitment (not sure what's actually in the legal terms, but in some jurisdictions it doesn't really matter what's in the terms, as there are many cases where certain TOS terms can't override certain laws).

 

[DanSanchez]

Working on several updates before the weekend rolls in, one of which is the expansion of the auction time to 7 days. Another critical update is the search form, hopefully we can continue improving this with your feedback.

This is the initial mockup from the original design. It may not look exactly like this in application.

More details as we go into Friday!

 

[tonyk2000]

Please let the visitors download plain text lists No need to add any extra data like estibot or domain age or anything. As a domainer, I have my own tools. So far I did not yet bother with copypasting and filtering out spaces etc, which is why I had no chance to purchase anything...

 

[Ategy]

Noticed a couple changes .. what are the new pricing/timing "steps"?

I don't really think speed is an issue at the end. We need to remember that 95%++ of these domains unfortunately will not sell even if they were at $1 (+renewal). ... The real key is to pull out as much value as possible from the domains that do sell. Get those $15 sales that otherwise would have been $9. So it's important those final stages actually not be too fast. ... Two very key crucial features that would have a significant effect of inflating final prices are:

(1) The already mentioned increasing proxy / bidding (effectively the same thing)
.. AND ..
(2) Showing a timer to the next price drop.
(Be sure to include wording/info that covers the final hour at $9)

Here's a very quick suggestion for prices instead of the current $13.93 steps. Probably find something a bit better if you looked at it a bit deeper as I came up with this in a few minutes. Basically $20 drops until $250, then $10, then a gentle progression at the end.

_OLD_ NEW
998.00 999
984.07 979
970.14 959
956.21 939
942.28 919
928.35 899
914.42 879
900.49 859
886.56 839
872.63 819
858.70 799
844.77 779
830.85 759
816.92 739
802.99 719
789.06 699
775.13 679
761.20 659
747.27 639
733.34 619
719.41 599
705.48 579
691.55 559
677.62 539
663.69 519
649.76 499
635.83 479
621.90 459
607.97 439
594.04 419
580.11 399
566.18 379
552.25 359
538.32 339
524.39 319
510.46 299
496.54 279
482.61 259
468.68 249
454.75 239
440.82 229
426.89 219
412.96 209
399.03 199
385.10 189
371.17 179
357.24 169
343.31 159
329.38 149
315.45 139
301.52 129
287.59 119
273.66 109
259.73 99
245.80 89
231.87 79
217.94 69
204.01 59
190.08 49
176.15 39
162.23 35
148.30 32
134.37 29
120.44 26
106.51 23
092.58 20
078.65 18
064.72 16
050.79 14
036.86 12
022.93 10
009.00 9

ADDED:

Please let the visitors download plain text lists No need to add any extra data like estibot or domain age or anything. As a domainer, I have my own tools. So far I did not yet bother with copypasting and filtering out spaces etc, which is why I had no chance to purchase anything...

Yes x 100 on this. Although for me I'd actually like to see a csv file WITH those stats.