Wanted Domain Liquidation Platform - Seeking input for new Epik project

[DanSanchez]

Dear Namepros,

The team at Epik is exploring the development of a project that aims to shift the painful domain name expiration process into a more profitable experience for domainers. Perhaps you have read my opinions about registrars selling expired domains and refusing to help registrants in recovery. The time to disrupt this with action has come!

In the meantime, since joining Epik last month, I decided to do something about it with the help of some amazing engineers. The goal of this "name liquidate" idea is to sell domains directly to buyers that may otherwise wait to acquire these domains at expired auctions or being filled as registrar backorders which pays zero to the registrant.

The planned solution addresses two domainer pain points,
1. Liquidation of expiring inventory brings much needed capital, meaning you can renew more of your portfolio.
2. Buyers get clear title and dont waste time bidding on names that can be recovered post-expiry.

Here is the process,
1. Submit your domains: you unlock your domains, provide auth codes.
2. Seller acknowledges that a fast-transfer of the domain will occur once domain has a bid.
3. Bidders agree to non-revocable change of ownership if their bid prevails.
4. Sellers receive a large portion (80%?) of auction proceeds.

The process begins with a 7 day reverse auction counting down hourly/daily, down to $1 plus renewal/transfer for delivery. The domain doesn't have to be expired or expiring. You can submit the name multiple times during the life of the name but not more than once per year. Once the auth code is verified:
• Epik parks the domain with auction template with Make Offer pricing so retail bids can come in.
• Wholesale buyers are informed of expired auction inventory update.
• Domain goes through reverse auction in 7 days
• Domains are fast transferred to Epik as soon as one bid is made.
• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.
• Domains already at Epik are pre-qualified for "name liquidate" services, but you must opt in manually.
• External domains are eligible once auth codes are verified.
• Data will include number of views, expiration date, and expected delivery.
• Pre-set domain buys will give you the ability to buy any name when a price hits a certain target.
• Once a bid is submitted, it cannot be revoked. All purchases a final non-refundable.
As for brand name, we are considering NameLiquidate.com — very descriptive name and targeted at a very specific audience. That said, open to considering other names. A separate brand naming project is coming shortly for what Rob describes as the “Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace”. This is separate.

 

[domaineed]

@Ategy Agree and thanks for your detailed post. I was thinking of a situation where a domain sells for say 300 at NL, someone missed it and hit the landing page BIN at say 350. A seller finds themselves in a situation where the sale price at two different venues is close and neither party wants to relinquish their rights to the domain name. It's seller's fault so they have to be banned at one of the platforms (what if landing page BIN is hosted at Epik lol). I'm hoping that the policy statement makes it clear whether NL is an auction platform and that the listings are exclusive. imo. Thanks.

 

[Ategy]

Well .. that would be particularly messy since legally you no longer own or have rights to the name the moment someone acquired it through auction (at $300). So by having it listed (or specifically by the simple act of not removing your outside listings in time) and selling something you don't actually own (at $350), you'd actually be committing fraud.

As @DanSanchez mentioned, in general we're talking relatively minor amounts, so if exceptions are made chances are nobody is going to go bankrupt. However the bigger problem is that if too many exceptions are made, then the integrity of the platform collapses because some people would be forced to bid higher amounts if they were worried the domain auction would be cancelled for such reasons. It would be seen as manipulation in the eyes of potential buyers.

But yeah .. ultimately if someone makes a rare mistake and sells the domain *AND* asks to remove the domain before anybody clicks BIN .. then it's not the end of the world. I suppose rare exceptions could be made as long as NL has enough time for them to remove the domain before someone clicked BIN. But the moment someone grabs it, there can't be any exceptions (even if you asked them to remove it before someone hit BIN), and worse .. if you are unable to provide the domain to NL so they in turn can give it to the auction winner, then you are defaulting on a legal agreement .. because in turn if NL is unable to provide the domain to the auction winner they are breaking a legal commitment (not sure what's actually in the legal terms, but in some jurisdictions it doesn't really matter what's in the terms, as there are many cases where certain TOS terms can't override certain laws).

 

[DanSanchez]

Working on several updates before the weekend rolls in, one of which is the expansion of the auction time to 7 days. Another critical update is the search form, hopefully we can continue improving this with your feedback.

This is the initial mockup from the original design. It may not look exactly like this in application.

More details as we go into Friday!

 

[tonyk2000]

Please let the visitors download plain text lists No need to add any extra data like estibot or domain age or anything. As a domainer, I have my own tools. So far I did not yet bother with copypasting and filtering out spaces etc, which is why I had no chance to purchase anything...

 

[Ategy]

Noticed a couple changes .. what are the new pricing/timing "steps"?

I don't really think speed is an issue at the end. We need to remember that 95%++ of these domains unfortunately will not sell even if they were at $1 (+renewal). ... The real key is to pull out as much value as possible from the domains that do sell. Get those $15 sales that otherwise would have been $9. So it's important those final stages actually not be too fast. ... Two very key crucial features that would have a significant effect of inflating final prices are:

(1) The already mentioned increasing proxy / bidding (effectively the same thing)
.. AND ..
(2) Showing a timer to the next price drop.
(Be sure to include wording/info that covers the final hour at $9)

Here's a very quick suggestion for prices instead of the current $13.93 steps. Probably find something a bit better if you looked at it a bit deeper as I came up with this in a few minutes. Basically $20 drops until $250, then $10, then a gentle progression at the end.

_OLD_ NEW
998.00 999
984.07 979
970.14 959
956.21 939
942.28 919
928.35 899
914.42 879
900.49 859
886.56 839
872.63 819
858.70 799
844.77 779
830.85 759
816.92 739
802.99 719
789.06 699
775.13 679
761.20 659
747.27 639
733.34 619
719.41 599
705.48 579
691.55 559
677.62 539
663.69 519
649.76 499
635.83 479
621.90 459
607.97 439
594.04 419
580.11 399
566.18 379
552.25 359
538.32 339
524.39 319
510.46 299
496.54 279
482.61 259
468.68 249
454.75 239
440.82 229
426.89 219
412.96 209
399.03 199
385.10 189
371.17 179
357.24 169
343.31 159
329.38 149
315.45 139
301.52 129
287.59 119
273.66 109
259.73 99
245.80 89
231.87 79
217.94 69
204.01 59
190.08 49
176.15 39
162.23 35
148.30 32
134.37 29
120.44 26
106.51 23
092.58 20
078.65 18
064.72 16
050.79 14
036.86 12
022.93 10
009.00 9

ADDED:

Please let the visitors download plain text lists No need to add any extra data like estibot or domain age or anything. As a domainer, I have my own tools. So far I did not yet bother with copypasting and filtering out spaces etc, which is why I had no chance to purchase anything...

Yes x 100 on this. Although for me I'd actually like to see a csv file WITH those stats.

 

[DanSanchez]

Noticed a couple changes .. what are the new pricing/timing "steps"?

ADDED:

Yes x 100 on this. Although for me I'd actually like to see a csv file WITH those stats.

Quick update for tonight, I am working on an update for tomorrow. New price drop is still hourly but over 7 days, instead of 3. Each domain now has it's own page, which makes marketing much easier. Will be adding number of views, number of watchers, and other data.

More to come...

 

[tonyk2000]

Will be adding number of views, number of watchers

Wasn't it discussed with much details earlier, that at least number of watchers should not be disclosed? and all agreed imo

 

[Ategy]

I can't say I'm a fan of views being public .. but definitely "Number of Watchers" should not be public in order to maintain for platform and auction integrity.

Platform integrity because then people simply won't use the feature for fear of tipping other people off to domains they want.

Auction integrity because the domains you're interested should remain private until you place a bid.


Not only should such information not be public, to maintain auction integrity it needs to be baked in that NOBODY (including staff) be able to access that information for security reasons.

This is a huge concern I have with the integrity of GoDaddy auctions because those metrics were public at one point in the past .. and the real question is if they really removed those from the platform, or simply stopped them from being visible on the website (but still available to those with API access .. which would be VERY wrong) .. it's why I no longer "watch" auctions at GoDaddy (and recommend no one else does either ..as if it's still information that's tracked and available via API access then by "watching" domains, you're just helping HugeDomains find domains)

 

[RJ]

"Somewhat stressful, but also kind of fun" -- that was my experience with NameLiquidate from the buyers' perspective last night. There was one name in particular that was listed for auction that I really desired, so I stalked it for the duration of the the auction while the price dropped, hour by hour. Since there was no way to place a proxy bid, I was low-key worried that I would miss the auction entirely if I wasn't able to be near a computer when the auction was ending.

This reverse auction format requires some mental gymnastics, weighing the probability of someone else snagging it first against the cost benefit of being patient for the price drops. In the end, I purchased it as soon as the price hit $15. Admittedly, I would have paid significantly more if I knew there was any competition out there for it, but I made a calculated guess that there wasn't (at least on this platform) and it paid off.

There were 8 other names in the same batch that piqued my interest, but I wasn't in love with any of them, therefore I was willing to take a more patient "get-them-if-I-can" approach and wait for the final price drop for these names.

As soon as the final price drop happened, it was a race to get them into my shopping cart and checkout as fast as I possibly could. I grabbed my It was a anxiety-laced adrenaline rush not knowing if I was competing against anyone or not, and ultimately satisfying as I was able to get 8 of the 9 that I wanted for the minimum price.

The domain transfers all completed within an hour or two and the domains are in my account now. Overall a pretty good first experience with NameLiquidate as a buyer.

 

[Ategy]

I completely missed ComputerTheory .. very nice get!

I actually casually had my eye on NerdCartel, but forget to come back on time. It made me smile .. hope it finds a happy home.

You're definitely right about there needing to be a proxy system. Again, (as a potential seller) I'd prefer to see live upward bidding while the BIN drops over time. But nothing new .. I've said it all above and/or in emails to those concerned, so hopefully it's just a matter of time!

 

[RJ]

Thanks @Ategy. I like NerdCartel too. It was the first one I bought in that list.

It was kind of fun. Since I was in such a rush to checkout, I was buying them one or two at a time and going in the order of most-wanted to barely-wanted. I had not researched them well ahead of time so I was doing snap judgments and some impulse buys.

I hope this marketplace continues to grow because it was fun buying names like this. I was probably just competing against myself, but it feels like low-stakes gambling.

 

[DanSanchez]

"Somewhat stressful, but also kind of fun" -- that was my experience with NameLiquidate from the buyers' perspective last night. There was one name in particular that was listed for auction that I really desired, so I stalked it for the duration of the the auction while the price dropped, hour by hour. Since there was no way to place a proxy bid, I was low-key worried that I would miss the auction entirely if I wasn't able to be near a computer when the auction was ending.

This reverse auction format requires some mental gymnastics, weighing the probability of someone else snagging it first against the cost benefit of being patient for the price drops. In the end, I purchased it as soon as the price hit $15. Admittedly, I would have paid significantly more if I knew there was any competition out there for it, but I made a calculated guess that there wasn't (at least on this platform) and it paid off.

The domain was computertheory.com.

I teach computer science for my day job, and am in the process of developing my own curriculum. This name fits perfectly into my future plans, so I'm super happy about the purchase.

There were 8 other names in the same batch that piqued my interest, but I wasn't in love with any of them, therefore I was willing to take a more patient "get-them-if-I-can" approach and wait for the final price drop for these names.

As soon as the final price drop happened, it was a race to get them into my shopping cart and checkout as fast as I possibly could. I grabbed my It was a anxiety-laced adrenaline rush not knowing if I was competing against anyone or not, and ultimately satisfying as I was able to get 8 of the 9 that I wanted for the minimum price.

dogemart.com
gidat.com
homecounselling.com
limoshuttles.com
nerdcartel.com
polyamorist.com
raregrains.com
spaceclimate.com

The domain transfers all completed within an hour or two and the domains are in my account now. Overall a pretty good first experience with NameLiquidate as a buyer.

All of those were my names, glad to see that particular name go to a nice home RJ! The liquidation experience from a seller's standpoint was liberating. Approving the names for transfer was strangely freeing. Didn't have to worry about renewing them and I kept the returned capital for future transfers. This IS a big game changer. I made a quick vlog about it and will be posting it soon.

 

[RJ]

Thanks @DanSanchez!

I agree, and had the same feeling when I had listed the 200+ names as a seller, knowing I couldn't unlist them -- and liberating is a good way to describe it. I was listing names that had been sitting idle in my portfolio for years and I've reached a point where I want freedom from the renewal fees on old names to make room for new names I can market or develop.

Domainers have always wanted liquidity. The future of domaining may involve more low-value exchanges of domains between domainers.

 

[NicTraders]

I can't be bothered reading the last 8 pages of this thread. So, can someone please tell me: are there plans for buyers to be able to place bids ahead of time? I.e. they see a name they like and instead of hitting BIN they can 'bid' $20 so that as soon as the auction drops to that price (as long as they're the highest bidder) they'll win the domain. Seems essential to me (and should net much better prices and sell-through rate). There's no way I can be bothered recording names I'm interested in then going back to see how they're fairing. Not to mention that time zones are an issue. I already barely sleep as it is.

 

[DanSanchez]

I can't be bothered reading the last 8 pages of this thread. So, can someone please tell me: are there plans for buyers to be able to place bids ahead of time? I.e. they see a name they like and instead of hitting BIN they can 'bid' $20 so that as soon as the auction drops to that price (as long as they're the highest bidder) they'll win the domain. Seems essential to me (and should net much better prices and sell-through rate). There's no way I can be bothered recording names I'm interested in then going back to see how they're fairing. Not to mention that time zones are an issue. I already barely sleep as it is.

No worries, it's a ton of content to digest on one page alone.

Here are the answers,

1. Yes, a pre-buy target will be established soon. Ideally you will be able to snipe stuff automatically with funding inside your account.

2. Watching list is also coming soon, you will be able to keep better track of the names. That being said, those people using manual tracking now are winning the best names.

Happy hunting and thanks for giving this a try!

 

[Rob Monster]

I can't be bothered reading the last 8 pages of this thread. So, can someone please tell me: are there plans for buyers to be able to place bids ahead of time? I.e. they see a name they like and instead of hitting BIN they can 'bid' $20 so that as soon as the auction drops to that price (as long as they're the highest bidder) they'll win the domain. Seems essential to me (and should net much better prices and sell-through rate). There's no way I can be bothered recording names I'm interested in then going back to see how they're fairing. Not to mention that time zones are an issue. I already barely sleep as it is.

Yes, scheduled bids are coming soon -- the engineers are working on it now.

 

[tonyk2000]

But, how is it supposed to work if 2 different buyers experessed an intention to purchase the same domain for lets say $20, and nobody purchased it for $21 or higher?

 

[Rob Monster]

But, how is it supposed to work if 2 different buyers experessed an intention to purchase the same domain for lets say $20, and nobody purchased it for $21 or higher?

Fair question.

People can and should snipe at $20.01, $20.02, etc. With reverse auctions that is possible.

So, the bids should be possible to place at an exact price, not a round number.

 

[tonyk2000]

The techs should still consider this exact possibility. Ok, two equal bids - $20.01 each. So?

 

[Rob Monster]

The techs should still consider this exact possibility. Ok, two equal bids - $20.01 each. So?

The tie would have to go the guy who got there first.

If we published those pre-bids, then of course people would just adjust their bids, so it has to be stealth.

However, the outcome of who won and why should be transparent.

 

[NicTraders]

No worries, it's a ton of content to digest on one page alone.

Here are the answers,
Happy hunting and thanks for giving this a try!

Yes, scheduled bids are coming soon -- the engineers are working on it now.

Great, thanks both. This is also much better from a seller's perspective since it should gain better prices while maintaining high liquidity.

 

[Rob Monster]

@Mod Team Bravo raised a topic today about revenue share on the whole expiry stream at Epik. It is a good question and it prompted a thought about how domain owners could opt in for expiry monetization:

NameLiquidate - Immediate after grace period ends: Revenue-share 91%

Snapnames - Day 36: Revenue-share 50%

Daily Diamonds- Day 44: Revenue share 50%

Is that a game-changer?

Are there other places we should be monetizing the expiry stream?

We did sign up with ExpiredDomains.net as an affiliate though their impact has been nominal and I find their UX to be very confusing. NameInvestors.com will likely be much better in due course.

Anyway, since the NP Mods apparently find this topic interesting, happy to discuss.

 

[tonyk2000]

Replacing Snap with GD auctions might be a good idea. However, taking in account their operational mode and strange things happening, it may not be possible. Would they provide detailed domain-by-domain stats for sold domains, what domain was sold and for what price? Or, would simply wire total monthly $$$ amount without extra details?

 

[NicTraders]

I was meant to be looking at selling rather than buying, but spend//wize.com just dropped to $1 so I couldn't resist. I reckon it was a wise spend.

 

[NicTraders]

@Rob Monster may I suggest that in due course it would be good to see some NameLiquidate branding on the confirmation emails rather than just epik branding (assuming you want to build the NL brand as well)?