alert Deadbeat Megathread

[Rob Monster]

The industry is maturing and new people are coming into it from around the world. At the same time, scammers are getting more sophisticated. Some of them use real, valid credit cards but then initiate chargebacks after cashing out their bogus sale. Some of these folks apparently think nothing of using their real identities to engage in blatant crimes -- digital shoplifting.

Unfortunately, the domain industry does not have a viable law enforcement. In order to mature, the industry has to become effective at self-policing, and self-correcting. In a world of growing wealth inequality, there will be more people doing desperate things. This is regrettable, and cannot be tolerated since it makes it harder for everyone to do business, and puts a bad light on the industry. I would like to see a constructive solution.

For calibration, last month alone, Epik had more than $10,000 in writedowns from 4 Indian domainers who worked together on a single scam involving cash-out to BTC. They know who they are. We have given them a month to sort themselves out and replace the funding source but with no remedy. I think we need a thread where this nonsense gets exposed so that more folks don't get scammed, and so that thugs leave the industry.

I am thinking something like this:

- Allow the deadbeat a reasonable time to fix their error, e.g. at least 7 days but preferably 30 days.

- Give them plenty of fair warning that they will be exposed.

- Bring incontrovertible evidence of the crime and the criminal.

- Allow the information to be retracted/edited once the crime has been corrected.

What do you think?

 

[bmugford]

Speaking of self-policing Rob has quoted Black's Law Dictionary and talked about self-governance multiple times. That is what sovereign citizen nutters do...People who don't want to deal with pesky things like licensing or regulations.

Those things exist exactly for this reason, so an unlicensed escrow company does not commingle funds leaving customers to be f*cked over, while they go into hiding.

Brad

 

[equity78]

Already have several like https://www.namepros.com/threads/an...mation-of-bad-buyers-warn-the-others.1145739/

Counter thread with those opposed to https://www.namepros.com/threads/doxxing-yes-or-no.1152159/#post-7377696

 

[Dave]

Will take to DM

 

[NickB]

Off the top of my head, reach out to Interpol, Cyber Crime Division and discuss the domain industry, make them aware of the problems being faced and look at educational and partnership opportunities.

Good thing is it is a global organisation.......

https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Cybercrime

 

[branding]

Enough of the criticism I'm actually glad you bring this up as maybe it's an opportunity to let debates like this for once come to a conclusion.

I'm curious what NP's stance is on this matter, if they care to comment at at all.

 

[Dodo Domains]

Some of them use real, valid credit cards but then initiate chargebacks after cashing out their bogus sale. Some of these folks apparently think nothing of using their real identities to engage in blatant crimes -- digital shoplifting.

I'm involved in several online businesses. This is true across the board.

The credit card companies will always side with their customer over a merchant.

I agree with offthehandle about taking a wire transfer for high value or high risk transactions.

 

[wwwweb]

I'm involved in several online businesses. This is true across the board.

The credit card companies will always side with their customer over a merchant.

I agree with offthehandle about taking a wire transfer for high value or high risk transactions.

Not taking credit card payments is the kiss of death modern day. With high risk transactions I suggest locking domain, and payouts down for 30 days. Sad to see a few people ruining it for many once again.

With the increasing prices in this industry, it is disgusting to see all these snakes slithering in, and trying to game small benefits that help legitimate domainers.

 

[wwwweb]

So the 4 Indian domainers who scammed you are NP members?

What do you mean standards, specifically. Why can't you go ahead and start a thread here? Or handle it legally. Why would NP handle your scammer issues for you? I'm really not understanding what you want from NP.

I say call them out by name, no way they are going to pay because they fear no recourse there, always been the issue. I say let real Indian based domainers deal with these clowns in India directly, maybe they will see real justice then.

 

[oldtimer]

"scalable framework for self-policing"

What does that mean?

Perhaps what Rob means is that he likes to see a unified effort on behalf of the domain Industry to combat fraud.

@Rob Monster , The problem is those who are well established here are not going to scam you and those who steal domains or buy their own domains off of the sales landers and pocket the payment are out of reach or not worth it to pursue across different continents. You just have to put better safeguards and wetting procedures in place to minimize your losses, but some of it just can't be avoided as any one in business knows.

The other alternative is to hire a domain bounty hunter who has gun and will travel

PS: I am already tired from doing so much typing on the other Rob's threads so not going to go back and forth here again.

 

[Haroon Basha]

I love NamePros, and I have been dealing with honorable NamePros members with no issues; so far I have not come across even a single incidence wherein I was cheated by NamePros members. NamePros has a unique image, impeccable image of its pure neutrality, highly discipline and believes and adheres to fair trade policies. There may be a few incidents of frauds for other members, but NamePros has its own combat weapons that will be used against the fraudulent members.

 

[barybadrinath]

Sir why not register a complaint against them In India.
If you want I will do that on your behalf. It's very sad and unfortunate, that these so called Indians are doing fraud.

 

[branding]

In a world of growing wealth inequality, there will be more people doing desperate things.

And the bigger the gap gets the more authority the wealthy claim to suppress the less fortunate. The more wealthy people take their resort to desperate measures.

Eventually the less fortunate are the ones to suffer from blacklists and entities that act as judge, jury and executioner. Basic history.

 

[Tia Wood]

I think you mean we’ll but we already have a warnings area. Plus your case scenario is not typical.

 

[JB Lions]

Still no specifics on what you want. You can out them here. NP can ban them. You can take legal action on them.

In plain English, what else are you looking for?

"If fraud is allowed to continue without consequence"

What do you want besides what's already available?

 

[Rob Monster]

Still no specifics on what you want. You can out them here. NP can ban them. You can take legal action on them.

In plain English, what else are you looking for?

JB -

It is quite clear:

- I am looking for input on a scalable framework for self-policing.

- I am looking for input as to whether NamePros will play any role in designing and applying a framework.

You have this habit of repeating yourself when the answer was plainly explained. It is not an endearing quality. Too often, your combative rhetoric muddies your intellect. Pity.

 

[JB Lions]

JB -

It is quite clear:

- I am looking for input on a scalable framework for self-policing.

- I am looking for input as to whether NamePros will play any role in designing and applying a framework.

You have this habit of repeating yourself when the answer was plainly explained. It is not an endearing quality. Too often, your combative rhetoric muddies your intellect. Pity.

You have a habit of not being clear.

"scalable framework for self-policing"

What does that mean? We're supposed to self police Indians scamming you?

If this is clear, can somebody else post what Rob actually wants, if you can figure it out. Is this supposed to go endless pages of people guessing.

I am looking for input as to whether NamePros will play any role in designing and applying a framework

Well, they already have a forum for this stuff. But that's not good enough for you since you say it has no "teeth". And we already have existing laws. I guess you already know about liability and why a forum will only go so far. Is this just a setup for yet another Epik product you're thinking of releasing?

 

[JB Lions]

Perhaps what Rob means is that he likes to see a unified effort on behalf of the domain Industry to combat fraud.

Well, you used the word perhaps, which means you have no idea what he's talking about either. oldtimer, what do you feel you could have done better to stop those Indian domainers that scammed him? Doesn't make sense does it. I'll do my part.......Please be nice, don't scam people, you scammers. Is he going to post his future deals and maybe we'll do some group thing and then let him know if we're ok with the deal? I have no idea how NP members were supposed to stop those scammers.

 

[Lox]

... seriously , no doubt someone will leak information and or method, giving away gift card to scammers.​

 

[The Durfer]

sounds like you need a group private messaging feature, where the group thread can decide whether to expose the person or elicit group or not then bring it forth like a report and let the other person defend publicly or follow the correction. While protecting the identity the whole time because what good would it be with a tainted identity going forth either.

 

[Tia Wood]

JB -

It is quite clear:

- I am looking for input on a scalable framework for self-policing.

- I am looking for input as to whether NamePros will play any role in designing and applying a framework.

I don’t think NamePros is the proper place. They usually don’t get involved with outside transactions and they have their limitations. I think what you want would require too much dev and staff resources for a forum.

Plus, your scenario is not typical, it likely wouldn’t happen outside of a registrar.

 

[imadoer]

Please start the mega game player thread I will contribute every week

 

[wolfis.com]

Doing something is better than doing nothing ... currently there is nothing to really help victims ! ... around 20 years ago I got scammed out of a Hefty sum while buying a domain using escrow.com and even escrow was not safe or even supportive .. after a domain i bought turned out to be stolen and Netsol returned it to the rightful owner within 2 days of me buying it through escrow.com .I ask escrow for support ... for the persons real name and address anything to file a police report but escrow.com refused . Nothing .. no help ... this is why I do not ever use escrow.com again ! They are as much of scammers as the real thief ..

Bottom line : if everyone would do what they are suppose to do .. we would not even have such a big problem with scammers and thieves . ... start one of these support sides and I will support the cause as much as I can .. just like everyone else should support it .

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Great idea, people need to be held accountable in this business.

 

[NamesCost]

Who are these people?
and
Where is the shame wizard when you need him?

 

[LarryDomain]

I try to only deal with USA buyers. Too many scams coming from countries like India and other third world countries. Only way I sell to them is via crypto! Paypal is the biggest NONO in the world. I will also accept bank transfers. Escrow can be dangerous too..