Confidentiality SUCKS

Discussion in 'General Domain Discussion' started by MapleDots, Apr 29, 2017.

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  1. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Confidentiality Sucks

    I have had 3 big sales at 75k each and in each case I signed a confidentiality clause which prohibited me from talking about the domain.

    In retrospect I find this really hampers my domaining business because I cannot give examples of my big sales to prospective client. Since I specialize in a unique targeted part of the market I rely on sales statistics to justify prices.

    So here is my dilema...

    I am in the midst of closing my biggest sale to date and it is well over the 200k mark. The problem is they want me to sign a confidentiality clause. I swore I would never sign another one and I am sticking to my guns. I turned them down flat and said no deal.

    Now I know you are all thinking that was pretty stupid but I don't think so. First off, I don't think I will lose the deal and secondly I need my sales stats to target other sales.

    The biggest players in the business regularly publish their sales statistics and they become like gods in the industry. They sell a domain based on the fact they got huge money for previous sales.

    Looking for some feedback here from anyone who has had some larger sales.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
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  2. CJ6

    CJ6 Green Leaf Names VIP

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    Larger sales? Not me. :)
    Congrats on your sales. You are hired. ;)

    To be honest, if I was paying a large amount for a domain, I wouldn't want it public.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  3. indiegrind

    indiegrind Established Member

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    I'm in my first big sale right now in range with your prior sales and buyer did not ask for confidentiality. I have stopped disclosing sales on my own accord but was considering the benefits of disclosing.


    I'm sure this would definitely get me some exposure based on how little I paid for the name about a year and a half ago and it would be in the top 30 Year to date reported sales on DN Journal.

    As a part timer with a busy schedule, I want to increase my opportunities and domain investment business.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  4. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Leap.com PRO Business Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Have the NDA expire after a certain time period, e.g. 1 year, as a middle ground. After that, you can spill the beans.

    P.S. Being a "god" in the domain name industry, plus $5, will get you a Big Mac at McDonald's.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  5. offthehandle

    offthehandle Nunca creer sin informar de todo. Business Account VIP

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    Why do you want publicity on Namepros or in the domaining world? Respect your customer's wishes to remain private is all I can say, I know you are happy to have done such a large deal and congratulations. But corporations and industry don't like telling everybody else their business strategies and directions- it's common sense. That's the same as you revealing your own sales niche here on namepros that you sold it to in reverse. Why would your other customers care that you sold a name to another company (potentially their competitor) for a huge amount? All deals are different. Keep smiling man, and don't gloat!
     
  6. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    HeHe, how right you are but you need to consider.....

    The big players can buy domain names you and I would struggle to sell and get good money for them because of who they are. They have had some of the biggest sales in the industry and if they own a domain people assume it has greater value. So there is something called perceived value and trust me it does make a difference.

    If someone's portfolio has a bunch of $100 dollar sales and someone else has a number of $100,000 dollar sales then public perception is the guy with the bigger sales has a better portfolio because he has more experience with the big sales. Now I understand in the end the domains is what counts but it sure can bring a lot of credibility when you can advertise some big time sales.

    So from here on forward I will not be coerced into confidentiality clauses and I stood firm on my last negotiation. I want to show sold domains on my website because it makes a difference in perceived value. Why else do you think real estate agents publish ads of houses that are already sold? It is to show the consumer that the agent knows his stuff and can sell your house. A domain property is no different and I prefer to display my own sales instead of someone else's.
     
  7. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    @offthehandle

    My post above kind of answers your question as well.

    Domain name sales need to be reported accurately, it has nothing to do with gloating, it is business.

    We rely on namePros to be an accurate source of information and these confidentiality clauses are causing half our sales to go unreported, that could be one of the reasons domain names are not fetching the money they used too. Previously almost every deal was reported.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  8. offthehandle

    offthehandle Nunca creer sin informar de todo. Business Account VIP

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    Why do you compare yourself to all the other big sales hoopla? You are an owner of a property, and that property may be equal to some namebrand guy everybody posts info on here. More power to them and their success, all that does is announce the market is alive. Corporations don't read this forum and if they do, you are now revealing your position in a somewhat arrogant way. BTW: Real estate agents I have known on both spectrums- those who gloat, and those who are silent, btw driving around in Mercedes doesn't impress everybody.
     
  9. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    I'm going to make one last attempt to explain it to you even though you called me arrogant (not cool). I will let my actions speak louder than that be trying to explain it one more time.

    My house is worth 1.5 million dollars

    Will I list it with....

    1. The really nice real estate agent driving a honda?

    2. The real estate agent driving the ferrari with the flyers in the back displaying his previous sold listings.

    I want to sell my home so I am going to list with the agent that is successful and shows a history of sales. I would like to use the nice guy with the honda but the agent that shows me he knows how to hustle and sell my house will get the deal.

    There is no arrogance, there is no show off, there are just facts.

    If I have 3 similar domains and sell one for 10k then I set a precedence and can ask more for the similar domains. If I can't talk about the sale then it hampers my ability to sell the other two.

    I hope that clears it up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  10. offthehandle

    offthehandle Nunca creer sin informar de todo. Business Account VIP

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    I sent a PM, no issues I have a different opinion. Keep smiling, much success.
     
  11. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Established Member

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    I would take the money and sign the NDA any day over being labeled a 'GOD'......Even $1 dollar in this case.
     
  12. Want2learn

    Want2learn Business Member Business Account

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    Let me introduce you to . . . confidentiality.sucks

    It is available!
     
  13. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    I have no god like ambitions.... I merely stated the big boys that sell in the millions are revered like gods on namePros and in the domaining industry. If I drop domain1 and it is picked up by one of these players then magically the domain rises in value. The experienced people here on namePros will know about that, it has been the topic of a few conversations.

    This topic is not about me, it is about the fact that the more sales that get published by these so called domaining gods the higher their stature and perceived value of their portfolio.

    So if an average domainer (like me) has a few good sales why not show them as sold on my website, it shows my domains have value and may aid in making another sale on a similar domain.

    Again, nothing to do with wanting to become anything and more to do with maximizing sales potential.
     
  14. Want2learn

    Want2learn Business Member Business Account

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    Perhaps there is some middle ground to be found! I completely get what you are saying. And I agree wholeheartedly with your point. I hand reg b-o-s-t-o-n.com because I saw Rick S had c-h-i-c-a-g-o.com. 7 out of 10 crapped on my domain, i did have a few positive Pms. If Rick came on here and said he just reg boston, he would be goat (greatest of all time). So believe me, you are spot on!

    Now here is where if we were in business together I would encourage you to seriously consider the suggestion from earlier. How many 200k domains do you have in your portfolio now? If I could be so "arrogant" ;) to assume not many at the moment, I would say to push for a time limit on the confidentiality clause. Lets say you close the sale. Say a 18 month agreement. Now over next 12 months can purchase some new "property". Maybe some of your current holdings mature and you sell them. Maybe 18 mo agreements, maybe not. Now we are at 18 months and you can publish the deal. You have leveraged the time/money made to get new domains. You may have some domains really ready to hit their stride at that time as well. I would also say that the market for 200k buyers is a lot less than smaller buys.

    Maybe you could incorporate your business. Sell me 1 share. As a shareholder I want disclosures of the sales of all the company assets. And I am like 62.5% serious;)
     
  15. indiegrind

    indiegrind Established Member

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    I get where MapleDots is coming from.

    Reputation and having your name out opens doors and creates opportunities that someone might not have considered you for if you're under the radar.

    Just like the people you hope to sell your domains to, you have to build your brand.

    If you establish yourself and have a reputation to be a high end salesperson, your inventory can be moved at high end prices.

    I could go on an auction site and publish a very nice domain, and it would probably get a fraction of what it would get if a well known domainer posted it.

    I have no desire to be well known, but at the same time, I want to set myself up to be in a position to be more successful.
     
  16. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Established Member

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    I get it MapleDots. I agree that publicized sales helps us all and I appreciate that.....Although, if you are in a position to make your greatest sale by a large margin, by all means don't let a NDA get in the middle of that. Regardless, best to you!!!
     
  17. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    First of all..... crap that I did not register that first :xf.cry:

    Second.... I think the domin value automatically rises when Rick becomes a player.

    Imagine this scenario....

    A domainer puts boston.com up for auction and max bid goes to 800 bucks in 72 hours, Rick comes in offers 1k and just like magic the bids go into the thousands in minutes. Everyone thinks he knows something they do not. And why is that? Because he has had the sales and he probably does have more knowledge and experience then we do.

    So if a few of my domains go public and it happens to bring up the value of some of my other domains then how could that be a bad thing? I don't want to be a god but I sure would like to be one of the chosen 5000 that get to sit by his feet :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
     
  18. Arca

    Arca Active Member VIP

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    The biggest industry players consistently sell names for high figures because they own tens of thousands and sometimes hundreds of thousands of names. When you own that many names and throw a high price tag on all of them, it's going to work with a certain % of your names in any given month. Mike Mann sell what often seems like sub-par domains for premium prices because he owns 250,000+ domains. Not because he's seen as a "god" in the domain industry.
     
  19. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    From www.domainking.com

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    bought porno.com for $42,000 in 1997 and sold it in 2015 for $8.88 million, cash, which was the fourth-highest reported domain sale in the history of the Internet. It was also the largest single domain transaction that Escrow.com has ever handled.

    In the 18 years that I owned the domain name, it earned approximately $15 million, without ever having adult content! I simply sold the traffic to the highest bidder.

    In 2003, I made among the very first seven-figure domain name sales when I sold men.com for $1.3 million. It was reported around the world and was featured on CNN, as well as all major news media outlets. It was a big deal, and it was the sale that proved that domains would go up faster in value than any other commodity ever known to mankind. That domain cost me $15,000.

    In 2008, I sold Candy.com for $3 million, plus a 12.5% equity stake, to a candy company that had been in business for 35 years. They wanted to be the leader in their industry.

    In 2009, I sold Punchbowl.com to MyPunchbowl.com for cash and stock in the company.

    In 2004, I sold iReport.com to CNN for $750,000.

    In late 2016 I announced another deal for Teem.com, in which there is a cash and an equity component. They Re-Branded from EventBoard.com

    Want to see more of my sales?

    These kind of deals are regularly documented in domain industry journals and media, including this article in The Domains.

    Furthermore, in the 20 years we have been online, more than 650 million visitors have come to our sites via direct type-ins, and that does not include traffic created from our partnerships.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Publishing his previous sales helps him justify prices for current sales.
    I don't see him signing any non disclosure documents
     
  20. Want2learn

    Want2learn Business Member Business Account

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    @MapleDots i definitely think we have some similar views on the subject! By any chance are you familiar with the Myers Briggs Personality sorter?

    Human metrics dot com is where I go to test. They are free. 70 question A or B test.

    Anyways I'd bet 1 month Name Pros subscription you have the letter N which is iNtuition

    Have no idea if you are outgoing or not. Am guessing you are organized. Not sure if you are sensitive or not.

    I'll go ENFJ

    Outgoing-ish
    iNtuitive
    Feeling
    Judging

    Have you decided what you will do?
     
  21. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    @offthehandle and I have been conversing via pm and I opened up to him about a few things I cannot reveal on the forum. I think he understands my reasoning now. He actually has a pretty cool history... we have done business in the past so I was glad to chat with him.
     
  22. frank-germany

    frank-germany Business Member Business Account VIP

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    I am absolutely happy not to reveal
    the exact domains of my xxx.xxx sales
    not even of my xx.xxx sales

    as that would only give ideas to competitors


    -yes some of you, my friends are competitors;) -

    do you want sales
    or become famous

    make up your mind

    use namebio for compareable sales

    high ticket sales are sales where there actually is no alternative for the buyer
    so why bother about comparable sales at all
    if they want the domain its you to buy it from
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  23. frank-germany

    frank-germany Business Member Business Account VIP

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    that is to convince sellers
    not buyers
     
  24. Justin Matmor

    Justin Matmor Active Member VIP

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    If your sold domains are truely premium, the market knows what they are worth, and you will be regarded as a credible broker - regardless if you publish the price or not.

    What's wrong with publishing the names that you sell and add "price undisclosed due to confidentiality". This will imply that the price was high.
     
  25. MapleDots

    MapleDots Established Member

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    Truly premium domains are rare and even some of the bigger players are selling so so domains for big money. They are justifying current sales based upon previous trends. Again if you own 6 similar domains and sold 2 at premium pricing it will be easier to get more for the remaining 4 if you can discuss and publish pricing of the sold inventory.

    Example:

    WarmDomain1.com, WarmDomain4.com are not really great domains but lets say I get 10k each for them. I still own WarmDomain2, 3, 5, 6

    If I can publish sold 10k WarmDomain1 and the potential client goes to the website to see who is lising it he may be more apt to pay for WarmDomain3. Especially if he is a competing website and wants a similar domain.

    A confidentiality clause on WarmDomain1 & 4 would hamper my ability to maximize my selling price on the other 4.

    Again I can talk about this another two weeks and those who see it do and those who don't won't.

    I'll say in closing I will say the entire industry is better off of we disclose pricing. Disclosed pricing used to be the norm but now more and more domains sales go unreported. That is why the resource on namepros and other places is not accurate. A lot of big sales are NOT reported so therefore it appears that domain sale values are going down. Fact is they are to a degree because a lot of the big sales are hidden.
     

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