Bush...the unluckiest president?

[SquireQuack]

I'm thinkiing...George W. Bush could be the unluckiest american president of them all...

100 days into his first term...9/11 happened.
The the War on Iraq.
The economy
then
Hurricane Katrina.

Bush may not be doing a good job...but I'm thinking this could be the best he can do...What do you think?

 

[Lyte]

I believe the NO Mayor said the same thing.

You think Mayor Ray Nagin is happy with the pace? I took the liberty of bolding some parts for you.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/

Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'

Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin

Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 2:59 p.m. EDT (18:59 GMT)

(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:

NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09)

You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.

And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.

WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.

And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.

They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.

WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.

I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.

It's awful down here, man.

WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?

NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.

We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.

You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."

WWL: Who'd you say that to?

NAGIN: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it.

And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and endangered their lives.

And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people.

In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there.

So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.

WWL: Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that just couldn't be done?

NAGIN: They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture. But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you figure out ways to get stuff done.

Then they told me that they went overnight, and they built 17 concrete structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop them.

I flew over that thing yesterday, and it's in the same shape that it was after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.

WWL: If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything without local or state requests, would you request martial law?

NAGIN: I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans. We did that a few days ago.

WWL: Did the governor do that, too?

NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.

But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.

I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.

And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.

Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.

And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.

You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.

And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.

WWL: Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has been done as good as it can possibly be.

NAGIN: Really?

WWL: I know you don't feel that way.

NAGIN: Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?

You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there? What is more important?

And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.

WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.

NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.

Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.

You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.

And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.

WWL: What can we do here?

NAGIN: Keep talking about it.

WWL: We'll do that. What else can we do?

NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.

I don't want to see anybody do anymore goddamn press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.

Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.

WWL: I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.

NAGIN: Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this time.

WWL: We're both pretty speechless here.

NAGIN: Yeah, I don't know what to say. I got to go.

WWL: OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.


Hmm... doesn't sound like he's too happy to me.

 

[movingconcierge]

SO the intel from other countries agreeing that Saddam had WMD never existed?

Isn't that exactly was the 911 commission report stated?

War will do that.

I know war will do that. He brought us into war...unilaterally.

I had no "Fat" when Clinton was in office. I have more cash now than when he was in office.

I'm sorry to hear that. I have less money now than I did then. Period. And that's despite scratching for more. What was your station in life during the Clinton years?

He is moving fast enough for me and many others. I would rather have him in Washington doing what needs to be done than on the ground/water in NO talking. I believe the NO Mayor said the same thing.

Yes, the NO mayor did say that...ON THE THIRD DAY...The fed's just did not plan enough nor did they move quick enough...it's a concensus even from GW himself...so you are in the minority on this one...

Farenheit 9/11 was fiction and a joke. I have yet to see Inside 9/11 so no comments on it.

Again, I highly recommend "Don't Think of an Elephant" as a good read into why some people refuse to accept certain facts that fly in the face of their framework...It explains why some people get f911 and some think it's crap...

 

[CrazyTech]

He's been about as unlucky as one can be in that office.

If you want to go on believing all of these conspiracy stories that you're spoon fed then by all means go right ahead, that's your choice. Enjoy the coolaid. As for me, I won't base my decisions off of dvd's. I like to do my own thinking.

Bush has been plagued by bad timing and bad events. Anyone who thinks he could have forseen 9/11 and been prepared to deal with it 100 days into office needs to get out of politics immediately.

Clinton never really saw spiking gas prices. He was too busy trying to appease everyone. He was also too busy cutting our military in half. Perhaps that other half could have dealt with the Katrina situation while we are in Iraq as well. Hell, 9/11 might not have happened had Clinton's effort to kill bin Laden not taken place or he had actually followed up. Moore and crew seems to forget about this. Clinton missed, pissed him off and there's your 9/11. That cut in the military budget made it that much easier.

Getting back to the gas prices - considering our economy runs on oil (transportation, common goods, and so on) we're married to it whether we like it or not. You want the reason that we're not at 11k or higher with the DOW? There it is, right in front of you. Bush can't wave a magic wand to suddenly rid us of our oil dependency. Clinton couldn't either. The fact is he never had this issue to deal with. He just had to cut the military spending in half and there's your balanced budget. Sacrificed personal security for financial security. Good call, eh?

I still see Iraq as the right move. We had a line of countries (Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria) who went far beyond protesting or opposing us. They've sponsored terrorism (see the 911 Report - a bipartisan committee) and been a part of killing American's as well as many others. Saddan should have gone in the Gulf War but naturally we bent to foreign pressure. This time we fixed our mistake.

Katrina. This is arguably the worst natural disaster in US history (once all is said and done) and could be one of the worst in our part of the world. He certainly could have responded better but hindsight is mostly 20/20. He should have done more but if you'll look at the facts it's only the 2nd time in history that FEMA was activated before the storm hit. This is where the DHS failed. The local government failed. State government failed. There were 800 buses sitting there untouched in NO. That wasn't Bush's fault. Local government could have and should have done something, but they didn't and now thousands may be dead.

 

[.X.]

He's been about as unlucky as one can be in that office.

If you want to go on believing all of these conspiracy stories that you're spoon fed then by all means go right ahead, that's your choice. Enjoy the coolaid. As for me, I won't base my decisions off of dvd's. I like to do my own thinking.

Bush has been plagued by bad timing and bad events. Anyone who thinks he could have forseen 9/11 and been prepared to deal with it 100 days into office needs to get out of politics immediately.

Clinton never really saw spiking gas prices. He was too busy trying to appease everyone. He was also too busy cutting our military in half. Perhaps that other half could have dealt with the Katrina situation while we are in Iraq as well. Hell, 9/11 might not have happened had Clinton's effort to kill bin Laden not taken place or he had actually followed up. Moore and crew seems to forget about this. Clinton missed, pissed him off and there's your 9/11. That cut in the military budget made it that much easier.

Getting back to the gas prices - considering our economy runs on oil (transportation, common goods, and so on) we're married to it whether we like it or not. You want the reason that we're not at 11k or higher with the DOW? There it is, right in front of you. Bush can't wave a magic wand to suddenly rid us of our oil dependency. Clinton couldn't either. The fact is he never had this issue to deal with. He just had to cut the military spending in half and there's your balanced budget. Sacrificed personal security for financial security. Good call, eh?

I still see Iraq as the right move. We had a line of countries (Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria) who went far beyond protesting or opposing us. They've sponsored terrorism (see the 911 Report - a bipartisan committee) and been a part of killing American's as well as many others. Saddan should have gone in the Gulf War but naturally we bent to foreign pressure. This time we fixed our mistake.

Katrina. This is arguably the worst natural disaster in US history (once all is said and done) and could be one of the worst in our part of the world. He certainly could have responded better but hindsight is mostly 20/20. He should have done more but if you'll look at the facts it's only the 2nd time in history that FEMA was activated before the storm hit. This is where the DHS failed. The local government failed. State government failed. There were 800 buses sitting there untouched in NO. That wasn't Bush's fault. Local government could have and should have done something, but they didn't and now thousands may be dead.

Very well said and put in it's proper prospective imo

 

[ZuraX]

Lyte again proves Bush bashers dont read whats written but what they want to read. The NO Mayor said to get off their asses and do something. Whats Bush being in NO doing NOTHING!!!! He should be in Washington DOING something.

You bashers got to remember, the STATES have the power/rights first. Did anyone high up in the state government ask for help before hand? The US Government can not just go in and do as they please. They have to be ASKED by the State Government first.

 

[Lyte]

First, I'm no Bush basher so try hard to lose that lame argument. I'm a HUGE Bush supporter but I'm not so weak or fearful (as some) to think our leaders don't make mistake.

Secondly, you've claimed time and time again that Bush is doing a wonderful job as it comes to New Orleans. You said "He is moving fast enough for me and many others. I would rather have him in Washington doing what needs to be done than on the ground/water in NO talking. I believe the NO Mayor said the same thing." If you had bothered to read the interview I provided you'd see that you are wrong. Here it is again in a short version. These are direct quotes from the Mayor of New Orleans...

"I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice."

"They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed."

So, sorry son but you're wrong... again! Sounds to me like the Mayor of New Orleans wanted Bush's ass on the ground, in New Orleans. AND, Bush didn't bother to come to New Orleans until AFTER the Mayor gave that interview. You just cant admit that you were wrong.

If this isn't proof enough, Bush just did an interview where he admits somethings went right and somethings went wrong in New Orleans. At least he has the courage to admit mistakes were made.

And with regard to asking for help, the Mayor of New Orleans said...

NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.

Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.

Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?

You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there? What is more important?"

Ya know, being able to call our government and leaders on their mistakes is both a right and privilege. The world will not stop spinning if someone says Bush, FEMA, Home Land Security or anyone else didn't handle New Orleans the very best way the could have.

If you can't provide facts you go for the lame "... blah blah... Bush bashers... blah blah... " When did that start? I've seen you do better.

Lyte

 

[ThreeD]

well, what about the presidents during WWI or WWII, the Vietnam war, the cold war? There have been plenty of problems and obstacles for other presidents to overcome, and they did it in a brilliant way. Bush has had to deal with his part of the cake, but he hasn't been as reliable and he hasn't been the strong leader when times got rough.

Unlucky? I don't think so, it just shows who can live up to expectations and who collapses under the pressure!

 

[CrazyTech]

well, what about the presidents during WWI or WWII, the Vietnam war, the cold war? There have been plenty of problems and obstacles for other presidents to overcome, and they did it in a brilliant way.

Ah but reacting in war is a far cry from reacting to natural disasters. I'm not trying to say Bush is perfect here either because he did fail in some ways but at the same time so did all levels of government. The NO mayor and LA governor are just as culpable as Bush. Nagin waited an additional 12 hours to declare an emergency for the city. Why the hell did he not start those 800 odd buses out? Easily 20k more people could have been out of that city. However, no plans were made and they sat there.

The superdome itself was a hail mary and it was very close to being one bad situation had the roof not held. That was obviously a last minute move and it almost went very bad. The point here is not everyone reacts the right way. Let's share the blame and not waste time trying to find one single scapegoat to put it on. This is where the typical Bush-bashing starts.

If you want to bring Vietnam into it then let us because we started that war without ever really proving anyone did anything. I certainly wouldn't include vietnam in the American highlight reel. In WWI Wilson was highly reluctant to go to war and the same goes for WWII. Roosevelt went against his initial declaration and went to war. The point is these guys made mistakes too even in shining moments. We're all human, Bush should have done this or that quicker but at the same time so should have others.

 

[Lyte]

Let's share the blame and not waste time trying to find one single scapegoat to put it on. This is where the typical Bush-bashing starts.

Amen! And let's not blame just for the sake of blaming or defend just for the sake of defending. Let's open our eyes and our minds so we can critique, analysis, review the situation and learn from it!

To be honest, I'm really concerned because if this is the best we can do we're screwed! Who was I listening to yesterday on Fox... I think he was the former Defense Secretary (can't recall his name) who said that the response to a terrorist attack could be very similar to a natural disaster! Evacuations may be needed... supplies may need to be dropped in... emergency services will need to react.... so, this really is the first big test of "the process" since 9/11. We need to be critical and figure out how we can do better!

Lyte

 

[ThreeD]

Let's share the blame...

I think you're right, we can't just blame Bush for everything that went wrong - we're talking about a failure on all levels here. However, as the president -shouldn't Bush be the primary force to get people evacuated after the flooding took place? Shouldn't Bush be the driving force to lead and inspire? Afterall, that's what presidents do in times like this. I heard 24 hours after the levy's collapsed he was still at his ranch in Texas living the sweet life. Doesn't it make you question his priorities?

Bush actually put the blame on the local state government. He claimed they didn't ask for help, nor did they declare a state of emergency. It made me wonder if Bush needed a written letter before he'd realize that people down there were in need of help. It's was just a matter of putting 2 and 2 together, and the lack of preparation definately showed how bad things can get. Lets hope that we can live by the famous quote "It's better to be safe than sorry!" in the future - and lets hope that when the next unfortunate disaster strikes, all levels of the goverments are more awake.

CT, I know you told me to get my facts straight in the other thread but I'm sorry. A state has to request help before any action is taken by the US government, how ridiculous isn't that? How bad do things have to get? Did the US gov think the local authorities were going to figure this disaster out on their own?

As stated in the other thread, that's like saying I didn't help you while you got beat up because you didn't ask me for help. Sometimes you got to reach out a hand even if it's NOT requested or asked for.

 

[octobus]

You bashers got to remember, the STATES have the power/rights first. Did anyone high up in the state government ask for help before hand? The US Government can not just go in and do as they please. They have to be ASKED by the State Government first.

eeh?

This was sent to the President on the 28th of August

Disaster Relief Request

 

[Zeeble]

Ok, after having viewed contless political threads I have come to a conclusion.

I have read the comments of pro-Bush and anti-Bush people. They both say EXACTLY the opposite, and both back it up with proof. Both sides then proceed to comment that the other's proof is fraudulent, and the argument then goes into a vicious circle.

So, the conclusion that I have drawn, is that everybody can say what they like, but NO-ONE, apart from the guys at the TOP, actually know whats going on. Bush COULD have known that 9/11 was going to happen, he COULD have made things about Iraq up so that he had an excuse to invade (Thats what I think, but it is besides the point). At the same time, he MAY not have known about 9/11, he MAY not have made things up about Iraq. But the fact still remains that only GWB and his closest political cronies will ever know.

Im just going to state a few thoughts which are swimming around in mind:

1. It is well known that there was enough intelligence to suggest 9/11 was going to happen. There have also been previous attacks on the world trade centre.

2. US economy. Well, who's managing it?

3. Iraq. Bush invaded Iraq to get rid of WMD's, but where were they?

4. Katrina was upgraded to the most powerful level (5), yet so little had been prepared beforehand, that it even took 2 days before the rescue properly got underway.

Make of those points what you will, they are not lies, they are facts and not presented in any biased way.

 

[Lyte]

There's plenty of blame to go around. I hold Bush responsible for FEMA and their slow response. They are the Federal agency that should have been quicker on the draw. But the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA sat on their hands in their own ways.

I'd like to know why the heck the levies weren't fixed years ago!! Hannity just read a report from FEMA back in 2002 describing what just happened in New Orleans. It's not like this was a surprise! The report talks about people being trapped in their houses, stuck on roofs and more.

Sigh!

Lyte

 

[Zeeble]

I would also like to add, when someone here makes a statement and points to the source. Don't just say that the source is invalid. The geo doesn't make things up, and neither did Farenheit 9/11. Just think, if Michael More and been making those things up, he would have been in BIG trouble....however, as it stands he was allowed to release the film, most likely because it was based on FACTS.

I would like to recommend Farenheit 9/11 to anybody who hasn't watched it, it certainly gives a great insight into Bush and what he stands for.

 

[Lyte]

I would like to recommend Farenheit 9/11 to anybody who hasn't watched it, it certainly gives a great insight into Bush and what he stands for.

I watched F'911 and found it very misleading. It was full of misinformation, misdirection and just plain silliness.

 

[Mark]

I would also like to add, when someone here makes a statement and points to the source. Don't just say that the source is invalid. The geo doesn't make things up, and neither did Farenheit 9/11. Just think, if Michael More and been making those things up, he would have been in BIG trouble....however, as it stands he was allowed to release the film, most likely because it was based on FACTS.
I would like to recommend Farenheit 9/11 to anybody who hasn't watched it, it certainly gives a great insight into Bush and what he stands for.

Sorry Colin ... But that doesn't sound right at all .... I can make a movie in my Yard tonight and release it here in the US tomorrow without asking anyone for permission or telling anyone whether it is Fiction or Non-Fiction. Michael Moore unfortunately has that same right ...

Now getting someone to Air it ... now thats a different story :D

 

[Zeeble]

The point is, that highly contraversial films like that don't get as far as they do, without having a large amount of truth in them.

 

[Mark]

I thought those Alien Autopsies looked real

 

[viciouscircle]

a vicious circle.

hello, how may i be of service?

 

[Lyte]

The point is, that highly contraversial films like that don't get as far as they do, without having a large amount of truth in them.

Or not without a whole lotta agenda. :blink: