UDRP BC30.com UDRP lost by NamePros Member

[DaveX]

Sorry to read that Rob Monster lost a domain and a payday. I learned from this.

https://domaingang.com/domain-law/bc30-com-udrp-what-not-to-do-when-negotiating-a-domain-sale/

Let's discuss this.

I personally have never been involved in a udrp case, but naturally I've contemplated my plan if I ever am.

 

[Rob Monster]

And again, I did predict that WIPO thuggery would be thwarted in 2020:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/happy-new-years-what-is-your-2020-forecast.1170533/

This was the same thread that predicted that Uniregistry would be acquired.

For the folks who shared insights with me privately, I appreciate your insights greatly and look forward to seeing justice prevail here, and to documenting best practices.

For domains registered at Epik, or names using our free Anonymize WHOIS privacy, legal jurisdiction for civil proceedings are a 30 minute drive from my home. For calibration, a pro se filing costs about $400.

WIPO has failed humanity.

Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 

[nothere]

Personally, I'm 99.99% certain that BC30 doesn't ring a bell as a possible trademark. It might be trademarked somewhere for a certain class, but so what? Same word can be used for different areas.

Bad faith is required for you to lose this, since all conditions must be met.

Not a lawyer, and don't know about challenging the trademarks but I do remember that after a while, it becomes extremely hard to do. https://www.ny-trademark-lawyer.com...-rights-after-five-years-of-registration.html

 

[frank-germany]

"Top contributor" would be a generous label. "Top nonsense spouter" is more like it.

@Rob Monster

Glad to see you love everybody
and don't judge anybody

 

[frank-germany]

But 100,000 other domains EVERY DAY? Really?! That seems like a fake number. Why double down on fake statistics by CAPITALIZING every day?.

as I' running f1lter.com
I actually can confirm
that its even more on a daily basis
what is dropping

even much more when you take all extensions into the equation

in the database are
"database size: 1191258 dropping domain"
as of today that 's from a 12 days period only

not including .de and other country level domains

 

[frank-germany]

As for managing the expiry stream, each day I have to decide which domains to let go to Snapnames after the grace period. This is a very efficient process done through a single screen with some analytics.

On some days, the review involves a lot of names with really no time to research them. It is a quick gut decision of whether or not to let a name to go to the wolves or to warehouse them.

to get the discussion out of this thread
here is a poll

after expiry should a registrar give a domain back to the pool?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/af...strar-give-a-domain-back-to-the-pool.1179424/

 

[Rob Monster]

@Rob Monster

Glad to see you love everybody
and don't judge anybody

Depends on whether or not he is wise. He might be.

Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. - Proverbs 9:8

And, believe it or not, I think you are getting wiser by the day.

I don't know Keith but will extend the invitation to connect one on one. That said, I do think his comments were off-topic as it relates to the thread, and his content showed lack of knowledge.

 

[Grilled]

as I' running f1lter.com
I actually can confirm
that its even more on a daily basis
what is dropping

even much more when you take all extensions into the equation

in the database are
"database size: 1191258 dropping domain"
as of today that 's from a 12 days period only

not including .de and other country level domains

I'm talking about total amount of domains that expire, and before dropping, the registrar renews the domain and puts it into their in house portfolio.

I'm NOT talking about the total amount of domains that expire, delete, or change ownership every day.

As previously mentioned, yesterday ExpiredDomains.net had yielded 145,887 total domains deleted in a 24 hour period.

This is what it looked like when it was reported Pheenix was warehousing:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/ph...their-customers-expired-domain-names.1048937/

So, @frank-germany, to confirm, are you saying that every day registrars move/renew 100,000+ expired customer domains into their in house portfolio?

 

[Ategy]

I think with @Keith he maybe wasn't aware of ICANN rules and that you were actually doing nothing against those rules. Also, while optically different, technically almost all the other registrars "take and profit from" their clients' expired domains by trying to sell them at auction. It's a different route, but the ultimate action is the same.

So, @frank-germany, to confirm, are you saying that every day registrars move 100,000+ expired customer domains into their in house portfolio?

@Grilled .. most domains get taken out of the client's control into the registrar's control, and then put on auction with 0% of the profit going to the owner. So the end result is exactly the same thing .. just that then the registrar throws the domain away if it doesn't sell because they judge it to be worthless .. but do NOT dismiss the fact they did originally take it away and tried to sell it for their own profit. Yes .. that happens to 50-60,000 domains a day via GoDaddy, and as they represent about half of the domain market, it isn't a stretch to say that about 100k domains a day get seized from their registrars to be auctioned. It's probably a touch less, in the 80k-90k range as I think all the other auction platforms combined are likely a bit less than GoDaddy (I only follow GoDaddy's expiration stream), but to say it's about 100k is not a big stretch.

If you go on NameCult, at the top of each daily auction listing I post the total number of domains at auction just at GoDaddy, last week there was at least one day where it hit ~64k I'm pretty sure.

 

[frank-germany]

I'm talking about total amount of domains that expire, and before dropping, the registrar renews the domain and puts it into their in house portfolio.

I'm NOT talking about the total amount of domains that expire, delete, or change ownership every day.

As previously mentioned, yesterday ExpiredDomains.net had yielded 145,887 total domains deleted in a 24 hour period.

This is what it looked like when it was reported Pheenix was warehousing:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/ph...their-customers-expired-domain-names.1048937/

So, @frank-germany, to confirm, are you saying that every day registrars move/renew 100,000+ expired customer domains into their in house portfolio?

I am referring to the number of domains that are available for handreg/dropatch
after they had been not renewed

 

[Grilled]

@Grilled .. most domains get taken out of the client's control into the registrar's control, and then put on auction with 0% of the profit going to the owner. So the end result is exactly the same thing ..

Yes. This is something that has been discussed many times on namePros.

Why doesn't the registrar auction house profit share the profits of expired auction domains?

@Mr. Deleted expressed this idea in early 2018 in the Sofia thread.

I would like to see this happen: The auction houses paying a portion of the "expired" domain fee they get to the previous owner. It would make it more fair to the old time owners. It would not necessarily have to be 50%, it could be 5 or 10%, but for a 100K sale, if they never let the name expire, the name technically never dropped. I know they let it lapse, but they should not always lose 100% of their investment after 20-30 years for the email address being wrong or whatever.

To say NameLiquidate is filling this gap, is a bit of stretch. Yes, investors keep 91%. But is this a default for all Epik domains? Why not?

Does epik have an industry best standard for amount of time allowed to grace renew a domain? No.

If you go on NameCult, at the top of each daily auction listing I post the total number of domains at auction just at GoDaddy, last week there was at least one day where it hit ~64k I'm pretty sure.

I'd like to know how many customer owned domains GoDaddy renews and moves into their in house portfolio every day?

Is it anywhere near 64,000 per day?

The point here is, there is a competitive process to acquire domains, and noncompetitive.

If you're saying, buy/create a registrar, entice customers to move their domains to my registrar (or acquire other registrars with other domains under management), then renew/move their expired domains into an in house portfolio, to become more competitive, then I say no thank you.

 

[dirk]

If you're saying, buy/create a registrar, entice customers to move their domains to my registrar (or acquire other registrars with other domains under management), then renew/move their expired domains into an in house portfolio, to become more competitive, then I say no thank you.

Finally someone who gets it! You hit the nail on the head!

The question is not whether it's allowed to bypass the expiration process but whether you should want to hold your domains at a registrar that is using this MO.

If they do, they're in right competition. Not with backorder venues and auction houses but you. The domainer. The enduser.

Let alone all the data and leads they gather while you keep the domain at the registrar. It's peanuts for them to cherry pick valuable domains with that information.

Sure, it's following ICANN rules but think about it... scale this up and... PROFIT! Common sense. Has nothing to do with Epik being either good or bad.

 

[Grilled]

The question is not whether it's allowed to bypass the expiration process but whether you should want to hold your domains at a registrar that is using this MO.

Sure, it's following ICANN rules but think about it... scale this up and... PROFIT! Common sense. Has nothing to do with Epik being either good or bad.

Exactly.

Contrary to what some may think, I love Rob and Epik.

I don't agree with certain policies. And I voice that.

But it has nothing to do with whether or not I think epik is being good or bad.

 

[frank-germany]

Exactly.

Contrary to what some may think, I love Rob and Epik.

I don't agree with certain policies. And I voice that.

But it has nothing to do with whether or not I think epik is being good or bad.

the problem starts when you think in terms of
Good versus Bad

it's the way the leaders of the world want you to think
as that's the way they can manipulate you best

political leader
and religious leaders do so

unfortunately, that is never the case in real life

( A.H. was a vegetarian and loved his dog )

life is damned complex

 

[Grilled]

@Grilled .. most domains get taken out of the client's control into the registrar's control, and then put on auction with 0% of the profit going to the owner. So the end result is exactly the same thing .. just that then the registrar throws the domain away if it doesn't sell because they judge it to be worthless .. but do NOT dismiss the fact they did originally take it away and tried to sell it for their own profit. Yes .. that happens to 50-60,000 domains a day via GoDaddy, and as they represent about half of the domain market, it isn't a stretch to say that about 100k domains a day get seized from their registrars to be auctioned. It's probably a touch less, in the 80k-90k range as I think all the other auction platforms combined are likely a bit less than GoDaddy (I only follow GoDaddy's expiration stream), but to say it's about 100k is not a big stretch.

I'd like to know how many customer owned domains GoDaddy renews and moves into their in house portfolio every day?

Is it anywhere near 64,000 per day?

In May of 2018, @Joe Styler of GoDaddy said:

...We do not bid on domains or warehouse any domains that expire. We acquire our domains by buying portfolios from other domain investors or companies.

 

[NicTraders]

To say NameLiquidate is filling this gap, is a bit of stretch. Yes, investors keep 91%. But is this a default for all Epik domains? Why not?

They have spoken about the possibility of doing this in the future when the platform is better developed. As a user I can tell you it's not there yet. But even the chance they will do this in the future is pretty amazing - I can't imagine another registrar on the planet being willing to do it.

 

[Rob Monster]

We filed on time.

Case number is 2:20-CV-357-RSL

Judge Robert Lasnik presiding in the United States District Court for the Western District of Washington

Many thanks to @patents and @David Michaels for their assistance. Class acts. Blessings to both of them.

 

[David Michaels]

Judge Robert Lasnik is an experienced judge with 43 trademark cases in the past decade. Six are currently pending, including the BC30 .com case.

Judge Lasnik has presided over three other ACPA cases:

1. A default judgment regarding BungeChicago .com - cybersquatting
2. A settlement regarding Happy Halloween's screams .com hijacking, and
3. A settlement regarding Domain Market's LakesGas .com hijacking.

No documents were filed regarding the settlement amounts for the hijacking cases.

Judge Lasnik is has awarded a full range of attorney's fees and huge amounts of damages in non-trademark cases.

Good luck!

 

[DNabc]

I was not aware of this until today, thanks to Andrew Allemann. Good luck Rob, not just knowing I'm rooting for you but because you are on the right side

 

[marijuanadomain]

It is his rights to fight to protect his property...let no one "steals" your property.
Way to go!!! Go get them!!

 

[Cannuck]

I have also just tuned into this very informative thread. Educating oneself in trademark law and investment in intellectual property is a key component in the development as a domainer.

Admittedly, I have been naive, having sold several names for considerably less than their true market value. The experience you share is golden for those who are serious about the industry. I will be following this thread with keen interest in order to stay abreast of your progress moving forward. Thank you for posting, good luck in your challenge.