NameSilo

BackOrderZone.com?

Located in Drop Catchers and Expired Domain Services started by stub, Mar 1, 2012.

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  1. BackorderZone

    BackorderZone Member BackorderZone

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    It's a bit hard to argue this, since you gave no evidence, just accusations due to a bad experience you had with a completely different company. We are not intrust, and as other members in this thread are claiming, they have successfully backordered with us and participated in auctions. Are they shills as well?

    We are, as far as we know, one of the top 5 backorder clubs in existence, by domains caught daily. You accuse us of using shill bidders to escalate prices, again with absolutely no evidence. But the fact is, our prices tend to be 10 times cheaper or more than namejet similar auctions. We display the username of our bidders in all private auctions, and we have much fewer users than the other major backorder platforms, so many of our bidders actually know eachother personally, or have been bidding against the same people for months.

    Sorry, but honestly, we could not pull off "shill bidders" without getting caught and trashed throughout the internet by major domainers that use us. Are you really telling me that when we capture 50+ bidder namejet domains, and they sell for around $500.00-1000.00 USD on backorderzone (This happens all the time, go ahead and backorder some namejet popular domains with us, it won't cost you anything to view the auction that takes place.), that we are using shills to gain an extra, what $100 dollars? And to get that $100 we would chance 40+ registrar accreditations that cost us tens of thousands to create and maintain? :lol:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. PeppyNames

    PeppyNames Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    well just searched on google for backorderzone.com and intrust domains and here are the results

    http://www.DNF/f284/backorderzone-com-thread-477317.html
    Accuses backorderzone of adding new users to the auction after catching names and that too by the trusted users on the forum and not newbies.

    http://buywebsites.biz/249/dropcatching-an-expiring-domain-at-the-right-time/
    This page also exposes you of being the same scammer as intrust domains.

    In the end I would like to conclude that there is no smoke without fire.

    Think on your sins.
     
  3. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Indeed, bellnames.com is associated with at least two dozen shell registrars. It's funny that there has been some much crap from bellnames/namebind/etc in the form of mass spamming, that has been going on for years - yet backorderzone is claiming they have nothing to do with it and will even terminate offenders.

    Perhaps this thread has finally achieved its purpose and is now so well positioned in google that it's beginning to hurt the business of BZ.

    There must be a reason why so much crap is originating from that platform. Maybe it's because it stinks and attract flies.
     
  4. loredan

    loredan Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Give the guy a break for Christ sake! You guys are worse than my aunt lol ! :)

    He might be lying but who knows, he might tell the truth. Innocent until proven guilty, huh? :) So far I've seen a couple of guys in this thread who said they did smooth business with BZ, I haven't heard of anyone who has been scammed or had money/domains stolen by these guys (yet).

    At least the guy spent time to register here and post in this thread, oh boy thats something! Don't think he would've been bothered to do it if he was a scammer?
     
  5. PeppyNames

    PeppyNames Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Read the links I posted in the earlier post. Intrust Domains are known cyber criminals who have stolen domains names with Kenn Palm at its helm. Read about Kenn Palm of Intrust Domains then you will understand the gravity of the situation.

    Now if these are the same guys then here it is how they operate with a front as BackorderZone.com

    1) There is a single or couple backorder on a name. These people have no interest and will sell it to the winner.

    2) There is a interest on a name from multiple people they will make there people the winners by posting the high amount as bid If the threshold amount is reached according to their internal evaluations then will sell it and they will keep it if nobody is willing to pay that much.

    3) For the names they have kept they will sell it later at other sites.

    So basically you are competing with the backorder company on the names you have backordered and bidded and you are giving a market evaluation of the minimum price it should sell for.

    I am the person who they cheated on favorites.net you can still see the registrar on that name by checking their whois information.

    Here is the complaint I made on one of the forum

    http://www.domainstate/industry-news-6/beware-of-intrustdomains-108051.html

    I also made a complaint at that time to BBB.

    I am 100% sure these cybercriminals use shill bidders as they have complete internal knowledge of their system which their innocent customers don't have. It is an opaque system where they can create a new shill bidder for every auction which can't be recognized by an innocent user bidding on their system.

    Also in the past they have used tactics of changing their company names using fake CEOS etc, etc of hiding under some skin.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  6. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    As described earlier in this thread, the company behind backorderzone seems to be: MPIsoft.

    Ukrainian connections ? Interesting. I would have thought Poghosian was an Armenian name or something. Anyway.

    Now it's interesting that intrust/etc also have a Ukrainian connection (+380 is the telephone country code for Ukraine)
    https://www.namepros.com/748546-backorderzone-com-2.html#post4398617

    intrust has operated under many names like DOMAINNAMESINTERNATIONAL.NET, which like others is registered at bellnames.com.
    So many bad domains point to bellnames.com that it's no longer called a coincidence but a pattern.

    Never mind the location (Colorado) and other similarities.

    If you look at the whois history of backorderzone.com (http://who.is/domain-history/backorderzone.com) you'll see it was previously owned by namebind, you certainly remember that outfit that was spamming like crazy last year just like intrust (background info: http://www.domainnamenews.com/legal-issues/domain-spammers-fillup-christmas-inboxes/9976)
    The spam E-mails always feature the same characteristics: bogus personal names, random DBA names, a constant rotation of domain names used for spamming
    The Web is littered with various blog pages about BZ, that show a clear connection with namebind:
    http://backorderzone.blogspot.com/2011/09/new-domain-names-for-sale-at.html
    http://www.stumbleupon.com/content/1Tl2yc/comments

    If the connection between intrust and backorderzone is not clear to you:
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ee.com+&cd=1&hl=is&ct=clnk&gl=is&client=opera
    You can see that in the past intrust has used the same address: 6140 Tutt Blvd, #160, Colorado Springs, CO 80923. This address was returned in whois records before the 'rebranding'. Another coincidence.
    Even assuming BZ is not intrust, we know they are namebind which is equally bad.

    I could go on and connect more dots but at this point I think it is clear to everyone that backorderzone has a horrible background and is still a shady outfit.

    I am sure that BZ, like intrust/namebind and siblings, will continue to come and go and reincarnate under different names and have fun in this business.
     
  7. BackorderZone

    BackorderZone Member BackorderZone

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    Let me go ahead and address this step by step, even though you are completely ignoring replies, and continuing on with your conspiracy theories against us.

    I still don't understand why you are posting in OUR thread about it. We are not intrustdomains, we are not owned by Kenn Palm in any way, shape, or form. If this person is a backorder customer with us, then he is likely a backorder customer with namejet, godaddy, snap and every other backorder platform out there. So I guess you are also ready to accuse all of those services on being fronts for him? Your evidence is forum posts, these forums, and your OWN forum posts.

    If there is a single backorder on a name, we sell it to the winner. I'm not sure what you are accusing us of here. Are you saying that if its only a single or couple of bidders, we take the domain and give it to someone else? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds and how easy it would be for us to get caught?

    What? Again, how did you come to this conclusion? Come on, give us some examples of domains which we have stolen from auction. Let's see some evidence here please. If you can find a single domain that we have ever taken from an auction, I will resign my position from this company the next day. Because this would mean a conspiracy so deep, that me, the person who runs daily operations, did not know about it. I guess all of our domainers are just blind as well! (Unless you are suggesting that we capture hundreds of domains a day for ourselves only. But let's not even speculate on what you are suggesting.)

    So once again, you have a problem with intrust domains, and you are posting it to our thread.

    So here we go, sorry to burst your bubble...

    Domain Name: FAVORITES.NET
    Registrar: YOURJUNGLE, INC.
    Whois Server: whois.yourjungle.com
    Referral URL: http://secure.bellnames.com
    Name Server: NS1.DNINSES.NET
    Name Server: NS2.DNINSES.NET
    Status: clientDeleteProhibited
    Status: clientTransferProhibited
    Status: clientUpdateProhibited
    Updated Date: 27-sep-2011
    Creation Date: 21-jul-2010
    Expiration Date: 27-jan-2017

    See that creation date?

    Domain Name: BACKORDERZONE.COM
    Registrar: 1 MORE NAME, LLC
    Whois Server: whois.yourjungle.com
    Referral URL: http://secure.bellnames.com
    Name Server: NS1.BACKORDERZONE.COM
    Name Server: NS2.BACKORDERZONE.COM
    Status: ok
    Updated Date: 26-mar-2013
    Creation Date: 26-aug-2011
    Expiration Date: 26-aug-2018

    Well look at that... backorderzone didn't EXIST when you stated that you were scammed on this domain. YourJungle, Inc. is our registrar. We purchase dozens of registrars and consolidate our domains to only a few for management purposes. This is standard throughout the industry. So, what you have found out is that a domain owned by a company you do not like, is under one of our 35+ purchased registrars which we purchased from a company that captured this domain in 2010.

    I am not sure you understand what 100% sure means. However, I am 100% sure you have not provided any real evidence to link us to this company or proven any of the accusations you have made. Apparently we are evil genius masterminds, because for two years we have gotten away with stealing tens of thousands of domains, without so much as a complaint aside from a thread on a web forum. :bingo:

    As I have already mentioned, any of you can sign up for our site and participate in an auction at no cost. Just bid on any high namejet domain and see for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  8. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    We have a new player in town: goname.com, a Tennessee company.

    First of all, it's interesting that intrustdomainsstore.com, a domain name still owned by kenn palm (intrust) is redirecting to goname.

    They even own an IP address block: 128.136.33.64 - 128.136.33.127
    http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-128-136-33-64-1/pft

    What's interesting with this IP range ?
    NS1.HOSTJAR.COM & NS2.HOSTJAR.COM both have address 128.136.33.69
    BTW NS1.INTRUSTDOMAINS.NET & NS2.INTRUSTDOMAINS.NET also resolve to the exact same IP address
    HOSTJAR.COM is owned by intrust/domainnamesinternational
    I told you that intrust are constantly morphing into new entities

    Now going back to page 2 of this thread
    https://www.namepros.com/748546-backorderzone-com-2.html#post4398617
    A Tennessee connection was already mentioned.

    And we have Denis Markov again (must be Ukrainian), cofounder of intrust
    Admin Contact: Denis Markov
    Phone Number: +380503246354
    Email: [email protected]
    He owns MARKOV.COM, and the whois points to intrust again.

    Let's go back to Mr Poghosian
    He is the point of contact for the IP range at singlehop: 173.236.119.96/28
    Within this range there is a webserver at 173.236.119.105:
    http://173.236.119.105/auth/login

    Intrustdomains control panel. You know, it's the entity they have nothing to do with.
    Another coincidence, but it's not like I made this up.

    You see, there is a lot of names, entities and more than one State involved, but we keep going round in circles to the usual suspects.

    Also, an interesting read on the recently dropped (and caught) cnm.com domain: http://www.domainpicks.com/12041/an-epik-backorder-on-an-epic-domain/
    In the background there is epik more or less knowingly and willingly involved with dubious business practices.

    :wave:
     
  9. PeppyNames

    PeppyNames Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    In the end Backorderzone.com will deny all their involvement with IntrustDomains or MPIsoft because if they will accept then they will lose all the somewhat reputation they have earned by faking their identity.

    In the end what kind of evidence do you want us to give. Your company full of scammers think that domainers are fools. You tend to forget that we domainers are one of the most internet savvy people on the planet and will bring out the truth and all the evidence from the net.

    Keep on changing your identity and we will make sure people know what your real identity is. By putting on some dummy CEO & company won't help you hide.
     
  10. BackorderZone

    BackorderZone Member BackorderZone

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    First, I appreciate that you aren't just blindly throwing out accusations about our service! Thank you for that.

    That's not what I said or meant to convey. I said we are not owned by, have never been owned by that company. We have entirely different staffing and ownership. This does not mean they are not customers of ours, I am sure they are a customer of every major backorder service in existence. As far as the login page goes, we used to offer turn key landing pages for dozens of companies where they can manage domains that are caught with us. (Domainers with large portfolios, registrars we purchased with existing portfolios, etc.) Just like any other registrar, we try very hard to get domainers to keep their large domain portfolios with us and most of them will not want to use our bellnames platform. In the past year we switched over to a new direct API that did not require us to offer the turnkey service and instead integrates directly with our registrars.

    So again, just because we register domains for a company, does not mean we are that company, even if they have a bad reputation. If the point of this thread is to prove we do business with them, that's fine, people can judge us on that for themselves. But I want to clear up the fact that we are not owned by them, we are not promoted by them, and we are not influenced by them on any policy we have. BackorderZone has have never committed any kind of fraud against our users. In fact, we believe our policies are much more friendly to domainers than most platforms out there. If we were trying to hide this, we would have let this thread die. We would not bring it back to life.

    As for namebind, they were a company which we worked with early on and do regret having done so. They had the same account on backorderzone that any other customer had, and never had any type of priority over other users. In fact, we strictly disallowed them to participate in auctions because of our deal. (See all the low priced domains they offered on that blogspot page?) The "deal" we had worked out with them is that they would promote our new service with their marketing team, in exchange for a low rate on backorders. This included answering questions about us, managing our social media, and we allowed them to use our brand name in promoting us.

    We didn't like the type of promoting they were doing, and the types of clients we were gaining from it (lots of fraud), and so the deal was ended. Since then we have had no affiliation with namebind outside of backorder services, and even those services ceased some time ago. Hence the reason why none of these pages were updated, even though we still use our brand name. Again, its something we regret, but it's also something that has absolutely no effect on our backorder services or policies, which is what this thread is all about.

    To summarize (TL;DR), yes, we once had close relations with namebind, and we ended those relations with them. We regret the decision to allow them to use our brand, but as you can see, we are still using it and have not up and changed. We probably wouldn't be here if we had plans to do so. We have had absolutely no relation with the other companies mentioned in this thread, aside from the capture of domains through our registrars and backorder service.
     
  11. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    :talk:

    watching....

    ---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------

    :talk:

    not saying he is



    but scammers do post on forums, that's how they get suckers.


    watch out for a "too good to be true deal"


    imo...
     
  12. BackorderZone

    BackorderZone Member BackorderZone

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    Absolutely, but we probably would have also created a new thread to promote our business, and given out discounts/promos, rather than resurrecting this one that already makes us look terrible.

    Now, we would hardly expect to find suckers here. We have seen other threads where the community has torn apart people trying to scam or hurt the domainer name. It's the primary reason we wanted to clear these things up. If we want promotion, we'll pay for an ad!
     
  13. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    :talk:



    what looks dark now could lighten up in the future


    and general "word of mouth" discussions, sometimes, can be best form of advertising



    depends on which way you take this.


    imo....
     
  14. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The intrustdomains control panel @ 173.236.119.105 is down. Who pulled the plug ?
    You have nothing to hide right ?
     
  15. BackorderZone

    BackorderZone Member BackorderZone

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    Our CTO took it down. What exactly are we hiding? I already admitted in my own reply to you, that we provided intrust with a domain control panel to manage their domains they won with us. Up or down, it proves nothing except that they were a customer of our service. If you'd like, I will even get a screenshot of the exact login page for you as soon as I get back in the office tomorrow. As I said, it was an outdated system that isn't used anymore. I had no idea it was even accessible, so it was disabled as soon as our CTO found out to prevent unauthorized access. Now that the link is public, we don't need people trying to login and access a system which has been out of use for over a year. We already had multiple login attempts after it was posted. Not everything is a conspiracy!
     
  16. PeppyNames

    PeppyNames Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    And your CTO has full power to remove the Intrust Domains page without asking your customer Intrust Domains because you are team is yourself Intrust Domains.

    At one point of time Intrust Domains are just normal customers which they will be for NJ/SN but NJ/SN don't need to pull off any pages because they are honest backorder company.

    And in the last how come your CTO and your team know that system has not been in a use for past one year because your team is Intrust Domains.

    Too many login attempts is not your problem but your customer Instrust Domains problem but you appear to be worried about unauthorized access rather than your customer.

    Why can't I get information about any other customer of yours other than Intrust?

    Truth prevails. No matter how hard you try.
     
  17. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Okay, to sum up and keep it simple for everyone, here are the facts.

    You have acknowledged a close relationship with namebind in the past, but you say it was a bad partner and you ditched them and this is now history.
    I have shown the archived whois for backorderzone.com as of 09 Sept 2011. At that time the domain name backorderzone.com was owned by namebind, so is appears that namebind actually did own backorderzone.
    A cache of backorderzone.com as of October 2011: http://web.archive.org/web/20120502110458/https://www.backorderzone.com/
    The website was the same as it is today. So if I were to judge by the whois my impression is that namebind was more than a partner, it was the entity that was pulling the strings at the time. Or I am still missing something.
    I am personally surprised that you decided to retain a brand that has been tarnished by the actions of namebind, with whom you say you cut ties.

    As for Intrust domains, we are being told they are/were just a client, but they were important enough to have a turneykey management interface of their own with logo, hosted at BZ. Until yesterday there was a dedicated server and IP address that presumably was just for their own use. I must assume that there is no shortage of IP addresses or computers at your organization since you had forgotten about it, and did not bother to reclaim resources that allegedly haven't been used for a quite a while.
    For the curious, this is a screenshot of the management interface that is no more:
    [​IMG]

    Of course, every company may have to deal with bad clients at some point, but when those clients use your infrastructure to spam or defraud it becomes your problem too. Personally I would kick them out rather than sink with them or let them destroy my reputation. But money talks in this world, in this industry even more.
    Just looking at the general patterns, two major spammers have come to you for their domain needs, and bellnames is always in the spotlight.
    I have always wondered why BZ doesn't provide contact details on their website, just a phone number. Also, the phone number on MPI's website changed from a 719 area code to a toll-free number shortly after the connection was exposed in this thread. I believe somebody has been paying attention to this thread.
    What I think is this: BZ would rather keep a low profile, and not show an obvious link with their owners (MPI). Or the other way round.
    But now this is an open secret and they have no other choice than to acknowledge it.

    Now on to MPI (http://www.mpisoft.com/): earlier in this thread a poster pointed out at the use of unlicensed stock images. Their website is still cheesy today, for example if you look at this page: http://mpisoft.com/methodology.php?t=confidentiality you can see it's a copy-paste from another website ("The India Development Center is fully protected externally and internally with secure and restricted access to all sensitive resources. Every employee is provided with an Identification card.").
    While I wouldn't call it a serious crime, it doesn't give the impression of a trustworthy and professional company. It's just another red flag among so many. BZ/MPI doesn't pass the smell test for me.

    In the end, it's all coincidences, errors of the past, bad clients etc abusing the good faith of honest service providers, like the CNM.com fiasco that was another unfortunate but selective error by intrust domains & epik.
    As you can see a leopard cannot change its spots, and intrust domains will always stab you in the back when the stakes are high enough.
    And Rob Monster/Epik is washing his hands of it, and turns a blind eye on what's happening at his registrar.
    There is a cluster of shady entities out there, that use each other as an umbrella to confuse outsiders and skirt responsibility for their actions. Seriously, I think icann should police the registrars a little more. It is clear that some registrars are rogue and exist for the sole purpose of spamming, defrauding people, or selling fake pharma etc. Based on the present and the past, I am not convinced that BZ/MPI are qualified or mature enough to run a registrar let alone dozens of them. At the very least they are lacking the necessary ethics and sense of responsibility.

    Everybody can make up his/her own mind, time will tell.
     
  18. Nitindomains

    Nitindomains "Veritas Liberabit Vos" VIP

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    Great thread, and great deal of insight.

    Came across Goname.com, on an auction, and thus stumbled onto this thread.
     
  19. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Goname = intrust domains
     
  20. Zombies

    Zombies Established Member

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    so what is the verdict in 2015?

    Good or bad guys?
     
  21. Nitindomains

    Nitindomains "Veritas Liberabit Vos" VIP

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    Looking for the same answer.
     
  22. tonecas

    tonecas Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    one of the things i don't understand is why these guys wont post previous auctions bidding history. or even during a running auction why can't we see ALL bids that have taken place. this is so since the appearance of BZ so they have had all the time to correct this. but again, it is better to look fishy because who cares?
     
  23. Sheogorath

    Sheogorath Top Member VIP

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    I thought to check them out a month ago and then I remembered the existence of this thread.
    I have decided that it will be best to stay clear of them.
    It would be great if more members will shed some light on this issue with updated information.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  24. BackorderZone

    BackorderZone Member BackorderZone

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    Last week our team attended NamesCon and we had a great time, we talked to many domainers who personally use us, or have since decided to give us a try. Some loved us, some were wary. We don't advertise much, we rely on word of mouth. So when domains like TRAITS.COM go for under 4000 dollars in auction it would seem to be a poor business decision to let others know we exist.

    It's almost ironic in a way, that we are one of the few backorder companies with no employees who own domains to sell, and we are the one under the most scrutiny for it. I guess sometimes it's better to have conflicts of interest and be cavalier about them, rather than having no conflicts of interest at all. We can't fall back on domain sales when we do a poor job, because we don't own a domain portfolio. Backorders, domain management and web services (Email, Hosting, SSL) are our only game.

    As I offered in prior posts, just send me a PM or email me directly and I will be happy to give you free credits so that you can make your own judgement call. In fact, anyone that pms or emails me today (Monday, Jan 19th) will get 5 free credits, which we were offering at NamesCon last week.

    Tonecas, you're right about that complaint. If we are guilty of anything, it's that our auction platform is outdated and in major need of a redesign. Regarding live bid history, this is more an issue with our auction platform. We agree that full bid history is preferable. We also want to make it more clear when proxy bids are made, and make the auctions generally more pleasant to view and follow up with. We do have plans for all of this, but I will check with our development team to see if its possible to expand the live history sooner than later.

    Regarding post auction-history, the thought behind this was that only those in the auction could see the bid history. This way, if they tried to sell the domain, others could not come to our site to see the value which they paid and undermine the sale. This was important to us because of how low some of the high value domains we capture go for. We found this to be a benefit to domainers. If we're wrong, then please let us know and we'll reconsider on the redesign. If you have any other suggestions or opinions, please PM them to me, we are ALWAYS open to suggestions, even if we can't implement them immediately.

    Again, I can't force anyone to trust us or even give us a try. But I would hope that you will all make that judgement call for yourselves. In the meantime, we continue to pick up great domains for our clients, at a fraction of the cost of the big guys. Excuse me now, I caught the Flu on the way back from Vegas and it's time to get back to rest. ;)
     
  25. tonecas

    tonecas Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @BackorderZone, granted on your stance for other companies that work on the drop that have also issues. Personally, i don't think that ANY backorder company is working clear and without any conflict of interests. It is an inherently shaddy business.

    DropCatch, the pubic drop service of the Reberry brothers catch domains from client backorders and then place them in public auction where anyone can bid.

    SnapNames and Namejet, well, let me just say that they collect domains from their managing registrar companies that sell domains that they should not have any access in the first place, unless extenuating circumstances. Not to mention the infamous shill bidding that has occurred a few years back at Snapnames.

    granted this, the problem with your service is that all dots lead the shady Intrust to your business. It is very hard for anyone to believe in your justifications. I can believe that you are clean and instead you have had very poor reasoning and very poor marketing notions and decisions. You f** up big time. It is now hard to believe in your story. In any case I can give you the benefit of doubt.

    regarding the bid history, that doesn't make any sense. bidders that were placed in the *private auction* should have access to the bid history. the idea of protecting the winning bidder is nonsense. I can record the winning bid because you send it by email. I can monitor the auction until the end and store the winning bid and bidder. if you give access to the bidding history for past auctions to participating bidders you are only making your service more transparent. simple has that. sure you will have to spend some more database space and alter one or two web pages but I think in 2 years of business you could have done this by now.
     

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