NameSilo

Awkward Relations

Labeled as advice in General Domain Discussion started by clickmystuff, May 21, 2018.

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  1. clickmystuff

    clickmystuff ctr.mobi is at auction now

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    So I moved into a new city. Surprise, Arizona. The first thing I did was search out the high traffic areas and then immediately after that I began my leads and prospects process. I stumbled across a little skate(boards) shop named Sk8 Haus LLC. Immediately I checked up on the domain and both sk8.haus and sk8haus.com were available and I quickly regged them both.

    I then scheduled an appointment with the owner.

    I think it's important to note that my objective isn't just selling the shop the domain names. I would like to develop a mobile and a desktop site as well for the company and get a contract for their SEO/Digital Marketing needs.

    So I came with 3 custom created reports and an abridged version of the Keyword Research I had performed in relation to the niche.

    Long story short of it, the meet went fairly well, until some Awkward, Fragile Looking skater kid who said he's a "digital marketer" and "SEO" as well, jumped in and started casting doubt on my mini-presentation and my motives. On top of that, his wife, who apparently handles the companies finances to some degree, started piping in as well.

    Mind you the "digital marketer" who was talking sh it had no idea what he was talking about, but he did his job as a gatekeeper I guess.

    The man's wife however, had legitimate questions and I had answers for those questions. I can't knock her for that but she obviously has some number of a budget the business tries to keep in mind. I don't know what that number is, and I believe her concerns could become a deal breaker if she leverages her husband agianst my propostions.

    My question is this Namepros. And I know many of you have the experience and the correct mental resolve to be a lifeline for me in this situation so I trust whatever advice you may have.

    What do I do next to leverage the decision maker enough to close the deal? Despite the very close relatives taking an awkward stance against my ambitious proposals. I appreciate any help, and corrective criticisms you care to share NP.
     
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  2. jstenn13

    jstenn13 UltraDomains.com

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    Well, because after seeing the shop’s name you registered those domain names you’re 100% cybersquatting. Sorry to break it to you but that’s a big no-no. If I were you I’d just go ahead and give the domains to the shop owner and move on.
     
  3. golan

    golan Leo.Domains Gold Account VIP

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    Amazing story. You should ask such questions at some blackhat forums, where people earn money by stealing and scamming others.
     
  4. Rory Ivey

    Rory Ivey Upgraded Member Blue Account VIP

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    You stole their business name though. I would give it to them for free or offer it to them for cheap/affordable, since you purchase the name. And maybe see if they still want to work with you to do web development and seo. But if this post is evidence against you.
     
  5. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I would never go against the advice of my wife. It always makes my life hell for weeks.
     
  6. NameSplice

    NameSplice Established Member

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    Yeah, just give them the name. Try a different strategy at this domaining thing
    besides trying to reap benefits from established businesses by registering their names.
    Kinda think that is considered squatting.
    Which inturn makes domainers look bad.
     
  7. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2010 - 2018 VIP

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    My advice....

    Stick to domains and let them run their business, seo etc.

    Traditionally when I look at businesses I look at what web address they are using and if they are using a crappy one I will show them an advantage of a better one for a fair price.

    Since I am in Canada..... it goes like this....

    BurgsBarAndGrill.com - they have a pretty decent name but for a Canadian business a bit long

    Burgs.ca - available for 5k and would look great on top of a Menu

    So my object is not to steal their name but to present them with a better option to theirs. In this case Burgs was a drop from a business that had gone under and I snapped it up. Now my job is to find a match and sell it.

    PS. burgs.ca is my training domain and I use it as an example in my presentations.

    Now if I registered their business name BurgsBarGrill.com and tried to sell it to them it could be considered as cybersquatting and you should refrain from registering someones complete business name if it is not a generic term.

    sk8haus.com can only have one meaning and you will lose in a udrp if it is presented to you, especially because you have contacted the owner of the business and they can show it was the only purpose in registering the domain.
     
  8. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You know what they say: you can take a donkey to water but you can't force him to drink.
    End users either get it or they don't. Trying to 'educate' them is a waste of time.

    Maybe it's one small outlet that has some online presence on FB and doesn't want a fully-fledged website.
    You shouldn't be spending so much time and energy on a small venture like that.

    Registering the domain names is too much to make a point, normal people would feel that you are strong-arming them and express reluctance.
    So at the end of the meeting, they didn't even ask that you hand over the domain names to them ? Says a lot.
    Sorry, but you should just move on. It's obvious they are not a worthy target.
     
  9. Constantin S

    Constantin S BRANDUE.COM VIP

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    That's clear cybersquatting, just handle the domains to rightful owner otherwise you'd might just get in legal trouble and regret your days.
    I'd also revise my strategy when register a domain, stop registering domains for a few months and read more about what works and what not here on NP, you'll save a lot of $$$.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  10. clickmystuff

    clickmystuff ctr.mobi is at auction now

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    Wait, what? I am not squatting in any way shape or form. I am not trying to profit from the domains, I'm selling them for the price I regged them. Did you read anything I wrote? Cybersquatting?
     
  11. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I just read your first post again. Nowhere in that post did you say what you were going to charge for the domains, or what you were going to charge for all your additional services. In fact you emphasis on "closing the deal" certainly smacks at least of you planning to profit from this deal is Cybersquatting. Give them the domain names for free, and then negotiate for your other services, would be fine. But saying you have to buy my services to get the domains is Cybersquatting.
     
  12. Randolph

    Randolph Reverse Engineer Blue Account

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    They feel violated. Wouldn't you?

    The husband is obviously territorial, as well. Easy way to handle this.

    • Gift the domains to them as a friendly gesture. Paying forward in business is the #1 way to get ahead.
    • Build a relationship with the husband. You do the same thing, so you have a lot to talk about.
    • Offer services that fill his gaps.
    • Ask for a referral. You're new and I'm sure he's busy with his skate shop.
     
  13. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    But you have 0 rights to the name, what if they don't go UDRP and go ACPA find a lawyer that sues you looking for $100,000 in damages. You have no rights to their name, people can still come after you even if you want to sell for reg fee, I have known of cases involving celebrities where their people threatened legal action and the domainer wanted to give the name for free, they were a fan.

    It's best to stay away from names where you knowingly have info on who the rightful owner should be.
     
  14. BrandMart

    BrandMart DomainBugle.com VIP

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    Give them the domain for free. Maybe they'll gift you a skateboard and buy some beer too.
     
  15. golan

    golan Leo.Domains Gold Account VIP

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    Or maybe you even build a nice friendship with his wife...
     
  16. hxp

    hxp SuperDuperUltraRarePremiumHolographic Member VIP

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    I do feel that you've dabbled in Cyber Squatting (registering a known brand/trademark with intent to sell - even if it's not for a profit).

    But, putting that aside...

    I think, if you're confident in your skills, you should offer them a free trial or a payment for results type of deal. Have you shown them your portfolio?

    Think about it. They're a little skate shop in Arizona, and you're trying to tell them that you're the digital god of gods that's going to make all of their internet marketing dreams come true!!!

    You'll have to do something to earn their trust first.
     
  17. doc24

    doc24 A Wish Sandwich Gold Account

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    Seriously!
    If you came to my business with this I would have thrown you out. Why ? Because those 2 domain names. The reason they probably were not registered is they suck any way.. you dont take advantage of people that dont even register their own domain name. Period, especially in this case
     
  18. clickmystuff

    clickmystuff ctr.mobi is at auction now

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    1) I agree completely you don't take advantage of: Not just people that don't register their own name, but people in general.

    Why?
    It's not a good business.
    2) I never had any intention of squatting or profiting off of the domains themselves. In fact, I see this as a service. The company is clearly behind the times and doesn't realize the potential the digital market holds for: Not only his company, but for his family.


    So What is Good Business?

    Washing away another person's ignorance
     
  19. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Give them the domains and then let them decide whether they want your services, without a gun to their head. Would be my advice. You might even get a better long-term relationship with both the husband and the wife. To boot.
     
  20. clickmystuff

    clickmystuff ctr.mobi is at auction now

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    This is a joke right... First of all, you only violate cybersquatting laws in the U.S. if you buy the domain of a registered trademark and hold the name with ill intent in order to profit.

    Having a state licensed LLC or Corporation is not the same as having a Federally Registered Trademark.

    In fact, if a company in my very state owns a licensed business called "example name corp." and I registered the domain in exact match spelling, I could still operate a sole proprietorship business offering the exact same services/products as "example name corp" and still not be violating the Federal Law on Cybersquatting because there is no Trademark. I could not open a LLC or Corporation in the same name but I could legally operate my online business in the same state even with the same name if "example name corp" doesn't own the registered federal trademark by the same name.

    In that case, if the company was upset they could approach me and say "that's our name give it to us." If I then said "Only if you pay me $2,much,money for the domain" then that could be considered ill intent in order to gain in the eyes of WIPO. And then you could file for arbitration with WIPO. If I refused to hand over the domain and continued to squat after you did that, WIPO could then seize the name from me, and you may be able to sue for damages then, but where?

    • Would that be a federal case? Not if there was no federal trademark.
    • How about at the state level? Nope, I'm just a sole pro.
    • Maybe civil court, which has a maximum suit average of appox. $10k per state. With the highest maximum civil suit being in State of Tennessee at $25k.
    • But $100k...not even close.
    Now if you all still feel like being uninformed, self-righteous, screen preachers by all means continue...but don't act like you know about something when you don't.

    And Like I've said repeatedly, I have no ill intent to profit from these domain names. In fact, I approached Sk8 Haus and made it very clear that I'm not trying to squat or profit off the domain names. And if they would like to have them they can pay me the price that I paid for them.

    Just in case anybody is confused...there is a difference between gains and wages.
    • A wage is an agreed upon trade, like when I agree to trade one hour of my time for $150, and you agree to pay me $150 for one hour of my time, that is a wage.
    • A gain would be anything above that, like if you tipped me more than what we agreed upon, then that is a gain.
    Same principle when you're buying and selling anything.
    • If I buy "asset" for 999 and then sell "asset" to you for 999 that is a "zero-sum gain".
    • But if I sold "asset" to you for 1000 then that would be a "profit" or "gain" of $1.00
     
  21. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You can violate trademarks which are both registered and unregistered. You typically register the trademark to be more secure. But you can also have an unregistered trademark. Which I think the skateshop owner has, although he might not know it.
     
  22. clickmystuff

    clickmystuff ctr.mobi is at auction now

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    He could then file a cease and desist order, sure but even then he couldn't sue me unless he was able to prove that I was deliberately using his logo to confuse and steal his customers. Evenstill, he would also have to prove that the amount in question was at least $75k. Both of which he never could because A. It's not worth that and B. I would never and I havent tried to confuse his customers.

    So again, case closed because there is no case to close
     
  23. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    OK. I think we must agree to differ on these facts. I am not a lawyer. I would always advise seeking the advice of a lawyer well versed in trademark law, in this case. I think a good TM Lawyer would make mincemeat of your argument.

    But if you are holding the domains hostage pending some other paid agreement. That is immoral, at the very least. And flies against what you have been trying to tell us in your posts.
     
  24. clickmystuff

    clickmystuff ctr.mobi is at auction now

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    I'm not a lawyer, all my info is coming from my on salary trademarks and registrations attorney who I just got off of Skype with. But as far as anyone's argument getting made into any sort of meat? It definitely wasn't his.

    And yeah No sh it, that would be immoral and wrong, that's why there are laws against such activities. But wait what post did I say anything like that in? The domains are obviously sh it. They're not worth anything. I'm just trying to create a digital marketplace in partnership with an already established brick and mortar company. If that is too hard for anybody to understand, (which it is to everyone but the business owner) then I would move on to the next opportunity
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  25. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Nope. You are trying to make money in an immoral way. Nothing wrong with that. Cough!
     

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