question Any update on Nissan.com theft?

[Gabriel360]

Does anyone know what's going with Nissan.com?

Last I read, it was stolen after the death of Uzi Nissan. The man who never gave in to the intimidation of Nissan Motors.

I truly hope the domain translates to meaningful wealth for his surviving family members.

Currently, Nissan.com redirects to a parking page at forexssignals.com. If anyone knows what's going on, please share.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

forexssignals.com

forexssignal.com

If the family didn't understand the significance of keeping this asset safe then they probably don't deserve the wealth it could bring. Given the s*** that the original owner went through.

 

[Gabriel360]

forexssignal.com

If the family didn't understand the significance of keeping this asset safe then they probably don't deserve the wealth it could bring. Given the s*** that the original owner went through.

Thanks for the correction.

Uzi died in 2020. At the time, the domain name was renewed until 2024. What do you mean they didn't keep the domain name safe?

 

[MadAboutDomains]

What do you mean they didn't keep the domain name safe?

Last I read, it was stolen after the death of Uzi Nissan

 

[Gabriel360]

That it was stolen so soon after the death of Uzi doesn't mean the family were careless. It just means some garbage person is trying to take advantage of a family in mourning.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

That it was stolen so soon after the death of Uzi doesn't mean the family were careless. It just means some garbage person is trying to take advantage of a family in mourning.

That domain should have been registry locked and a plan in place for it to be kept safe. Who would go to court to protect such an asset and then not have this in place???

 

[Gabriel360]

I was not aware that individuals could request for a registry lock but I agree that some kind of system should have been put in place to safeguard the domain name.

I read Uzi spent about 5 to 8 million dollars fighting against Nissan. He also spoke on the personal toll it took on him and his family plus the legal battles nearly crippled his business.

The surviving family members probably have some traumas/PTSD associated with the domain name.

I just think it would be a real shame if It's stolen from the family now.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

I don't know about trauma or PTSD, that's going a bit far (gen Z speak for 'they struggled'?), but yes they should have kept it protected and also should have known given how much he spent to defend it that it was worth lots of money and worth protecting. But then, it may just be that it was Uzi's battle and his alone and the family have so much money that they don't really have time to think about a few bytes existing on the Internet.

I know I have projects that my family probably couldn't give a monkeys about when I'm 6 ft under...

 

[bmugford]

That domain should have been registry locked and a plan in place for it to be kept safe. Who would go to court to protect such an asset and then not have this in place???

I have no idea how the domain was stolen. Regardless, it doesn't really matter that much IMO.

If the family didn't understand the significance of keeping this asset safe then they probably don't deserve the wealth it could bring. Given the s*** that the original owner went through.

Maybe so, but that is kind of like saying someone should have locked their door.

That might be good practical advice, but it is still theft.

I assume they will win a default judgement. I don't really expect a criminal to show up in court to defend the lawsuit.

Brad

 

[MadAboutDomains]

I have no idea how the domain was stolen. Regardless, it is his families asset.

I assume they will win a default judgement. I don't really expect a criminal to show up in court to defend the lawsuit.


Maybe so, but that is kind of like saying someone should have locked their door.

That might be good practical advice, but it is still theft.

Brad

Luckily for them it's all electronic and recoverable.

Hopefully they will have registry lock and learn about securing a valuable domain name.

I'm not glad it's happened to them, but sans any other information I think they should have taken steps to protect it because it's valuable.

We can look at the domain's whois history to find out if it was registry locked or not at any point.

 

[bmugford]

Luckily for them it's all electronic and recoverable.

Yep. It is not like you can really go anywhere with it.

It exists on the internet. It is known as being stolen.

There is not much the thief can really do with it.

Brad

 

[MadAboutDomains]

According to the current whois history it's not looking very stolen, as the registrant looks correct. Control of the domain may be another matter. I don't think you'd even need a court for this one??

 

[bmugford]

According to the current whois history it's not looking very stolen, as the registrant looks correct. Control of the domain may be another matter. I don't think you'd even need a court for this one??

The family said the domain was transferred to another account without permission. That would be theft, regardless of what the WHOIS information shows.

Could the domain be returned without a court being involved? Possibly.

Some registrars are more cooperative than others when it comes to reported theft.

I hope the thief shows up in court and uses that defense.

The name is not stolen because even though they took control of it without permission, the WHOIS information says the other party is still the registrant.

I don't think that defense is going to take them too far.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

We can look at the domain's whois history to find out if it was registry locked or not at any point.

Looking through WHOIS records back to 2008, I don't see registry lock ever being used.

I do agree that it would be a good idea to add it on this type of domain.

Brad

 

[MadAboutDomains]

The name is not stolen because even though they took control of it without permission, the WHOIS information says the other party is still the registrant.

lol I wasn't saying that. I was saying that if it's still in their name all the need to do (probably) is prove that they are the owner as is listed in the Registrant details.

 

[bmugford]

lol I wasn't saying that. I was saying that if it's still in their name all the need to do (probably) is prove that they are the owner as is listed in the Registrant details.

Yeah, I didn't figure you meant that.

If that was the case it would create a nice loophole where you could basically take control of anything, but not change the registration record....like a car for instance.

I was just kind of pointing out the absurdity of a thief actually showing up in court to defend this.

Brad

 

[MadAboutDomains]

Yeah, I didn't figure you meant that.

If that was the case it would create a nice loophole where you could basically take control of anything, but not change the registration record....like a car for instance.

I was just kind of pointing out the absurdity of a thief actually showing up in court to defend this.

Brad

If I go to a registrar and prove that I am acting on behalf of the registrant as recorded against the domain, then surely they should be able to give it back to the rightful owner?

It seems a bit unreasonable for a registrar not to action a request to gain control of something if a registered entity or a person that can prove they are who they say they are by generally acceptable means...? No court required.

 

[bmugford]

If I go to a registrar and prove that I am acting on behalf of the registrant as recorded against the domain, then surely they should be able to give it back to the rightful owner?

It seems a bit unreasonable for a registrar not to action a request to gain control of something if a registered entity or a person that can prove they are who they say they are by generally acceptable means...? No court required.

I am aware of several stolen domain situations that were resolved without the need of court or court orders.

However, every registrar seems to have their own process to handle it.

Some stolen domain cases can be extremely complex.

There is also potential liability for the registrar if they make the "wrong" decision.

In a normal situation maybe the solution would be more straightforward.

This is not really your typical domain though. It has a lot of legal history attached to it.

Brad

 

[jberryhill]

You can always check the docket for the most recent filings.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67529655/estate-of-uzi-nissan-v-nissancom/

 

[jberryhill]

If I go to a registrar and prove that I am acting on behalf of the registrant as recorded against the domain, then surely they should be able to give it back to the rightful owner?

It seems a bit unreasonable for a registrar not to action a request to gain control of something if a registered entity or a person that can prove they are who they say they are by generally acceptable means...? No court required.

Okay, I'll bite. Let's say you are the registrar.

Someone sends you an email and says their domain name was stolen. The email address in the From: line of the email is [email protected]. You look at your records (if you are keeping data longer than you need to, but we'll leave out that part) and see that the registrant email address was [email protected]. You notice that two weeks ago, the registrant changed to [email protected].

You transfer the name back, is that correct? You received an email from the former registrant address saying the name was stolen, so you transfer it back. Right?

 

[MadAboutDomains]

Okay, I'll bite. Let's say you are the registrar.

Someone sends you an email and says their domain name was stolen. The email address in the From: line of the email is [email protected]. You look at your records (if you are keeping data longer than you need to, but we'll leave out that part) and see that the registrant email address was [email protected]. You notice that two weeks ago, the registrant changed to [email protected].

You transfer the name back, is that correct?

In my mind that wouldn't fit the bill for a generally accepted means of proving that you are who you say you are. (Business or person).

I'm thinking proving business ownership via correspondence to the registered address in this case. Or in the case of a natural person, verifiable passport details.

I didn't say no due diligence, I said by means that don't require a court. A lot of stuff goes on without needing a court. The inflexibility of domains and ability to recover easily is scary.

It's worth me noting that I have been able to update trademark ownership details with a lot less....

 

[jberryhill]

Or in the case of a natural person, verifiable passport details.

A registrar has no way of verifying anyone's passport details.

Even if there were some way to verify someone's passport details, so what? The same hacker that took over their email address to get the domain name ALSO got things like their driver's license photo that some businesses request, along with their passport details, etc..

But, no, registrars can't verify passports, driver's licenses, or any other government ID. The only thing they can do is look at it and see if it is a bad photoshop. But with AI capabilities now, there is no way anyone can look at a picture of a driver's license and know if it is real or fake. And it's not like all the governments of the world who issue driver's licenses say, "Oh, yes, registrars, come verify them, passports, birth certificates, etc.."

Updating trademark registration ownership details is pretty easy to unwind, and there's not a whole lot anyone is going to do with a "stolen trademark". What are they going to do with it? File an infringement lawsuit against someone on the basis of having falsely changed the ownership information at the USPTO?

I used to deal with a lot of these sorts of issues at Uniregistry, and it's easy to think it's easy until you are confronted with crooks who are very good at this sort of thing.

But, please, stick with me through this, okay? Because, okay, lets say you run a registrar and that person showed you through the magic "generally accepted means of proving" who they are, and in fact, they are indeed the person who was the registrant two weeks ago before the account change. And, they are saying "the domain was stolen".

Do you then transfer the domain name back?

Are you going to check in with [email protected] to get their side of the story? Yes or no?

 

[MadAboutDomains]

A registrar has no way of verifying anyone's passport details.

Even if there were some way to verify someone's passport details, so what? The same hacker that took over their email address to get the domain name ALSO got things like their driver's license photo that some businesses request, along with their passport details, etc..

Updating trademark registration ownership details is pretty easy to unwind, and there's not a whole lot anyone is going to do with a "stolen trademark". What are they going to do? File an infringement lawsuit against someone on the basis of having falsely changed the ownership information at the USPTO?

I used to deal with a lot of these sorts of issues at Uniregistry, and it's easy to think it's easy until you are confronted with crooks who are very good at this sort of thing.

But, please, stick with me through this, okay? Because, okay, lets say you run a registrar and that person showed you through the magic "generally accepted means of proving" who they are, and in fact, they are indeed the person who was the registrant two weeks ago before the account change. And, they are saying "the domain was stolen".

Do you then transfer the domain name back?

Are you going to check in with [email protected] to get their side of the story? Yes or no?

How does a court verify a business owner or person? Or worse, someone "acting on behalf of" a company or person?

Say, if I bring litigation in India despite not living there. Cause I have a trademark there and claim it is infringing my mark.

The registry will act on the ruling of the Indian court.

 

[MadAboutDomains]

How do the UDRP lot verify people are who they say they are??

 

[MadAboutDomains]

How do the UDRP lot verify the details of a trademark and the person bringing the claim are who they say they are and haven't just sent a letter for 30p ( cents if you prefer) to change the details some time ago. Unverified as I stated.