NameSilo

An Exact Match Pair Sold - Should Domain Investors Hold These?

Labeled as news in Domain Selling and Domain Sales started by Bob Hawkes, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    A few days ago the NameBio Daily Market Report had a pair of related sales at Sedo. HeyMoney.com sold for $40,000, the highest-value sale that day, while Hey.money sold for $8888. At the time of writing both are parked, and I don't know the buyer, or even if it was one seller or Sedo coordinated the sales across different sellers.

    This sale motivated me to look more deeply at the question of what exactly is an exact match domain name, especially in cases where the exact company name is two words, one of which is either a generic country code (such as AI) or a new extension (such as ventures, solutions, services, agency, etc.).

    I wrote up my thoughts, both from a domain investor and a business owner, perspective in this post just published on NameTalent.

    I would love to hear your opinions on this, including questions such as:
    • What exactly is the exact match in multiple word company names?
    • Do you hold any pairs of matched domains (the .com or perhaps .net plus the exact match new extension or something like .ai for a name that ends with the acronym AI)?
    • Have you ever sold any matched sets?
    Bob
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. Haykay2005

    Haykay2005 Top Member VIP

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    Heymoney.com, although taken in 25 extensions is good but sold too high,the buyer could get something better with that budget .. The seller is very lucky IMO and that's it.
    Lastly, having a matching pair is good for brand protection. That's what the buyer just did
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  3. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Member VIP

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    If a startup is domain-savvy, i.e. knows the benefits of good names and hacks, then it might make sense to invest $40K into a good name and about 20% of that into a hack for special use on social media, etc. (think youtu.be, tim.es, lnkd.in etc.).

    Which still might not make investing in matching names investment grade.

    Let's say you are holding 1000 word+word .coms. Let's assume, they are priced at $2,500 each and you also bought 1000 word.word combos.

    Let's further assume that you will sell 10 .coms in a year for $25K gross out of which $8.5k will be spent on renewals.

    Now, let's assume, you are pricing word.word at $2.5K also and total renewal for those is $20K (as good word.word combos are not cheap normally, and new gtlds charge even for regular names often $15-50). Now, you'd need to sell 8 of those just to break in. While couple might sell by themselves, couple to combo-buyers (1 in 5 clients wanted it, let's say), you'll be making a loss.

    Another problem: good word and word combos that might make sense for new gtlds are long taken in .com so trying to build a matching portfolio can be very costly too.

    So, I wouldn't focus on this at all. If you get a good word.word you can check if word+word.com is available and vice versa and go for for really high value combos with regular renewals.

    Or just don't waste your time and money experimenting with it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  4. NameJi

    NameJi The Domain Lover Gold Account

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    @Bob Hawkes you have a great point. IMO it is good to register a matching pair. For all my development projects and futuristic ideas I registered matching extensions (if available).

    For example (there are many)

    Training.audio (+ TrainingAudio.com)
    Salary.in (+ Salaryin.com)
    Profile.best (+ profileBest.com)
    Sites.cool (+ SitesCool.com)
    SelfDriving.courses (+ SelfdrivingCourses.com)
    FoldableMobile.com (+ foldable.mobi)
    me .rocks (+ merocks.com)

    Advantages of having matching pairs:

    1. Secure your brand with a dot com and left dot right combinations.
    2. The younger generation people (10+ years from now) may like the new domain extensions. So keep the options open.
    3. Good customer experience by having dot com as the primary and new extension as secondary with redirections.
    4. Keep an option open to chose which one to be primary and which one secondary.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  5. HotKey

    HotKey Made in Canada VIP

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    Guess an EMD is like the name says, an exact match to the search/corresponding business. These are very valuable, imo. I particularly enjoy seeing emd's where .com is forwarded to its new G match. A true EMD may span the dot now, the entire domain name including the suffix is a perfect match.

    I agree with Haykay, the .com sold for too high, but if both the com and G were sold to the same buyer and he wanted to have a monopoly, I suppose that's the price he was willing to pay to do so.

    I have been in negotiations for 3 years now to secure the .com to one of my new G's, for the sole reason of monopolizing on the emd and ultimately just use the .com as a forwarder. Because it's not an absolute necessity, it is really just a back-burner negotiation. More of an annoyance, really.

    EMDs in both the com and new G, if you can do it- awesome. But I wonder, if years from now, will it really matter? Back in the day it's the same as when everyone tried to secure the .org, .net and .com, and .com came out the winner, with .org and .net finding their place within proper usage of the keyword/suffix itself. Having all three doesn't make sense in todays web, looks rather ridiculous imo.

    And as Recons pointed out, the emd in com will have long been taken and super costly to acquire, if it isn't already in use. The registries controlling the new Gs did their homework, as such most these new Gs will have insane premium renewal fees. Either way, an uphill battle, but if one can manage to secure both it can definitely be pretty exciting.

    **

    example combo I have:

    Fury • One
    FuryOne • com

    Does this qualify as an EMD? I dunno, although it matches my business name, Fury One, it is not exactly a search query like "blue jeans".
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Thanks for the responses everyone, and thank you for the math analysis, @Recons.Com that I largely agree with - I agree that no more than 1 in 5 probably is interested enough, at least currently, in the package. In terms of investments, my viewpoint is exactly as you have stated below:
    I now routinely look both ways, but I would not pay a premium price or renewal to get the other, unless it was an extremely compelling case.

    From an owner perspective, I can't see why some leave their exact match unregistered when they can get it for $15 to $35 per year, but it happens at least now and then. I also can see astute owners wanting that as security when they do a new acquisition.

    Looking out five years, I am wondering if, from a brand protection point of view, if you have a high worth W1W2.com but do not own W1.W2, if you are seeking something $$$$+ for the .com, will the new owner be hesitant to pay that much knowing that someone else has control of W1.W2? There may be grounds to different domain sellers to work together to offer packages.

    In this sense I see how much per year worth investing in exact match new gTLD as linked to your best estimate worth of the .com. If it is a $$$ name, probably not worth paying much per year. If it is mid $$$$$ almost certainly, in my opinion, worth investing in the W1.W2 match.

    Definitely looks exact match to me!

    I don't have hard research, but my perception is certainly the same as yours, @NameJi that younger people are more accepting and informed of multiple TLD possibilities. Although almost everyone is noticing all TLDs less and less, due to how Google search works, and that is not good for the domain community.

    Thanks for the input everyone.

    Bob

    PS It was not me that moved this out of News to this section. I am not sure I accept that it was wrong in News. Yes, it mentioned a recent sale that was first in the NameBio list that day (and its twin), but I see the discussion as much broader around possible trends in brand protection, brand use, implications for domain sellers, etc. I remain somewhat puzzled why, for example, the sale of 6666666 that really is about the sale of a single domain stays in News, but this is not worthy of News. Anyway, I appreciate NamePros so much (y) that I am happy to have the discussion anywhere :xf.smile: and realize that our dedicated moderators have an impossible task and do it really well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  7. URLtrader

    URLtrader Upgraded Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi Bob,

    I own

    DNAsequencing.com
    DNA-sequencing.com
    DNAsequencing.org
    DNAsequencing.us
    DNAsequencing.co
    DNAsequencing.in
    DNAsequencing.co.in
    DNAsequencing.info

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  8. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Hi Dave,
    Thanks for your impressive list of DNA related names, but those are not what I was getting at in the linked article.

    I was getting at cases where one has a name like Word1Word2.com but it turns out that Word2 is also a new or generic country-code extension. Should the business owner as well as controlling Word1Word2.com also acquire the shorter exact match Word1.Word2, and should domain investors carry some pairs of domains, like the money pair that recently sold.

    For example if your artificial intelligence company name is WordAI. I think it makes a lot of brand protection and effective social media use sense, and future proof against possible changes in domain trends, to own both WordAI.com AND Word.ai, even if immediately you will just redirect one to the other.

    Since companies like Radix and Donuts used popularity of legacy domain prefixes and suffixes in predicting which extensions, there are a surprisingly large number of companies that one of the new extensions is part of their company name.

    There is a separate case for owning the same name across both country code or multiple legacy extensions, but that is not what I was addressing in this article. I am sorry for any confusion.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  9. URLtrader

    URLtrader Upgraded Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for your kind words.

    Sorry I misunderstood and quoted what was not requested.

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  10. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    I personally don't see this as much of a different argument from years ago. When the same question revolved around the .net and .org as brand protection. Way before all the new tlds.

    From a domain investors perspective, I think it is a mistake to buy sub-domains if you already own the .com. The chances of it increasing a sales price or being a closer to a .com sale are very unlikely. Sure you can find examples of all sorts of Branding protection registrations by end-users and the developers of the .com. But rare examples (as given in this post) are hardly the ground to reflect additional opportunity.

    I believe it is recognised by all old hands that (there will be some naysayers) that consolidating domains, when your purely in the market to sell domains is a costly and mostly a Newbie mistake.

    For Development = a different argument, and so is buying lesser extensions for resale in key words, which of course do reflect different stand-alone sales opportunities.

    It makes perfect sense for a end-user to explore what other extensions are being used for (even before making a high value purchase) even see whats available to purchase if it makes sense. to consolidate. This is a far, far call from what makes sense as a domainers investment. End users are looking at all sorts of Cost v development from Global position to Advertising methods and budget. It doesn't make any sense to view your domain as if it is already sold to a high-value purchaser before you have even achieved an inquiry in $XX,XXX's offer category. So I can only see very wishful thinkers going down this route
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  11. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Thank you for your expert opinion based on long-term success in domain investing @BaileyUK. I appreciate your perspective, and I am sure that many share a similar view.

    On the first point, though...
    it seems to me that the case I describe is rather different from both that and also the case of registering similar domain names or domains in only loosely related extensions when the flood of new gTLDs came on the scene. I agree that in those cases, largely, businesses have realized they don't need to have hundreds of defensive registrations.

    Here though, I am talking about the direct match across the dot with the company name. That is, if your company name was Bailey Services and you operated on the domain name BaileyServices.com I think it would be unwise to not at least try to secure the domain name Bailey.Services. Yes, if someone else tried to use it you could perhaps win a UDRP or URS, but why go through that hassle. My article is talking not about defensive registrations in general, but in cases where the exact match is available.

    I agree only a handful of sales that I know of that are paired like the $40k + $8888 example from this week. But perhaps, there are more than we know about, that at first they stealthily get one half, and then later the other half. But even if there are not, as the financial folks always remind us, looking backward may be instructive sometimes, but is not a guaranteed way to predict future performance.

    With so many extensions: agency, company, ventures, loan, loans, online, services, solutions, and many hundred more. there are an increasing number of companies who indeed can exactly and precisely match their company name in a domain name.

    I am clear that as a business owner I would not let the opportunity to exactly match the company name go untried. If I was selecting a two word startup name, I probably would give preference to names where both could be secured.

    I think the case, as you and others have said, for domain investors holding pairs is much less clear. Nevertheless, I think that it is at least possible if you hold a .com that does indeed have an exact match in a new or country code extension, and that is not available to a potential purchaser, you could be at a disadvantage.

    I would argue that those who invest in .com should at least consider possibilities, as should those who are in new extensions. As @Recons.Com mentioned above, often the other half is not available at a reasonable acquisition and holding price, but I think it is unwise to not at least look into it.

    Sorry to write at such length :xf.sick:! I do feel strongly that this might be something we should take note of, and when there is an exact company match the situation, in my opinion, is very different from defensive registrations in general.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  12. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    If word1word2.com has their exact match, word1.word2, they could use it as a marketing campaign tool. With a marketing campaign surrounded by the newG they would be demonstrating a different dynamic, a cutting edge and forward thinking philosophy. They could do all this while still holding ground on the .com.

    Disclaimer: This post is not about .com vs NewG, instead it is about how they can congruently work together to make the greatest impact.
     
  13. William V

    William V Established Member

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    There are many cases of multiple businesses using the same trade name, just in different parts of the country or world. The .com is often impossible for these companies to get. The .com owner might not care about the "span the dot", but for the .com losers, it could be an interesting alternative to adding an appendage to the front or back of the .com.
     
  14. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    .

    I did understand Bob that was your particular angle (and of investment) so no confusion there. However, I believe it's really a non-question in the first place due to the lack of public awareness (or business take-up) of the ntlds. Now if the New tlds suddenly take off and we see them in regular use in marketing campaigns, public press, the top one hundred businesses etc etc, then of course it's a whole different matter.

    To my mind NP is mainly a domainers board. so to meet that criteria, my answer is still No they don't make good investments. Consolidation, protection or otherwise

    I think it quite funny that the whole concept of ntlds being a good being a possible span across the dot as an investment. So what we going to do next. I know lets rule out all the businesses using acronyms as their business ID, Next lets make sure we are not inclusive to all the businesses using a Single word (or made up Brand name) as their identity. (be no good to them either) finally, more than two words or a hyphen in use. Ah well we will consider you excluded from this business identity model also otherwise we really will have confusion about that little dots place

    By by the way my example of 'Exclusions' from above probably do represent the vast majority of the top 100 businesses in any Country.

    If Ntlds have any place as a identity (which I really doubt) then it's going to be at an advertising/slogan angle, and probably nothing to do with Business names or Company identities
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  15. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Thank you for your well written reply @BaileyUK . It was the mention of .net etc. in the first one, that made me think that perhaps I had been unclear that I was talking about exact matches to company names. Anyway, glad that was not the case!
    On this, at least :xf.wink:, we can agree :xf.smile:. From almost my earliest days in domaining my main interest in domain names has been the use of domain phrases in campaigns. While multiword phrases of course can and are used with legacy extensions, I have aesthetically liked the clean look of two and three word phrases using new extensions, especially on platforms like Twitter where the simple inclusion of the dot makes them active links. They are finding some sporadic use, but you are right, have not yet caught on much.

    That being said, I think that many companies would want an exact match if they knew one existed (I think we agree that knowledge of extensions available is poor). If companies start to do that, then new companies will start to look for the availability of both, perhaps, as one factor in choosing a name and domain name. I think it is at least possible that the trend will increase, and I think we agree on that?

    Both categories of use as exact match forms of company names, and in marketing phrases as one of perhaps many extra domain names, I see new extensions and legacy ones complementing each other, and not, primarily in competition. This was nicely summarized by
    I agree entirely!

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  16. Rajuajoshi

    Rajuajoshi Established Member

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    Thank you for the examples.
    Let's take 1st example Training.audio (+ TrainingAudio.com).
    So do you consider Training.audio only or you look for .net, .co , .org first and try to acquire,/register those first and then further drill down to new domains likeTraining. Audio. Or directly jump over new extensions.
    Point I am trying to ask here is relevance of TLDs over new GTLDs .
    Thank you
     
  17. NameJi

    NameJi The Domain Lover Gold Account

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    @Rajuajoshi Relevance is the key and the combination of keywords should make sense. One should feel the need and necessity for owning the matching pair. It's like choosing your primary first and planning to back with exact match in other extensions.

    Ask yourself the below question before registring the matching pair. You will get an answer.
    "What is the damage of not owning the matching pair"?

    Here is the reasoning for my registrations:

    First example,
    "Salary //.in" is primary. The only other possibility in .com is "Salaryin //.com". Inspired by Likedin.com and linked.in domain names.

    Second Example:
    "Training.audio" is primary. Waited for TrainingAudio.com availability and registered the same.

    Other examples:
    FoldableServices.com is primary. At the same time "Foldable.Services" was available in gTLD and registered the same.

    FoldableAcademy.com is primary. At the same time "Foldable.academy" is available and registered the same.

    Below combination does not make sense:
    FoldableORG.com will not fit into the context.
    FoldableNet.com will not fit into the context.

    Below combinations make sense (i m not owning)
    HelloWorld.com and Hello.World
    FoldableTV.com and Foldable.TV makes sense.
    DomainInfo.com and Domain.Info make sense.
    NameRent.com and Name.rent make sense
    DnWorld.com and Dn.world make sense.
    ecars.com and e.cars make sense

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  18. NameJi

    NameJi The Domain Lover Gold Account

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    Matching pair in other extensions is similar or closely related to owning matching hyphenated domains in olden days.

    For example:
    MailMarket.com + Mail-market.com (old style)
    MailMarket.com + Mail.market (new style)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  19. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    My view would be not necessarily one primary over the other. The point of my article was mainly...

    If you are predominantly or only a .com investor, why not look into whether an exact match exists for some of your two word domain names. If so, and if it is available, you need to decide if the possible value it might add is worth the expense of holding it. I personally would not do it with a premium level renewal, for example.

    If you are predominantly a new gTLD investor, I think that it is always wise to see who, if anyone, has the same two word combo as your word (dot) word domain name. I think, with so much currently favouring .com, should it be available to hand register it might well make sense to hold them together.

    This of course only applies to two word where the second word is a TLD, so probably not many domains, and some will be unavailable. I have I think about 30 .com currently in my portfolio, but a bit more than one-third of them are either single word or brandable types, so it only potentially would apply to the other less than 20. Of those, only three of mine is the second word a TLD, and in 2 of those 3 cases I do have the pair. I suspect for most investors, we are not talking many domain names even if someone tried to do the pair matching as much as possible.

    A fair number on NamePros, if you go to their website, note that they offer advice to businesses re topics like naming, branding, website optimization, brand protection or things similar to one of those. For those, I think when you are in discussion with a company that does have a name with an exact match extension, you should at least make sure they know the exact match possibility exists and the costs that would be involved in securing and holding it.

    My personal portfolio is too small to learn anything from statistics wise, but of the 3 $$$+ new extension sales I have had so far in 2019, after the sale I realized (through how it is redirected) that one of the purchasers was a very small business who had been on a Word1Word2(.com) to now also own a Word1(.)Word2 which they for now use for redirection. I have not received offers on the two pairs that I have, although I have not had them much over a year, so that is not surprising. I do have in the description of each that I also own the other, so I do up front make the pair possibility known.

    In acquisitions going forward I am a little more apt to, when choosing say option A or option B in two domain names that I regard as near equal in worth, to choose the one where I can have both the Word1Word2.com and the Word1.Word2 options.In fact when looking at a .com that an exact domain exists, if it is already in other hands, that is a bit of a deterrent to me in getting the .com.

    In balance of presenting all sides, I should point out that I know of cases where a .com has sold listed on NameBio and the exact match new was sitting there to register, and it was not taken along with the .com acquisition. I am thinking about ways of seeing how many companies do in fact own both, and may write on that at some future time.

    Bob
     
  20. Haroon Basha

    Haroon Basha IZUQ.COM VIP

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    I hold the following Exact Match Domain name:
    FERTILE.LAND
     
  21. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    It is a very nice domain name :xf.smile: and I hope that it grows nice returns for you :xf.wink:.

    I have used in the post exact match in the sense of an exact match to an existing or furture company name, i.e. a startup in say the space industry is considering naming itself Word Space and they want to get both WordSpace.com and Word.space.

    Now it is of course tricky TM wise if a company already exists and have one but not the other. So as domain investors I guess we hope that a company has not but will brand using our name.

    Anyway, my main question is do you also own FertileLand .com and if not was it because you could not or because you did not find it helpful to have both?

    Of course with Fertile Land, depending on the kind of end use .org and .net also make sense as high value major legacy TLDs as well as .com, and country codes such as .in are a great fit. I see using Dofo that the term is gone in 10 TLDs currently.

    Thanks for your input, and congrats on the name!

    Bob
     
  22. Haroon Basha

    Haroon Basha IZUQ.COM VIP

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    FERTILELAND.COM LLC, Reston, Virginia, United States of America already registered but no activity on the website. Fertileland.net, Fertileland.in and Fertileland.org domain names are for sale at Network Solutions.
     
  23. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    **** oops I by mistake posted something intended for another thread here. My apologies. Mods can remove this...Sorry. ****
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  24. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I was just browsing the most recent set of links to closeouts, etc. that @Ategy.com kindly posts each day (I have no idea how he finds time to personally compile this list - hats off to him (y)).

    Anyway, in looking at the one he just posted a few minutes ago, I came across several 2-word names that ended in a TLD. The one that interested me the new gTLD was taken, but it struck me this might be a way if anyone is wanting to deliberately build up a small portfolio of paired domains where they hold both the .com match and the shorter new gTLD (or CC) match.
    1. Each day go through the @Ategy.com closeouts finding multi-word names ending in a TLD that are in niches that interest you.
    2. Check if the new or country code / alternative legacy is registered. If available check out the first year and renewal costs.
    3. If the pair interests you try to secure both pairs.
    That would not take long to do each day, and I would think after a period of time you could assemble a small portfolio without too big an investment.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  25. DnameAgame

    DnameAgame Check out the new BrandPlease.com Gold Account

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    GREAT MINDS!!!! @Bob Hawkes
    Funny, I had been thinking about this for a few & was thinking about asking a similar - but much less well explained version - hahaha.
    I have held onto a few:
    • FinanceCricket.com + Finance.Cricket
    • LevitatePro.com + Levitate.Pro
    • TerpeneDesign.com + Terpene.Design
    Think there be be 2 more, have to check.

    Interesting topic!
     

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