AhmedF BEWARE

[_Yakov_]

I was asked by AhmedF to broker beat.com, a virtually worthless in my openion domain for 20k and over. We had an agreement and I started to broker it around 5 days ago.
After talking to serious folks whom i know I managed to get a 20k abd 21k offer for it. Now AhmedF runs away because he is not willing to pay the commission fee we agreed to.
I think this is a scam, I advice anyone to keep away from him.

I'm not pleased, but I have to publish our agreement and our conversation here to make it obvious to anyone that this is a clear scam. It doesn't cotain any confidantion information.

AhmedF wrote on 10-09-2003 12:07 AM:
Hello,

I am sorry Yakov, but I will have to withdraw from this deal.

Regards,
Ahmed

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-08-2003 11:25 PM:
Why doesn't it seem right to you?
Look, you agreed to sell the domain if I find someone who will be willing to buy it for 20,000 right? I didn't ask you to agree or whatsoever, I just asked you if you want this, you say yes, you want this.

I found a buyer who is willing to pay $20 000.
I was looking for someone who is willing to pay $25 or 30k, but I cannot find anyone.
I found another buyer who is willing to pay $21k.

As per our agreement you will pay 15% commission fee if the domain is sold for over 20k.
What isn't right in this?
If you just don't want to pay me for the job I did, I will cancel the negotiation with the buyer. Otherwise I don't see ---- ANYTHING---- wrong with this case or with my action.

Please let me know asap, I'm dealing with serious folks here and
I don't want to cause any inconvinience to any of them.

AhmedF wrote on 10-08-2003 11:10 PM:
Hello Yakov,

This baffles me a bit.

$20,000 x 0.10 = $2000
$21,000 x 0.15 = $3000

That just doesnt seem right to me :/

-Ahmed

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-08-2003 06:10 PM:
Hi.
I negotiated the sale of this domain for 21k.
Please let me know your escrow.com email address and I'll tell the sellet to initiate the transaction.
Best regards,
Yakov

AhmedF wrote on 10-08-2003 04:07 AM:
No rush at all.

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-08-2003 03:33 AM:
Hi
I'm still waiting for some responses.
Are you in rush selling the domain ?

AhmedF wrote on 10-02-2003 04:51 PM:
Excellent

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-02-2003 03:09 PM:
I got a 20k offer, now working toward a greater offer.
Will keep you updated.

AhmedF wrote on 10-01-2003 04:11 AM:
Copied awstats here:
http://www.beat.com/stats/awstats.html

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-01-2003 03:05 AM:
Do you have any traffic numbers?

AhmedF wrote on 10-01-2003 02:27 AM:
Done.

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-01-2003 01:41 AM:
Okay, I can try to sell it for a minimum of 20k, if it is sold for 20k, you will have to pay 10% comission of 20k which would amount to 2k.
If I sel it for over 20k, you'll have to pay 15% of the final price.

I would approximate my chances of selling this domain fro this price is 50/50.

It would require me 5 days to get you the final answer. I will surely receive several answers instantly but I want to wait for all answers, some of which may arrive in 5 days, in order to sellect the best offer.

If this is acceptable, you'll have to change the whois for the domain to me, so that no one contact you directly (my whois is the same as for kk.com).
You will have to agree to give me 5 days and to be abligated to sell the domain if I find a buyer who is ready to pay 20k or over.

Currently I broker several names (bonuses.com and some others)and I had some concerns expressed with regards to whois information change. I want to note that I don't need your domain transferred to me, you keep your domain locked under your account, I need the information change only for the fee structure protection.

AhmedF wrote on 10-01-2003 01:29 AM:
Hello,

$10-$15k would simply be unfeasable for me - not worth the effort . Lowest I could go is $20k. I do still believe that the domain is worth $25k+, but I would like to redirect some of that money into my other progressions [im a SEO person, and liquid cash is important].

So, if you can target $20k+, I am all for it

Regards,
Ahmed

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-01-2003 12:12 AM:
Hi.

It is a nice name and will probably worth $25 000 to someone.
I have contacts with several folks/companies who are bigger than elequa, but I'm not sure if they will pay that.
I think, however, there is a big chance that I can sell it for 10 000-15,000.

It's in my interest to sell it for as much as possible cause my comission positively related to the sale price, but with a 25k minimum acceptable offer it's not too realistic. It is a fact that I brokered some names for about twise as much as the asking price.

I would try to broker the domain if you lower the acceptable price to $10 000 - $15 000. If I can get $25 000 or more, I will get that.

AhmedF wrote on 09-30-2003 11:52 PM:
Hello Yakov,

Read your post about brokering, and I would be interested.

I am thinking of selling beat.com, but I would like a sale of at least $25,000 [net].

Can that be done, or am I being unrealistic?

Regards,
Ahmed

 

[Sharpy]

Well what I think he is saying when he says "this doesn't look right to me" is that he nets 18k if you sell it for 20k or 17,850 if you sell it for 21k.

$20,000
-10%
=$18,000

$21,000
-15%
=$17,850

Does that make sence to you?

Most broker deals, using your #'s would be 10% on the first 20k and 15% on anything over that. So $2000 + 150 for you. Making you $2150 and him $18,850

Granted he seems to have agreed to your original terms, although I would suspect in a rather naieve/inocent way.

It seems you are a good person to broker a name. I would sugest you layout the terms a little more clearly though as I doubt anyone would agree to those terms. I would also suggest that your ability to broker would warrant a non-refundable deposit based on performance.

Hope you guys can work it out as this was a good deal for all, under my senario anyway.

 

[Wanda]

I commend your efforts Yakov.. you've successfully found a big ticket buyer for the domain.. he should be grateful.. and willing too share the wealth as you all have agree'd.

I wonder if the "buyer" maybe went direct too the "seller" and maybe between the two of them, they worked a deal which left you out? Hope not.. I'm just trying to imagine "why" anyone would back out of a deal like this.

Excellent work on finding a buyer!

 

[_Yakov_]

Originally posted by Sharpy
I would sugest you layout the terms a little more clearly though as I doubt anyone would agree to those terms.

Altho you doubt, it is a fact that I have brokered many names and most of them for above the asking price.
No one ever expressed any concerns about the terms, I deal with serious folks who understand this simple fee structure.

This is the first scam I run over. Hope it doesn't happen again.

Assuming that the domain is fr sale at 20k,
I usually state that if I sell your domain for 20, 000 you will pay 10% commission, if I sell your domain for over that, starting $20,001, you will have to pay 15% in commission.

As the fee structure is very simple and no concerns in any kind were ever experred about the structure, I decided it not to be reasonable to explain the thing that is very understandable.

I also a human being and $3000 is no big money to me and I have no pleasure to blow somones reputation, but in this case, this is a very unpleasant scam

Failure to fallow the agreement you enter, after the other party has spent it's time and energy to provide you with a service you requested on the terms you agreed to is a clear scam


Sharpy, you can take your philosophy somewhere else, this is a business that is built on simple agreements.
The fee structure is short and simple, so your effort to apply a concept of a long fine printed agreement to this case is invalid and even misleading.

 

[armstrong]

I was asked by AhmedF to broker beat.com, a virtually worthless in my openion domain for 20k and over.

It is a nice name and will probably worth $25 000 to someone.

How can you say these two obviously opposite statements? I don't understand.

Sharpy, you can take your philosophy somewhere else, this is a business that is built on simple agreements. The fee structure is short and simple, so your effort to apply a concept of a long fine printed agreement to this case is invalid and even misleading.

First, you have no right to snap at Sharpy who happened to say something you didn't like. If you don't like hearing contrary opinions, well, you can just take your requests for opinions somewhere else.

Second, you have to consider that your fee structure is unfair and potentially misleading. I would also have assumed that the 10% fee was for the first $20k, and the 15% was for the anything above $20k. Works for taxes, real estate sales, anything. If you think this scheme too complicated, well, I have my son's 2nd grade math books that I can send to you.

 

[_Yakov_]

Okay, I will clerify things for some of you who still cannot understand the case.

AhmedF wrote on 10-01-2003 02:27 AM:
Done.

Coordinator Inc wrote on 10-01-2003 01:41 AM:
Okay, I can try to sell it for a minimum of 20k, if it is sold for 20k, you will have to pay 10% comission of 20k which would amount to 2k.
If I sel it for over 20k, you'll have to pay 15% of the final price.

I would approximate my chances of selling this domain fro this price is 50/50.

It would require me 5 days to get you the final answer. I will surely receive several answers instantly but I want to wait for all answers, some of which may arrive in 5 days, in order to sellect the best offer.

If this is acceptable, you'll have to change the whois for the domain to me, so that no one contact you directly (my whois is the same as for kk.com).
You will have to agree to give me 5 days and to be abligated to sell the domain if I find a buyer who is ready to pay 20k or over...

Above you will clearly see the acceptance of the agreement that describes the fee structure and the abbligation of AhmedF to sell the domain for 20k+

AhmedF wrote on 10-08-2003 11:10 PM:
Hello Yakov,

This baffles me a bit.

$20,000 x 0.10 = $2000
$21,000 x 0.15 = $3000

That just doesnt seem right to me :/

-Ahmed

Above you see that AhmedF understands the fee structure without me naming the numbers or even giving him any hint. He was never misleaded and did clearly undertand the fee structure.

I hope this will make it clear that I didn't mean to mislead anyone and no one was ever misleaded with the fee structure, and AhmedF in particular clearly understood the fee structure and all he did is he run away from his abbligation.

 

[FruitFish]

Originally posted by _Yakov_
Altho you doubt, it is a fact that I have brokered many names and most of them for above the asking price.
No one ever expressed any concerns about the terms, I deal with serious folks who understand this simple fee structure.

This is the first scam I run over. Hope it doesn't happen again.

Assuming that the domain is fr sale at 20k,
I usually state that if I sell your domain for 20, 000 you will pay 10% commission, if I sell your domain for over that, starting $20,001, you will have to pay 15% in commission.

As the fee structure is very simple and no concerns in any kind were ever experred about the structure, I decided it not to be reasonable to explain the thing that is very understandable.

I also a human being and $3000 is no big money to me and I have no pleasure to blow somones reputation, but in this case, this is a very unpleasant scam

Failure to fallow the agreement you enter, after the other party has spent it's time and energy to provide you with a service you requested on the terms you agreed to is a clear scam


Sharpy, you can take your philosophy somewhere else, this is a business that is built on simple agreements.
The fee structure is short and simple, so your effort to apply a concept of a long fine printed agreement to this case is invalid and even misleading.

I agree with what Sharpy says. Does it make sense to you that you take less (17,850) when the domain sells for 1,000 more? Granted it's only $150, bottom line is it's bad service. I wouldn't doubt he would have given you the extra grand as a bonus had you done so.

 

[Tippy]

I see where Sharpy is coming from as well mind you I'd have no problems paying 25% commission on a $10,000+ sale

Mike

 

[JMJ]

I think you should eat the $150 because you know the party is going to contact him directly and you're out of it all..

 

[_Yakov_]

Originally posted by JoltHost
I think you should eat the $150 because you know the party is going to contact him directly and you're out of it all..

I don't try to negotiate the deal trough public neither I try to proceed with the sale.
The sale was canceled befre this post was made as I don't deal with people who don't honor the agreements they enter no matter how proffitable it is.
Should the buyers I contacted buy the domain directly I will get my commission fees trough the federal court.
Also, there is no questions in the $150, AmedF is just too cheap to pay for the service.
I wonder if this domain ever sells for anywhere over $5000.
:talk:

 

[TheWatcher]

Whatever the reason of the seller. I still support a broker for finding a buyer that quick.

Amazing ...

Regards,
TheWatcher

 

[pelican]

Off Topic.

What is the requirement for the domain before you accept to broker the domain?

 

[Larry]

The bottom line is the terms of sale were accepted and the agreement should be honored.


Everything else is conversation and personal feelings.

 

[_Yakov_]

Originally posted by NeonHQ
Off Topic.

What is the requirement for the domain before you accept to broker the domain?

Refer to this thread.
http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7629

I will be out for a week or two, I might not be answering any enquiries till I'm back

Originally posted by Larry
The bottom line is the terms of sale were accepted and the agreement should be honored.


Everything else is conversation and personal feelings.

The buttom line is:

AhmedF tried to use a service that is based on trust and doesn't requires any prepaiment. He has demonstrated thet he is not among people who can be trusted and this thread was to state that.

I'm not sorry for the potential money I could have made, I am sorry that I trust wrong people sometimes.

 

[AhmedF]

Umm ...

I find this a bit unfair ... I had no intention of scamming anyone. If anyone visits DomainState, [ http://domainstate.com/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=13556&perpage=15&pagenumber=2 ] you can see that Yakov posted there also.

Blindly accusing me without hearing anything from me is quite unfair. In our subsequent PMs, I told Yakov that if any buyer came to me, I would ask Yakov first to make sure they were not one of his 'brokered' deals. Nevertheless, I seem to be blocked, so his threat of taking me to federal court now makes my domain completely unsellable for a while.

 

[GCgirl4ever]

Just my .02 here, you put the 15% commission for even an extra $1K, that makes no sense, if I were him I would say sell it to the 20K offer since your rates make no sense whatsoever. How is he "scamming" you? He hasn't sold the domain so where are you losing money?

 

[_Yakov_]

Originally posted by GCgirl4ever
Just my .02 here, you put the 15% commission for even an extra $1K, that makes no sense, if I were him I would say sell it to the 20K offer since your rates make no sense whatsoever. How is he "scamming" you? He hasn't sold the domain so where are you losing money?

Restating the point:
Failure to fallow the agreement you enter, after the other party has spent it's time and energy to provide you with a service you requested on the terms you agreed to is a clear scam

In terms of looses:
I lost some time and energy and did confuse 2 of my contacts who submitted their offers and the seller backed off.

Does it make sense ? :tu:
Lol, that's a funny smile picture.

 

[kohashi]

Oh god. Its a identical twin thread.

 

[Chris_C]

The bottom line is the terms of sale were accepted and the agreement should be honored.

I don't think there is any dispute that the terms of this sale were accepted from the start. The point is that the original terms were were misinterpreted by both ahmed & also a number of people (on various forums). Beyond that, there's really nothing binding in this contract as it's even been mentioned that it was done on a "friendly" basis.

Okay, I can try to sell it for a minimum of 20k, if it is sold for 20k, you will have to pay 10% comission of 20k which would amount to 2k. If I sel it for over 20k, you'll have to pay 15% of the final price.

Beyond that these terms are IMO rediculous, I can only assume that ahmed misinterpreted them to mean 10% on anything upto 20k, 15% on anything over 20k. Either that or like someone else pointed out it was a naive mistake.. My suggestion to you is next time get a lawyer involved and do it properly from the start.

As an aside I've dealt with Ahmed on many occassions and I can vouch for his integrity. I don't blame him for thinking something is a bit "fishy" about the 20k to 21k jump. I mean, hey! Great news, you now get $150 less because I convinced the guy/gal to pay $21k instead of $20k!

 

[_Yakov_]

I think I have to start from pointing to that the target was not 21k but the highest possible offer. Would it be 22k, 25k or 30k, there will be no 'math question' that you did stick to.

There is no 'math question' in anyway because of the fallowing reason:
From Ahmeds calculation (miscalculation)

AhmedF wrote on 10-08-2003 11:10 PM:
Hello Yakov,

This baffles me a bit.

$20,000 x 0.10 = $2000
$21,000 x 0.15 = $3000

That just doesnt seem right to me :/

-Ahmed

You can clearly see that he counted $3000, so in his mind there will be no difference for him, for what price the domain is sold, for $20k- $2k or for $21k - $3k as he would get $18k anyway.

Why did he back off then?
Because he is too cheap to pay the fees and not because he misunderstood something.