AfterNic Problem

[johnn]

I have a name that listed on Afternic and it was sold on 9/4/04 (2-character name)

- The buyer paid for the name so afternic put the money in escrow.
- The name is at Moniker
- The buyer keep insist that I have to transfer the name to his account from another Registrar (instead of him create an account from Moniker so I can push)
- After waiting for 5 days and the buyer never response to either my mail or aftermic mail. Afternic suggest me to create an account from Monker and send the account info to the buyer. So I did.

- On the 09/15 the buyer said that I created the account witout his permission and he refused to use the account.
- On the 09/16 the name is GONE from the account that I created from Moniker - the password was also changed.
- On the 09/17 the buyer request a charge back from Afternic and as off today I don't know what the *uck I suppose to do:

- Afternic lost the money
- My Domain name is gone

??????????????????

 

[Mark]

That's not good ...

I'd try forwarding all information to Moniker first ~

What does the current whois say also ?
If he used his real name - You may be able to track him down or at least get some kind Info to use against him - Maybe Afternic can Provide some Info as well seeing there is a Major Conflict Here -

 

[johnn]

The buyer's address is in Texas and the new owner of my name is in UK.

Figure it out?

Since Afternic told me to create the account and transfer to that account, I'll let them deal with Moniker.

 

[unused-Afternic-2165]

Hi Johnn,

I am sorry that we have not communicated effectively to you about this transaction. We have not lost the money. Furthermore, we have never failed to pay a seller who has transferred his name with authorization from Afternic. It appears that you performed your part of the transfer promptly and as we suggested. Unfortunately, the buyer of your name has caused problems that is delaying the completion and closing of your transaction. This delay is unfortunate, but we have contacted both Moniker and PayPal. Moniker was very cooperative and I believe that we should hear from PayPal soon. I apologize again for this delay.

Michael Collins
Afternic.com

 

[wlspro]

My only suggestion is to first ensure Moniker places the domain name on hold status and does not permit transfer to another registrar pending resolution. Good luck if it flies off to an offshore registrar which does not recognize US courts and laws. Your only remedy would then be UDRP which will most probably not help you in this situation.

As long as the registration is with Moniker you should be able to place it back in your original account after the situation has been researched. They should accept your request if you do it promptly and provide them with an indemnity agreement which basically states you agree to be held responsible if the current “fraudulent” registrant decides to sue Moniker.

eNom and Dotster have been known to reverse a domain account change without much fuss when requested promptly.

As a matter of law it is improper to create an account for a buyer and transfer the domain name to it. Although some brokers suggest this it is not right. When creating a new account you have to agree to terms on behalf of the buyer which you are not authorized to do. Always have the buyer create the account and provide you with the account name - and not the password. If you have access to the Buyer’s account by having the password, even for one second, they can always make changes or move the domain to another registrar and say you made the change without their knowledge.

 

[johnn]

Hi Johnn,

I am sorry that we have not communicated effectively to you about this transaction. We have not lost the money. Furthermore, we have never failed to pay a seller who has transferred his name with authorization from Afternic. It appears that you performed your part of the transfer promptly and as we suggested. Unfortunately, the buyer of your name has caused problems that is delaying the completion and closing of your transaction. This delay is unfortunate, but we have contacted both Moniker and PayPal. Moniker was very cooperative and I believe that we should hear from PayPal soon. I apologize again for this delay.

Michael Collins
Afternic.com

I was left in the dark for several days and after over three weeks, I still don't know where we stand. I have several names sold from your site before without a problem but there is something fishy in this transaction. I suggest:
- Never create an account from another registrar as "wlspro" said it's illegal to do so.
- If you smell something is fishy like in this case and the buyer is not willing to complete the transaction in 3 days, the name will be transferred to Afternic holding registrar so the seller does not have to suffer for loss time. We pay the fee so we deserve the service (may be you should modify tour tems & conditions).
- Better communications between seller and buyer. "We're looking in this matter" does not convey a message of "what is going on" to the seller or buyer.
- Try to update the transaction status at least once a day, don't wait until either party get upset because they're left in the dark.

And lastly as we speak right now, I still don't have the right answer from you as what will happen?

Regards,

John

 

[unused-Afternic-2165]

Hi John,

Thank you for your reply. I asked the Escrow Manager to send a message to you yesterday about this transaction. I hope that this message clears things up for you. We are still waiting for a response to PayPal to close this transaction. I am not sure what will be the outcome of this transaction, but your guarantee with Afternic is that you will receive payment or your name will be returned. There is a possibility that Afternic could lose the name and the funds, but our guarantee protects you. We cannot close the transaction and disburse funds until we are sure which that we will not have to return your name. I am sorry for the delay.

Regards,
Michael Collins

 

[jberryhill]

Impressive.

 

[johnn]

Since I started the thread I need to update everyone the status of my Afternic account:

- I received the money today from Afternic and the name is back in Moniker account.

I just want to say thank you to Micheal for his attention in this matter even those it can be resolved sooner so I don't have to wait for almost a month.

I believe this is an isolated incident and has nothing to do with Afternic overall services.

I will continue to do business with Afternic - I just have to be more carefull with my action.


Again - thank you Michael Collins and his staff for their service.

John

 

[johnn]

When you thought it's over.........it's not

I got three email from the buyer today saying that he will his lawyer contact me Monday because I did not transfer the name to him??????

Should he contact Afternic to resolve the problem instead of me?

This is really WTF?

 

[Mark]

So you now have received the money ... and the Name Back ???? - How did that happen ? ....

If the buyer truly wants the name now - and you have the money ... I would insist that he immediately opens an Account as you suggested in the beginning - Or just Send the money back to him ...

Sorry to see such a mess Surrounding your sale !

 

[johnn]

I think because I had to wait too long (almost a month) Afternic paid me and hold the name. Afternic contacted Moniker to get the name back to Moniker account under Afternic.

Technically speaking, the buyer should not contact me at all. All disputes should be directed to afternic.

Who said that life was easy?

Everyone want to sue me (the scam artist who sold me the name and want it back - seofoum.net)

I'm in wrong business - should be a lawyer instead!

 

[wlspro]

You have not provided all the details (and should not do so in a public forum in light of the threat of a lawsuit) but these are my general observations.

It appears you presently have possession of both the money and the domain name. If true this would be terrible especially for Afternic!

“I received the money today from Afternic and the name is back in Moniker account.”

You have to decide which one you want to keep and which one you will part with. If you want to keep both you will certainly be contacted by their attorneys who will have an excellent case against you and more importantly against Afternic which has not performed its responsibilities as an escrow company. An escrow company is in a position of trust and cannot so blatantly violate such trust by making a payment to you when you still have title and control of the domain name.

Now if you do not have the funds and only have the domain name in your account at Moniker I would suggest the following two suggestions.

First option is simply avoiding any contact with the Buyer. Let his lawyer write you and set out the legal basis for his objection so that you may respond accordingly. They would certainly have to contact Afternic as well and you should be in communication with them as well in this regards.

Since it appears that this whole transaction is suspect and assuming you prefer to just walk away from it your second option is to go back to your agreement and terminate it. The agreement with Afternic (see http://www.afternic.com/agreement.php) states:

“Either party of an escrow transaction may cancel the transaction if the other party of a transaction delays the transaction more than 10 business days provided that the canceling party gives 5 business days notice and the cancellation does not become effective if the cause of delay is resolved within the 5 business days. This cancellation notice cannot be given unless there is a 10 day delay by the other party.”

You would therefore contact the Buyer, inform them that the pending transaction was for the transfer of the current registration to them which is with Moniker, that they have failed to provide you with their account name at Moniker within the 10 business days as provided under the agreement, and you are hereby giving them a 5 day notice that the transaction is void and null if they fail to provide you with an account name at Moniker so that you can push the domain name and complete the transaction. Their failure to do so shall afford you the right to cancel the transaction as provided for in the Agreement to which they are a party.

If however you have the domain name as well as the money Afternic better move quickly and rectify the situation to the Buyer’s satisfaction as it will be in gross violation of its position of trust as an escrow company. Should you fail to assist in the resolution of this issue (by keeping the money and the domain name - which you shouldn’t but can) Afternic will not only have to refund to the Buyer on its own but also pay for damages and possibly more.

 

[wlspro]

Afternic contacted Moniker to get the name back to Moniker account under Afternic.

So the domain name is in Afternic's account and not yours. In that case go spend the money and let Afternic worry about transferring it to the Buyer.

What could the Buyer demand from you now? The domain name? You do not have the domain name now, it is in Afternic's possession. The whois should show Afternic as owner (actually Afternic in trust for the Buyer).

 

[unused-Afternic-2165]

Let me see if I can shed any light on the current situation.

Johnn does not control the name any longer. The name is in the buyer's account at Moniker. The buyer is having trouble initiating a transfer to his Wild West Domains account after many attempts. I have assurances from Moniker that the name is not locked in any way. I am communicating with the buyer and Moniker daily to try help resolve this for our buyer.

Michael Collins

 

[harpo]

hats off to afternic for looking after the seller, there are alot of sneaky peoplein this world and its nice to have a friend like aternic, imagine doing this sale without the help of this company????
Im in a situation with a seller right now on afternic and am seeing if they are sticking by their agreement
Paul

 

[onspec]

Johnn, sorry to hear of this experience. My sense is that it is an exception rather than the rule.

I recently sold a $x,xxx domain at Afternic. The buyer created an account at Moniker, I pushed to his account, it resolved in Whois almost immediately and the whole transaction from soup to nuts took a few days from start to finish. Although Afternic's eCheck has yet to clear, but I'm sure all will go smoothly.

Good luck with the resolution. Afternic's management are straight shooters.

 

[armstrong]

As a matter of law it is improper to create an account for a buyer and transfer the domain name to it.

Most of my names are at my enom reseller account. When I sell a name, I create a sub-account for the buyer, then push the name to it. In my view, it has to be done this way, since:

- its the only way I can still have access to the sub-account in case the buyer needs post-sale assistance; and
- a lot of end-users are clueless about domains and the transfer process

What exactly is improper about this?

How about if the buyer is informed of this procedure prior to the transaction? If they make an objection, then fine - ask them to create their own account. If they don't make a fuss, then go ahead.

 

[middlebe]

As a matter of law it is improper to create an account for a buyer and transfer the domain name to it. Although some brokers suggest this it is not right. When creating a new account you have to agree to terms on behalf of the buyer which you are not authorized to do. Always have the buyer create the account and provide you with the account name - and not the password. If you have access to the Buyer’s account by having the password, even for one second, they can always make changes or move the domain to another registrar and say you made the change without their knowledge.

Yeah, I have to agree with wlspro on this one. In most scenarios, a company with whom one opens an account has exactly one opportunity to exact the client's agreement to their contract, and that's at the time of opening. And for the client, it may be one of the only times they have easy access to those terms of use!

I like armstrong's solution with enom, but it doesn't sound like moniker offers such an option.

Good luck with resolving this. I guess the moral of the story may be that it's best to negotiate details such as the transfer as the sale is closed, rather than afterwards?

 

[wlspro]

Most of my names are at my enom reseller account. When I sell a name, I create a sub-account for the buyer, then push the name to it. In my view, it has to be done this way, since:

- its the only way I can still have access to the sub-account in case the buyer needs post-sale assistance; and
- a lot of end-users are clueless about domains and the transfer process

What exactly is improper about this?

Somehow when it comes to domain names people seem to completely forget common sense and the right way things have been done for ages. The argument that setting up an account with eNom by a Seller for transferring a domain name to a Buyer is ridiculous!

Lets say you want to send some money to someone. He does not have an account at the bank. You have two options:

(1) go to the bank pretending you are the other person, signing an agreement with the bank as if you were the other person which clearly states “I, the applicant, agree to the terms of the bank for this account …” , making a deposit in that account and then handing over the account to the other person, or

(2) asking the other person go to the bank, open an account without any misrepresentations, reading and agreeing to the bank terms whatever they may be, and then making the deposit in the other person’s account.

Can anyone here justify doing the first instead of the second?

Would you argue I need to have access to the other person’s money afterwards because they need “post-sales” assistance or that they are “clueless about managing their bank account”? It is none of your business if they can properly manage their bank account - or maybe you would like all parties sending you money have access to your bank accounts. And who gave you the right to access their account once you have sent someone money to be put in their bank account?!