86'd from PayPal AND Amazon just for owning a Domain Name

[andriegel]

Hi,

I got 86'd from Paypal just for owning Earthliberationfront.com

Two days later, I got the same from Amazon. (Funny thing, they still sell their ELF book under Google Adwords when you search under Earth liberation front.)

I simply bought the domain for the traffic- it gets around 750 uniques a day.

I can live without both, but no Paypal is a hassle. I never even ran any transactions with Paypal from the site.

Andrew
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[Midano]

This sounds like a beginning of another Orwell's book...
Freaky.

 

[RogueWriter]

I'm not surprised, really - no merchant is going to want to appear on that page, as they don't want to give the appearance of supporting a terrorist organisation. Further, I'm frankly surprised you haven't received a visit from the FBI. That's not to say they aren't aware of and watching you..... any law enforcement agency that goes to a judge with a request to wiretap the owner of that domain is probably going to get the okay......

Not to alarm you, but I still think you may have greater issues to worry about, not the least of which is having pissed off a buncha terrorists.

Just as a followup........ personally, I would contact the FBI and offer to sell it to them for use as a sting operation.... that might give you some return on your money, and dump off a domain that I think will give you nothing but grief..... a final note on that, contacting them is bound to reflect more positively than them contacting you, especially if you are already on their radar......

Hey, one last thing to consider, do you suppose those two merchants dumped you on their own, or do you suppose someone pointed them in your direction? If the latter, the only ones that I think would do so might be the government or someone in the heirarchy of the elf that doesn't want you making money off of their organisation....

 

[IAmAllanShore]

You must have had Amazon products on the page, and somehow or another PayPal was able to track you to the account (When you bought the domain, you paid for it with PayPal probably? TOS: Can't buy or sell anything offensive using PayPal).
-Allan

 

[redking]

Earthliberationfront.com get 750 uniques a DAY?!?

Are people really typing this in or was it from old traffic???

 

[JMJ]

I agree if you used Amazon on the site thats why you got the boot. If you paid for the domain via Paypal thats why they canceled your account. No legit company is going to want to associate themselves with this name. I understand your interest in it's traffic and trying to monetize it but I think that one is going to be an impossible task other than parking it.

 

[RJ]

What reason did PayPal give for closing your account? I've never heard of such a thing happening for just owning a certain domain.

 

[RogueWriter]

Next will come the IRS audit, lol, and suits knocking on the door for a chat, jeeese, you'd have gotten into less trouble regging 'disneysucks.com' or some such, rofl...

 

[Mark]

What reason did PayPal give for closing your account? I've never heard of such a thing happening for just owning a certain domain.

Yes Really ! ~ I could almost imagine this happening elsewhere .... But not here (US) !! - As far as advertisers - Yes , It is their right .... But Paypal ????

 

[andriegel]

I did have a site up with affiliate links.
The first affiliate to complain was VERY nice about it, even after the authorities (the guys in black suits) contacted them to make inquiry. They simply asked that I take the links down, which I did. We still have an ongoing relationship.
The big G-Corporation declined to have any of their ads come through. They were also very nice about it.
I did sell some books through Amazon on the site. Now mind you, the site I had up was not inflamatory at all- just references to news articles. Amazon sells the books on eco-radicals, so how bad can it be?
I'm sure the Paypal guys got scared when the men in black called.
I have also been proactive in making contact with the authorities with a seemingly disinterested response.

Andrew
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[IAmAllanShore]

I think everyone's question has yet to be answered:
The PayPal question. How did they connect you to the domain and/or have any relation with the domain?
I assumed it was in connection with 2.8

2.8 Liability for Violations of the Acceptable Use Policy. If you engage in the following behavior, PayPal may fine you, as explained below.


Using the PayPal service to receive payments for any sexually oriented or obscene materials or services in violation of PayPal’s Mature Audiences Policy.


Using the PayPal service to receive payments for any narcotics, other controlled substances, steroids or prescription drugs in violation of PayPal’s Prescription Drugs and Devices Policy or the Drugs and Drug Paraphernalia Policy.


Using the PayPal service to receive payments for wagers, gambling debts or gambling winnings, regardless of the location or type of gambling activity.

You and PayPal agree that the damages that PayPal will sustain as a result of the behavior outlined above will be substantial, including (without limitation) fines and other related expenses from its payment processors and service providers, but may be extremely difficult and impracticable to ascertain. In the event that you engage in such activities, then PayPal may fine you $500.00 USD and/or PayPal may take legal action against you to recover losses that are in excess of the amount fined. You acknowledge and agree that $500.00 USD is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal’s damages, considering all currently existing circumstances, including (without limitation) the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated and the anticipation that proof of actual damages may be impractical or extremely difficult. You agree that PayPal is entitled to deduct such fines directly from any existing balance in the offending account, or any other PayPal account owned by you.

If you use the PayPal service in a manner that violates theAcceptable Use Policy, including but not limited to the three categories described above, your account will be subject to limitation or immediate termination, as stated in the Closing Accounts and Limiting Account Access Policy.

You further understand that, if you use the PayPal service in a manner that violates the Acceptable Use Policy, including but not limited to the three categories described above, PayPal may incur substantial liability and/or suffer significant damages, including (without limitation) fines and other related expenses from its payment processors and service providers. By selling goods or services (including access to content) in contravention of the Acceptable Use Policy or the Restricted Activities section of this User Agreement (currently Section 7.2), you acknowledge liability to PayPal for any and all damages suffered by PayPal. Without limiting the foregoing, you agree to reimburse PayPal for any and all costs, expenses, and fines levied on PayPal by its payment processors and/or service providers as a result of your activities.

You agree that, if either you or PayPal commence litigation or arbitration in connection with this paragraph, the prevailing party is entitled to recover reasonable attorneys’ fees and any other costs incurred in such proceeding in addition to any other relief to which the prevailing party may be entitled.

Check out http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside to see everything you can't buy or sell using PayPal.

-Allan

 

[William9]

TOS: Can't buy or sell anything offensive using PayPal).
-Allan

Thanks for reminding us Allan, excellent point.

 

[IAmAllanShore]

Ok, here's probably the reason. From:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=offensive

You many not use PayPal in the purchase or sale of items or support of organizations that promote hate, violence, or racial intolerance. PayPal also prohibits a person convicted of a violent felony, or his or her relatives or associates, from using PayPal to benefit financially from the convicted criminal’s notoriety or crime.

In determining what goods or services are prohibited under the Offensive Material Policy, PayPal will consider some or all of the following factors:

Promotion or glorification of hate, violence, or racial intolerance


Graphic portrayal of violence or victims of violence


History of user activity


Financial exploitation of a crime


Furthermore, such organizations outlined above may not be listed in PayPal Shops, nor may any website listed in PayPal Shops advertise or support such organizations.

-Allan

 

[Mark]

If that were really Enforced .... There wouldn't be any "Electronic Games" , "Movies" , "Music" , etc ..... allowed to be sold through PP ~ Still seems a bit extreme providing his site weren't actually "Promoting" their Cause !
Dunno ~

 

[andriegel]

here is a copy of the letter I received after I called and wrote about the account closure:

"Dear XXXX,,

Thank you for your correspondence into the Offices of PayPal. I sincerely apologize for the difficulties you have encountered while using PayPal.
Please allow me to offer the following information concerning your situation.

A review of your PayPal account under the email address XXXX shows that on February 23, 2005, we placed your account under limited access. On February 27, 2005, we notified you that we were ending our business relationship. Unfortunately this decision may not be appealed. This decision has been made in accordance with PayPals User Agreement. PayPal, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to
limit access to sending money or making withdraws from an account PayPal
may continue to limit your account access for up to 180 days as it is necessary to protect PayPal against the risk of reversals, or may close your account by giving you notice and mailing a check for any funds in your account (minus funds that are in dispute) to the address you have provided.

From your inquiry, I understand that you are seeking information on what influenced our decision to end our business relationship. PayPal did not make this decision lightly, however, outside of a court order, we will not release the specific things that motivated our decision. I refer you to section 11 of PayPals User Agreement. PayPal reserves the limit or permanently close an account if we believe that the account poses a risk to you, PayPal or its users.

Again, Mr. XXX, I apologize for the frustration and inconvenience this situation has caused. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again at [email protected].

Sincerely,
XXX
Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company

This was my letter of inquiry as to why they closed the account:

Dear PayPal employee,

I have been having extraordinary difficulty resolving a problem related to my account and I have made considerable efforts to correct the problem with your telephone staff: At the last conversation, I spoke to Bob (#7783) who instructed me to write this email address for further clarification and that you are the only individual(s) that can correct the problem. Please review, explain, and reactivate my PayPal account as soon as possible. Thanks in advance for your time and efforts.

Details:

Case ID: xxxx
Email on Account: xxxxx

Last week, I logged on to my PayPal account to find a message screen that indicated that my account access had been limited, and that I needed to visit the Resolution Section of your website to correct the problem. At the resolution center, it indicated that PayPal needed to complete an identity verification process where the PayPal computer telephoned my home and prompted for a response. I successfully completed this process, and verified that the results had been posted to the account by phone with a telephone representative a day later. She indicated that it may take up to 72 hours for a PayPal employee to verify the action and to reverse the account limitation.
Last Sunday night I received a short email from PayPal indicating that PayPal no longer wanted to do business with me, and if I needed additional information, to login to my account and go to the resolution center. I logged on, it said that all the verification processes were complete. I then sent an inquiry via an online contact form as to the reason why this action occurred; certainly it must be some sort of mistake.
Shortly thereafter, another email came from PayPal indicating that I needed to login to the resolution center to correct this problem. When I went to the resolution center yet again, it still showed that I had completed all the verification procedures.

On Monday, February 28, 2005 I called the telephone support line for PayPal:

The first two individuals were unable to handle such inquiries, so I was transferred to Leslie. (#6455)
Leslie had me on hold for quite some time, and when she came back on the line, she kept saying she was looking at my account, "seeing what's in here", etc. It seemed odd that she would have to "dig around" in my account to find the answers. Lastly she said "it was a business decision, and that the risks outweighed the benefits in doing business" with me. This kind of response for absolutely no reason whatsoever is entirely unacceptable. When I asked Leslie what could be the reason for such an action, she paused and delayed considerably, and then said that I would have to obtain a subpoena in order to find out any details. I am completely shocked and offended that your employee would take such an adversarial stance and tone with me for absolutely no reason.
I then requested to Leslie that she forward me to another individual of higher managerial authority. She responded saying that she would try to find someone in "Escalation".
The next person I spoke to was Bob. (#7783) Bob was cordial and respectful, and apologized for the delays in getting this problem resolved. Bob listened the details of my situation and put me on hold to investigate: When he came back on the line he said, "To be honest with you, we can close you down for any reason, but I am not able to tell you exactly why. You can send an email to our executive department, and they will be able to answer your questions. They are a group of 8-10 people that are the supervisors of the supervisors. They usually answer their emails within 24 hours." He then gave me this email address.
And that leads me here to you now. Please investigate this issue and restore my account access.

In conclusion, I want to state that I have had a flawless record with both PayPal and Ebay. I have a very high credit rating. I have not violated any terms of the PayPal user agreement. I am hoping this is some sort of terrible oversight, as it is a really horrible way to treat a customer.

I look forward to your timely response.


Sincerely,

XXXX

 

[IAmAllanShore]

Did you use PayPal to pay for the domain name ELF?
On digitalpoint (I think it was there, but didn't find it with a brief search...) I remember a user who was kicked out of PayPal for buying an explicit domain name using PayPal, and they kicked him out for that reason.
-Allan

 

[andriegel]

No- I did not use the account to pay for the domain name.
Andrew

Did you use PayPal to pay for the domain name ELF?
On digitalpoint (I think it was there, but didn't find it with a brief search...) I remember a user who was kicked out of PayPal for buying an explicit domain name using PayPal, and they kicked him out for that reason.
-Allan

 

[IAmAllanShore]

Then I must admit I am perplexed!
Do you know any connection with your e-mail on file with PayPal that would be connected to the ELF site?
Interesting indeed, thanks for all of the above information, more insight into the inner workings of the beast
-Allan

 

[sunken]

Amazon pays through Paypal, it's possible that they are the one that contacted Paypal since they also cancelled you. Paypal also has the domain in the Paypal call, so it could have been just their internal records. Sorry to hear about what happened.

 

[William9]

andriegel/B]

My gosh, paypal has really put you through the hoops.