discuss 3+ yrs in domaining. No 4-figures

[abstractdomainer]

I have been a part of the domaining industry for quite some time now. And this is something strange when I look at many people making a terrific amount of sales and it has been 3 years and I haven't made a four-figure sale.

While there have been tonnes of low three-figure sales and that has been my focus, there have been exactly 0 sales in the four-figures as much as I recall. I need your help in diagnosis if you will. There could be three reasons for this, I believe:

1) I do not own the right names that sell for 4-figures - So, my strategy has always been to take up some names (like 20-30), which would sell for low to mid $$$ and close them, as much as possible.

2) I do not price the names right - I dip my feet deep into .CO as well, but major sales were in mid-3-figures only, with the platform taking a chunk of it and I remained with whatever was left, in bits-and-pieces.

3) I never renew my domains (not even 1) - A third thing that I believe is going wrong with me, is not renewing the domain for another year, looking at the trade-offs. I look at domaining in a short-term perspective maybe, which is why four-figures are not coming my way. I usually think of it this way:

-- You renew a domain for say $15 which may not sell for another year or the year after that, whereas in promos, you may end up getting 7 domains for the same cost. The chances of selling 1 out of these 7 is still high for me, since the risk is diversified. And hence, it makes sense to diversify the risk

-- Another thought process I have, when I see a domainer invest $2k for a single domain name, is that how can someone be so sure that it is a good investment??

I have two questions:

1) Help me diagnose the problem in my thought process and investment strategy so that I get in that four-figure league ( I make good money from domaining but never good sales)
2) Help me understand, what gives people confidence to renew a domain or acquire something for a $2k price?

 

[abstractdomainer]

If you don't renew any of your names then you are essentially only hand-registering I assume?

Without going into too much detail, it's not surprising that you haven't sold any domains in the 4 figure range when your avg cost is $5 per name with zero renewals?

Yes. $2-$5 mostly. I get the point.

 

[J Sokol]

Thank you for starting this thread @abstractdomainer - I know a lot of us struggle with the same problem.

Here's my question for those of you who advocate keeping your domains for longer than a year: Do you base your decision on bids and inquiries received, or do you keep them based on your belief that they have solid value?

 

[Joe N]

Here's my question for those of you who advocate keeping your domains for longer than a year: Do you base your decision on bids and inquiries received, or do you keep them based on your belief that they have solid value?

It's a bit of both for me. I like to think I'm pretty discerning about my choices, but I still buy the odd name and then wonder why I did after a couple months.

Conversely, there are names I would drop if I didn't see good existing use cases for them.

 

[bmugford]

But how do you identify that a name is worth a 4-figure investment? Are you sure you would be able to sell this? And if yes, how?

Experience. I did not start out buying domains in that range. I worked my way there.

I think you really need to work on the buy quality, and being willing to renew the quality domains.
The upside on registering whatever and not renewing anything is very limited.

It also doesn't give you much experience in domain valuation.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Here's my question for those of you who advocate keeping your domains for longer than a year: Do you base your decision on bids and inquiries received, or do you keep them based on your belief that they have solid value?

Both. It just comes with experience.

Some domains are just objectively good. These type of domains usually have large pools of potential end users.

If you get inquiries that just validates the quality of the domain, though I have many domains that would sell for thousands reseller that rarely get inquiries, and many lower quality ones get several offers.

I would worry more about inquiries on a portfolio scale than a single domain. If you own many domains and are not getting many inquiries, you might be doing something wrong.

On a side note, I drop plenty of dead weight each year as well.

Brad

 

[J Sokol]

@Joe Nichols and @bmugford - Roughly how long did it take you to develop a good sense of domain value?

I would worry more about inquiries on a portfolio scale than a single domain. If you own many domains and are not getting steady inquiries, you might be doing something wrong.

That's an interesting point - I've been able to sell most of the domains I've bought, but mostly at low value. I'm now trying to discern the difference between a xxx and a xxxx domain. I trust I will figure it out with time.

 

[Joakim]

My first real aftermarket purchase ended some months later as my first domain sale. From approx $300 to nearly $4k.

That basically set the blueprint for what I could achieve.

I would recommend getting familiar with the aftermarket as early as possible.

 

[Joe N]

@Joe Nichols and @bmugford - Roughly how long did it take you to develop a good sense of domain value.

I'd trust Brad's sense a lot more than mine!

I have a pretty good feel for what can sell for four figures, and I'm getting a bit of a feel for five figure names. I would say it's after three years thatI started feeling pretty confident. Probably would have happened more quickly if I had put more time in.

 

[bmugford]

@Joe Nichols and @bmugford - Roughly how long did it take you to develop a good sense of domain value?

I agree with Joe. I would say after the first 2-3 years, but it really depends how much exposure you have when it comes to various domain types.

If you are buying domains day in and day out it will come a lot faster. It will allow you to track the market and get a feel for what sells and in what range. The more quality domains you own, the more chances you will have to make sales to end users.

I generally try to target domains that have several end users now, and are likely to only have more in the future more than trendy (flavor of the day) type domains. These could be popular terms, branding words, keywords, etc.

Brad

 

[Jv1999]

the answer was "I never renew domain names." Shoulda led with that... can't make the higher sailz unless you wait for that incoming offer...

or if you outbound a lot.

 

[Zagalee]

How many domains do you own?

I've never owned more than 100 domains at the same time, this means my renewal bill is under £1000 a year.

I've made a four figure sale every year for 10 years apart from 1 year.

Do you go for quantity over quality perhaps? I see lots of people on here building a portfolio of 500+ hand regs, and if they were more patient and put serious work in they could have built a portfolio of 100 good domains on the aftermarket over say 18 months and then had a portfolio they can afford to keep.

Pile them high sell them cheap is not a great strategy when two renewals destroys all profit.

Carefully building a small portfolio of commercially attractive domains makes more sense.

When registering ask this question....

"Who would buy this domain?".

If you can't identify 3 very obvious end users for a domain then don't acquire it. Or at least 1 that you are very confident will want to buy.

One flaw with hand regging is that if there was an obvious immediate buyer, wouldn't they have registered it? When buying expiring domains you could be picking something up which hasn't been available for registration for 10, 15, 20 years. You find domains where there has been a buyer coveting it for years! A good example below...

I bought LondonClock.com for about $30 a couple of years ago, because there was a business called London Clock with £5m in the bank (accounts are public in the UK). They were using LondonClock1988.com or something like that. It was previously used by a different business in the USA, it was 20 years old when it dropped..

It was obvious they were going to try and buy the domain for me, sold for $3000 within a few months.

Just blindly registered domains is just gambling, and gamblers don't very often make a profit. I'm not saying that you are one of those people, although you may be?

Its really hard work finding good domains at low prices on the aftermarket, and there's a lot of competition, it requires a lot of knowledge and skill, a hell of a lot of research... but that's domaining. I've bid for about 90 domains over the past 2 weeks, I've only won 4 of them, the rest went above my budget and I'm trying to be a value investor... I'll renew the 4 I won until a buyer comes, because I'm confident in the quality, that's the level of hard work and patience required.

Hand regging speculatively isn't really domaining, its gambling.

Better off acquiring 2 good domains per month for $30-$100 a piece from the aftermarket and slowly building a quality portfolio over a few years than any number of speculative hand regs.

Well Said!! This is the strategy I'm practicing, choosing quality over quantity for a long-term portfolio. Nice input.

 

[yoosuf]

I'd trust Brad's sense a lot more than mine!

I have a pretty good feel for what can sell for four figures, and I'm getting a bit of a feel for five figure names. I would say it's after three years thatI started feeling pretty confident. Probably would have happened more quickly if I had put more time in.

which aftermarket ?

 

[boker]

I have been a part of the domaining industry for quite some time now. And this is something strange when I look at many people making a terrific amount of sales and it has been 3 years and I haven't made a four-figure sale.

While there have been tonnes of low three-figure sales and that has been my focus, there have been exactly 0 sales in the four-figures as much as I recall. I need your help in diagnosis if you will. There could be three reasons for this, I believe:

1) I do not own the right names that sell for 4-figures - So, my strategy has always been to take up some names (like 20-30), which would sell for low to mid $$$ and close them, as much as possible.

2) I do not price the names right - I dip my feet deep into .CO as well, but major sales were in mid-3-figures only, with the platform taking a chunk of it and I remained with whatever was left, in bits-and-pieces.

3) I never renew my domains (not even 1) - A third thing that I believe is going wrong with me, is not renewing the domain for another year, looking at the trade-offs. I look at domaining in a short-term perspective maybe, which is why four-figures are not coming my way. I usually think of it this way:

-- You renew a domain for say $15 which may not sell for another year or the year after that, whereas in promos, you may end up getting 7 domains for the same cost. The chances of selling 1 out of these 7 is still high for me, since the risk is diversified. And hence, it makes sense to diversify the risk

-- Another thought process I have, when I see a domainer invest $2k for a single domain name, is that how can someone be so sure that it is a good investment??

I have two questions:

1) Help me diagnose the problem in my thought process and investment strategy so that I get in that four-figure league ( I make good money from domaining but never good sales)
2) Help me understand, what gives people confidence to renew a domain or acquire something for a $2k price?

This is my experience. I'm having lot's of xxx sales, but also some low xxxx as well, so my experience is a little bit different. The main thing is that you need to check, as others have pointed, if you are making enough profit at th end of the year from all your portofolio and not just individual sales. For example, I have never made less than xxxxx profit a year for the last 4 years, but I'm not selling for high numbers, I'm selling lower than the market, but with a higher STR and lot's of sales. I know others who are acquiring lot's of domains from the aftermarket, for high amounts, but some of them are still in the red or are just breaking even year by year. Depending on your strategy, you could make hundreds of xxx sales and make more money than somebody making a few xxxx or even some xxxxx sales. If you check the forum, you will meet domainers acquiring domains for like 1k and selling it for 5k-8k-15k. They are making high sales but also paying high prices for acquiring them. As the idea to check the value of your domains through others, it will be hard to find the perfect answer. There was a domainer couple of years ago, talking about one of his domains, that one time he needed money and tried to sell it for $500, but nobody wanted to buy it. Eventually, he borrowed or something and has switched the price of the domain from 'buy now' $500 to make offer and couple of weeks later it sold for 18k. That it's not happening often, but just the idea that is happening....means that nobody tell you the perfect price, for some companies could be worthless, for others could be gold. I can tell you one of my strategies for renewing: try to use multiple way to check all your domains value: views, inquiries, others people opinion, your feeling, social media testing and so on and at the end of the year renew the best 20% of your portofolio, drop the worst 20% of your portofolio and what's left, decide on an individual basis, based on your own profit in that particular year, if you renew and how many of the other one's. By doing this, after a few years of dropping at least 20% and keeping at least 20%, you will reach a point where your portofolio will be valuable enough so that you will struggle to drop even the worst 20%

 

[BrandPlease]

Honestly, I have had most of my 4 fig sales come from GD closeout finds. - the time it takes to search ( and have my own method.which sure all have one of their own), it well worth it. The time to negotiate for a name (now I don't want to say of = quality necessarily) I can can sell with in a 20% (up or down) spread is far more costly. Again, just my opinion and hope the info is helpful.

one more thought, until you feel comfortable valuing, try to find names 7 or less letters, that are real (in all senses of real - random is always random a 3 ltr word then 4 letters of nonsense is junk - even when short), & stick with com. GL

 

[Joe N]

which aftermarket ?

Do you mean which marketplace?

It doesn't really matter to me. I generally try to price my names with a BIN based on what I feel is the best use case (or the ideal end user) and am usually willing to negotiate down a bit.

 

[DomainGist]

If it's a GD closeout domain then it's maximum $11 plus registration fee, so about $20 total.

It takes time and patience to find them, but they're there.

Its becoming increasingly difficult to find good domains on closeouts, the expired auctions seem to very lively at the moment so I assume most are not reaching closeouts.

I did snag a really good one the other day though, looking forward to it hitting my account.

 

[topdom]

If you are making good money, why care about 4 figures. I haven't sold any domain for $ 765 or $ 1059 but I don't care. And although I consider myself professional, I'm not making any profit. (because I'm handregger at the moment, and not doing outbounding enough, and marketplaces are bad, and most buyers are flippers killing this business, and any earnings are reinvested).

 

[otismo]

I have owned domains for almost twenty years and have had only two sales.

I consider myself a hobbyist and an end-user/developer.

I am trying to begin to think like a domainer.

This thread has been very useful.

Thank You All Very Much !

P.S. cheap strategy - save your pennies and wait for the next NameCheap One Cent Sale !

 

[Joe N]

Its becoming increasingly difficult to find good domains on closeouts, the expired auctions seem to very lively at the moment so I assume most are not reaching closeouts.

I did snag a really good one the other day though, looking forward to it hitting my account.

I've only been at this for four years, but I find the quality of closeouts ebbs and flows. Pickings are a bit slimmer lately, though, I agree.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

OK I have never tried this personally, but I admire the people who go the route of finding names that are no longer being used by businesses or individuals, but not expired, so not competing in the expired auctions, and then try approaching them to see if they will do a private sale. It takes more than simply scouring closeout lists, expired auctions, or recent drops, but I suspect occasionally you are rewarded with outstanding names at great prices. As I say, I am not speaking from experience - have others on this list tried that strategy successfully?
Bob

 

[nabeel1988]

you comment on many appraisal posts appraising the domain and yet you price your own domains the wrong way.. That also sums up the wrong appraisal value you give to the posts you reply to.. I have not seen you appraise most domain above XXX figures, you underappraise others domains and underprice your own domains..

 

[lock]

If you out bound your clearing names if your holding your holding.

 

[bobo4us]

How many domains do you own?

I've never owned more than 100 domains at the same time, this means my renewal bill is under £1000 a year.

I've made a four figure sale every year for 10 years apart from 1 year.

Do you go for quantity over quality perhaps? I see lots of people on here building a portfolio of 500+ hand regs, and if they were more patient and put serious work in they could have built a portfolio of 100 good domains on the aftermarket over say 18 months and then had a portfolio they can afford to keep.

Pile them high sell them cheap is not a great strategy when two renewals destroys all profit.

Carefully building a small portfolio of commercially attractive domains makes more sense.

When registering ask this question....

"Who would buy this domain?".

If you can't identify 3 very obvious end users for a domain then don't acquire it. Or at least 1 that you are very confident will want to buy.

One flaw with hand regging is that if there was an obvious immediate buyer, wouldn't they have registered it? When buying expiring domains you could be picking something up which hasn't been available for registration for 10, 15, 20 years. You find domains where there has been a buyer coveting it for years! A good example below...

I bought LondonClock.com for about $30 a couple of years ago, because there was a business called London Clock with £5m in the bank (accounts are public in the UK). They were using LondonClock1988.com or something like that. It was previously used by a different business in the USA, it was 20 years old when it dropped..

It was obvious they were going to try and buy the domain for me, sold for $3000 within a few months.

Just blindly registered domains is just gambling, and gamblers don't very often make a profit. I'm not saying that you are one of those people, although you may be?

Its really hard work finding good domains at low prices on the aftermarket, and there's a lot of competition, it requires a lot of knowledge and skill, a hell of a lot of research... but that's domaining. I've bid for about 90 domains over the past 2 weeks, I've only won 4 of them, the rest went above my budget and I'm trying to be a value investor... I'll renew the 4 I won until a buyer comes, because I'm confident in the quality, that's the level of hard work and patience required.

Hand regging speculatively isn't really domaining, its gambling.

Better off acquiring 2 good domains per month for $30-$100 a piece from the aftermarket and slowly building a quality portfolio over a few years than any number of speculative hand regs.

this is deep. i learn new things here.

 

[marijuanadomain]

Domains are like me.
I am very easy and available BUT NOT CHEAP.
I Am expensive.

 

[abstractdomainer]

If it's a GD closeout domain then it's maximum $11 plus registration fee, so about $20 total.

It takes time and patience to find them, but they're there.

Ohh nice. Let me give it a try after having developed an eye

Experience. I did not start out buying domains in that range. I worked my way there.

I think you really need to work on the buy quality, and being willing to renew the quality domains.
The upside on registering whatever and not renewing anything is very limited.

It also doesn't give you much experience in domain valuation.

Brad

Makes sense! Thanks for the advice! This time, I am gonna renew some of my names.

I have owned domains for almost twenty years and have had only two sales.

I consider myself a hobbyist and an end-user/developer.

I am trying to begin to think like a domainer.

This thread has been very useful.

Thank You All Very Much !

P.S. cheap strategy - save your pennies and wait for the next NameCheap One Cent Sale !

What do they sell for 1 cent? .xyz?