Discuss your Epik Experience!

Rob Monster said:

Michael -- I was testing the new site. It just went live:

https://gab.com/epik/posts/102748072998376548

The domain was bought at NamePros earlier this year and we think the idea is worthy and timely. It is a work in progress but we have solid engineers working on it.

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For those who don't know the context of TrustRatings.com, it is worth knowing the backstory about why we embarked on this project.

There are two parts:

(1) Commercial: When Epik wanted to add TrustPilot seals on a large number of sites, we were quoted an outrageous price of $6000 per year for each site. For what? A single question poll that promotes someone else's brand. No thanks. We want to empower anyone to get feedback, be discovered and take authority over managing reputation.

(2) Philosophical: I have first-hand experience with reputation sabotage. Both my businesses and my wife's businesses have been targets of reputation sabotage since I took a reasonable stand on lawful free speech. Efforts to fix these issues at Yelp and Google in particular have been pointless exercises.

When it comes to reputation sabotage, and weaponization of the Internet, I should add that I have also seen this type of unaccountable nonsense play out with Wikipedia. I have called that nonsense out on Twitter as well:

https://twitter.com/robmonster/status/1160620833020293120

When it comes to dealing with nonsense, I generally try to constructively engage with the parties that practice nonsense. If a battle is required, I try to pick and sequence them so that there is a cohesive strategy. Where logic fails, entrepreneurship has a role to play.

Embrand said:

What a surprise. Rob Monster gives Epik (and his other company Sibyl) five stars in his review at his OWN new rating site TrustRatings that is implemented on all Epik landers and is a rip-off of TrustPilot. But he forgot to mention that he is the owner of both:

https://trustratings.com/users/5d6f4e6dd79f060159c90cf6

As usual, his employees have also been "invited" to do reviews there.

You couldn't make it up...

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LOL.

Rob Monster said:

For those who don't know the context of TrustRatings.com, it is worth knowing the backstory about why we embarked on this project.

There are two parts:

(1) Commercial: When Epik wanted to add TrustPilot seals on a large number of sites, we were quoted an outrageous price of $6000 per year for each site. For what? A single question poll that promotes someone else's brand. No thanks. We want to empower anyone to get feedback, be discovered and take authority over managing reputation.

(2) Philosophical: I have first-hand experience with reputation sabotage. Both my businesses and my wife's businesses have been targets of reputation sabotage since I took a reasonable stand on lawful free speech. Efforts to fix these issues at Yelp and Google in particular have been pointless exercises.

When it comes to reputation sabotage, and weaponization of the Internet, I should add that I have also seen this type of unaccountable nonsense play out with Wikipedia. I have called that nonsense out on Twitter as well:

https://twitter.com/robmonster/status/1160620833020293120

When it comes to dealing with nonsense, I generally try to constructively engage with the parties that engage in it. If a battle is required, I try to pick and sequence them so that there is a cohesive strategy. Where logic fails, entrepreneurship has a role to play. In other words, I don't tend to get mad. I get even. Lord-willing, it will happen.

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I think TrustRatings can become a great project if you manage to "bribe" some of the busiest websites out there to use it instead of TrustPilot. If a few big fish will use it, more smaller ones will follow. In the end no matter how large or small, any company would love to save $6k a year.

Rob Monster said:

(2) Philosophical: I have first-hand experience with reputation sabotage. Both my businesses and my wife's businesses have been targets of reputation sabotage since I took a reasonable stand on lawful free speech. Efforts to fix these issues at Yelp and Google in particular have been pointless exercises.

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So the answer is to start your own trust/reputation site that you control and give your own businesses top ratings?

loredan said:

I think TrustRatings can become a great project if you manage to "bribe" some of the busiest websites out there to use it instead of TrustPilot. If a few big fish will use it, more smaller ones will follow. In the end no matter how large or small, any company would love to save $6k a year.

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Thanks @loredan. Classy response.

You nailed one of the core issues. There is very little chance for a bootstrapping company in India, Pakistan, Philippines, or a ghetto in Detroit, that they are going to find $6000 per year to fund a feedback poll for their service. As such, they are excluded from something that is of strategic value in building trust on a relatively lawless internet.

TrustRatings.com will have a very lean cost structure, using AI and Software to maintain integrity in the voting and feedback process. As context, some of the same technology that mitigates credit card fraud is being applied to detect and prevent ballot stuffing.

We are also working to integrate financial data from reputable sources as another trust vector, similar to how credit bureaus and bond rating agencies use data and algorithms to predict the trust/resiliency of a particular financial instrument or institution.

This is going to be a journey. For now, it is running as a division of Epik but we might spin it out into another entity, e.g. Swiss Foundation or other legal structure that is well suited to the mission.

There is one thing I am certain about and that it is needed. The decision to become a registrar in 2011 was actually prompted by this incident:

https://epik.com/blog/bob-parsons-tear-down-your-privacy-wall.html

It was on that day that I concluded that Godaddy would not be the last word in the world of registrars and that alternatives should ultimately emerge. They are. Similar story here. TrustPilot could be empowering humanity, but instead they are playing the familiar Silicon Valley tune and are milking a cow all the way to the bank.

We recently secured a domain called SignDeck.com for use for a Docusign alternative. That project is under way. It too will change the economic model to being one that is universally inclusive -- anyone can get a digital signature and participate, not just rich people and companies with big budgets.

Rob Monster said:

TrustRatings.com will have a very lean cost structure, using AI and Software to maintain integrity in the voting and feedback process. As context, some of the same technology that mitigates credit card fraud is being applied to detect and prevent ballot stuffing.

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What are you doing to remove the perception of conflict of interest on TrustRatings that your businesses are getting top ratings, and any less than positive ratings are deleted, because you own and control the site.

Rob Monster said:

TrustRatings.com will have a very lean cost structure, using AI and Software to maintain integrity in the voting and feedback process. As context, some of the same technology that mitigates credit card fraud is being applied to detect and prevent ballot stuffing.

We are also working to integrate financial data from reputable sources as another trust vector, similar to how credit bureaus and bond rating agencies use data and algorithms to predict the trust/resiliency of a particular financial instrument or institution.

This is going to be a journey. For now, it is running as a division of Epik but we might spin it out into another entity, e.g. Swiss Foundation or other legal structure that is well suited to the mission.

There is one thing I am certain about and that it is needed. The decision to become a registrar in 2011 was actually prompted by this incident:

https://epik.com/blog/bob-parsons-tear-down-your-privacy-wall.html

It was on that day that I concluded that Godaddy would not be the last word in the world of registrars and that alternatives should ultimately emerge. They are. Similar story here. TrustPilot could be empowering humanity, but instead they are playing the familiar Silicon Valley tune and are milking a cow all the way to the bank.

We recently secured a domain called SignDeck.com for use for a Docusign alternative. That project is under way. It too will change the economic model to being one that is universally inclusive -- anyone can get a digital signature and participate, not just rich people and companies with big budgets.

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All the projects are worth while and I am glad you are willing and able to make a stand and put some of your treasure behind the ventures.

If developed and run properly, each one could/would be financially self sustaining in a short time whether under the Epik umbrella or spun out.

It's a shame, really. Until recently, I planned to move most of my domains over to Epik. Because they do indeed have many great things, which I have already praised them for:

- great user interface
- good prices
- many TLDs
- very good support
- good options for sellling domains
- active staff here at NamePros

That is what makes it even more difficult to understand why Rob:

- cancelled my outgoing wire transfer after selling a name at Epik
- disclosed at NamePros both what name I had sold and what name I then bought at Epik after my wire transfer was cancelled
- insinuated that a NamePros member has Nazi ancestors (it seems that post has been deleted)
- continues to allow privacy for .in domains even though they know the registry does not allow it
- steals large company TrustPilot's entire design

I have 15 low-value names left at Epik and will move them out when possible.

I wish Rob Monster all the best with his many, many projects.

TCK said:

So the answer is to start your own trust/reputation site that you control and give your own businesses top ratings?

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It is actually a level playing field. I offer the same courtesy to anyone. I have no administrator privileges on that service. I am not sure I will ever request them precisely for the reason you are raising here.

In short, if you are stuffing the ballot, the algorithm will detect it and will weight your poll responses with a lower weight until you verify your identity, which is is double-blind from the person being rated.

Again, this is a journey. I have made a career out of (1) listening to my critics, (2) separating the wheat from the chaff, and (3) turning lemons into lemonade. So, by all means, rip that product to shreds. We will be listening to your feedback.

Rob Monster said:

It is actually a level playing field. I offer the same courtesy to anyone. I have no administrator privileges on that service. I am not sure I will ever request them precisely for the reason you are raising here.

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So everyone has to take your word for it. The perception of conflict of interest persists. You need to remove it if you want TrustRatings to ever carry any weight.

Embrand said:

It's a shame, really. Until recently, I planned to move most of my domains over to Epik. Because they do indeed have many great things, which I have already praised them for:

- great user interface
- good prices
- many TLDs
- very good support
- good options for sellling domains
- active staff here at NamePros

That is what makes it even more difficult to understand why Rob:

- cancelled my outgoing wire transfer after selling a name at Epik
- disclosed at NamePros both what name I had sold and what name I then bought at Epik after my wire transfer was cancelled
- insinuated that a NamePros member has Nazi ancestors (it seems that post has been deleted)
- continues to use privacy for .in domains even though they know the registry does not allow it
- steals large company TrustPilot's entire design

I have 15 low-value names left at Epik and will move them out when possible.

I wish Rob Monster all the best with his many, many projects.

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Thanks @Embrand.

I addressed your concern here and you acknowledged that the summary is factually correct. I call it a success story but for each his own.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/if...g-time-and-money.1119508/page-10#post-7346765

As for the whole Nazi thing, I am obviously not that. The point I was making is that anyone can be accused ignorantly. It is touched upon here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/wh...and-rob-monster.1128748/page-102#post-7384014

Best wishes.

TCK said:

So everyone has to take your word for it. The perception of conflict of interest persists. You need to remove it if you want TrustRatings to ever carry any weight.

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TrustRatings will eventually have a dedicated management team, and probably an independent structure for management, finances and governance. We are efficiently incubating it at Epik because we perceive a gap in the market.

For perspective, we did the same thing with Armored.net for cloud storage. There is not much controversy there yet but as it starts drawing folks away from Dropbox, it may become the target of vilification from the Silicon Valley puppetmasters.

Rob Monster said:

TrustRatings will eventually have a dedicated management team, and probably an independent structure for management, finances and governance. We are efficiently incubating it at Epik because we perceive a gap in the market.

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If you are incubating TrustRatings, you should leave any mention of Epik out of the ratings until it is under an independent management team that will not skew or edit ratings in favor of Epik.

TCK said:

If you are incubating TrustRatings, you should leave any mention of Epik out of the ratings until it is under an independent management team that will not skew or edit ratings in favor of Epik.

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Well, when we went to production on Friday morning, I did a test, there was a bug when we cleared out all the test ratings. It looked like this:



I am not an admin, but we'll get my reviews removed as soon as there are a few hundred reviews. I did not it want it to be empty when I invited the Gab folks to use it.

Hopefully we get 100+ reviews this weekend. We'll be in a public alpha for the next 3 weeks while we finish the business tools.

Some of the site copy is being updated. The legal review was not done, so we have some placeholder content there now.

“TrustRatings” best name, sounds better than Trustpilot.

Good luck, Rob!

Xabial said:

“TrustRatings” best name, sounds better than Trustpilot.

Good luck, Rob!

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I loved the domain -- bought it from a NamePros member in a multi-domain deal. It was bought for this specific idea.

The other domain that came with that deal was HighCouture.com. I would happily sell that one but I liked the sound of it.

Another successful transaction with Epik Marketplace, the buyer is extremely happy and I was expedited crypto payout the same HOUR. It's been a slow few months for sales, this helps tremendously. The SSL landers are worth their bits in coin, buyer had no issues navigating and making payment. Rob as usual, goes above and beyond for us, I am very grateful for his service.

It's a Saturday afternoon, for anyone reading this after the fact.

Totally unheard of in this industry to encounter a company this dedicated to adding value, true value!

DanSanchez said:

Another successful transaction with Epik Marketplace, the buyer is extremely happy and I was expedited crypto payout the same HOUR. It's been a slow few months for sales, this helps tremendously. The SSL landers are worth their bits in coin, buyer had no issues navigating and making payment. Rob as usual, goes above and beyond for us, I am very grateful for his service.

It's a Saturday afternoon, for anyone reading this after the fact.

Totally unheard of in this industry to encounter a company this dedicated to adding value, true value!

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This was a multi-4 figure domain sale through our marketplace. The buyer used PayPal. The seller redeemed Masterbucks to BTC. The whole process did take less than 1 hour.

Here is why it worked well:

- The seller is known at Epik

- The seller has a portfolio at Epik.

Although we did not know the buyer, we trust the seller which allows us to bypass manual fraud review of a new buyer.

Rob Monster said:

Although we did not know the buyer, we trust the seller which allows us to bypass manual fraud review of a new buyer.

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How does knowing the seller mean that the buyer it automatically trusted and doesn't need a fraud review? Those are 2 very different unrelated parties. It may have worked that time but you are taking a risk.

TCK said:

How does knowing the seller mean that the buyer it automatically trusted and doesn't need a fraud review? Those are 2 very different unrelated parties. It may have worked that time but you are taking a risk.

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The buyer has purchased from me using Escrow.com in the past, he owns an agency and his Paypal is business verified. The risk is very limited given the domain is worth WAY more than what he paid and it is locked at Epik for at least 60 days. Finally the buyer is very impressed with Epik and seems to want to transfer his domains there permanently from Godaddy.

TCK said:

How does knowing the seller mean that the buyer it automatically trusted and doesn't need a fraud review? Those are 2 very different unrelated parties. It may have worked that time but you are taking a risk.

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The seller knows the buyer.

See "Friend of a Friend":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_of_a_friend

It is a way to build out trust networks.

And as we can see, it pays to make leaps of faith:

DanSanchez said:

Finally the buyer is very impressed with Epik and seems to want to transfer his domains there permanently from Godaddy.

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I did the same thing for a Nigerian back in July:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/th...most-lost-sale-and-how-we-overcame-it.1139281

And now we have nearly 500 clients in Nigeria. That growth largely came off the back of one leap of faith.

Two years ago our largest client was a wealthy Qatari. Everything about that deal looked shady but I trusted my gut and he ended up being a huge client.

I try very hard to treat people as individuals. It takes a lot more work but it pays out in the end. This is also the reason so many Epik staff are active on NP now.

Epik is built on the model of a Swiss Bank. That is not so much a statement of privacy, but more of a statement of relationship banking. Epik is a domain bank.

DanSanchez said:

The buyer has purchased from me using Escrow.com in the past, he owns an agency and his Paypal is business verified. The risk is very limited given the domain is worth WAY more than what he paid and it is locked at Epik for at least 60 days. Finally the buyer is very impressed with Epik and seems to want to transfer his domains there permanently from Godaddy.

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In this case, Rob should have phrased it differently.

Rob Monster said:

Although we did not know the buyer, we trust the seller which allows us to bypass manual fraud review of a new buyer.

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If what you state is accurate, then the above quote should have indicated that the buyer was verified or at least known to Epik via previous communication and transaction history (Escrow.com) verified by Epik. Since Rob did not confirm this, again we are going by hearsay. The price vs value argument is moot.

TCK said:

In this case, Rob should have phrased it differently.



If what you state is accurate, then the above quote should have indicated that the seller was verified or at least known to Epik via previous communication and transaction history (Escrow.com) verified by Epik. Since Rob did not confirm this, again we are going by hearsay. The price vs value argument is moot.

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You are assuming that an agency owner would commit fraud for a relatively small amount of money, lose his domain to Epik and I would keep the proceeds, which would risk thousands of domains at Epik.

The advantages of Epik keep this a low-risk transaction, they hold all the domains. Perhaps you are used to dealing with Escrow.com, like I was.

It is refreshing to see a true escrow in the works, isn't it?

DanSanchez said:

You are assuming that an agency owner would commit fraud for a relatively small amount of money, lose his domain to Epik and I would keep the proceeds, which would risk thousands of domains at Epik.

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No not at all. I believe in "trust but verify". If the buyer had a history with you then the verify part would be very quick and simple.

DanSanchez said:

The advantages of Epik keep this a low-risk transaction, they hold all the domains. Perhaps you are used to dealing with Escrow.com, like I was.

It is refreshing to see a true escrow in the works, isn't it?

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To be clear, this is not "escrow". This is a basic marketplace transaction. You can do this on your own without Epik or anyone else.

TCK said:

No not at all. I believe in "trust but verify". If the buyer had a history with you then the verify part would be very quick and simple.



To be clear, this is not "escrow". This is a basic marketplace transaction. You can do this on your own without Epik or anyone else.

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It absolutely is "escrow" when two parties need a third party to facilitate a deal.

Definition of Escrow:
Money, property, a deed, or a bond put into the custody of a third party for delivery to a grantee only after the fulfillment of the conditions specified.

Epik facilitated the deal and over-delivered for me. That is my whole point. No other company is doing this!

And I do handle some sales on my own website using BTCPay Server. This buyer was not familiar with bitcoin. I personally do not accept US Dollars anymore for several reasons.