advice IP Address Got Blacklisted By Doing Outbound Marketing - Help!

FavourB said:

If only Y'all that called this spam read line by line and purely know the definition of Spam,
You would definitely know he dind't Spam
The 50 emails was not in 24 hrs, there was interval,
It wasn't grouped it was personal mail to different client with different niche

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Thanks for reading my post in detail. Most of the people commenting have failed to do this basic task before posting!

xynames said:

As with most of your posts you seem to have it all figured out. Really a winning attitude.

Consider my posts in this thread for others you’re evidently not interested in any posts that conflict with what you’ve already decided is true. So, why even ask?

Good luck with that spam!

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The problem with your posts is that you are making assumptions left, right & center without reading my posts where I've clarified all the points. On top of that you seem to have a basic bias against outbound by equating that as a synonym for spamming!

This tread is for figuring out my mistakes rather than to gain outbound marketing converts.

So move along if you can't differentiate between outbound & spamming & have nothing constructive to say.

I’m not making any assumptions. I’ve seen your emails! You perhaps forget that you spam me with your domains too. I’ve received at least a dozen unsolicited messages or emails from you offering your domains. I haven’t reported them because you and I have a prior (from a long time ago) business relationship and your emails don’t bother me really.

But the domains you’ve offered me are let’s face it extremely low end and offered within your spam pitch as comparable to this vast set of domains you list that sold for large sums when in reality your domains aren’t in the same league whatsoever. To me, the comparisons you make are not bothersome. To others, evidently it has moved them to such annoyance that you’d dare waste their time by claiming that your domains compare to the long lists of quality ones you mention that they’ve reported your spam.

You’re not going to change anything so why waste all of our time asking. You’re really no different from the emperor with no clothes searching for subjects who will tell him that he’s clothed.

xynames said:

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If there’s a problem here it’s with you not us - you’re wasting our time with a thread that seeks advice then ignores it. We’d ask that you move along - and stop spamming.

Or if you’re not going to stop at least spare us the bit about how you’re not spamming. Save that losing argument for your ISP. You may tell us - hey this is what I must do but don’t insult our intelligence by claiming that it’s not spam.

Unsolicited email is technically spam. End of story. It takes just one - only one - report to shut you down. Arguing as you’re doing doesn’t change the fact that you’ve been tagged for spamming so obviously both recipient and your ISP believe that you have spammed.

Your argument is illogical. You’ve been tagged for spamming with a sustained spam report and yet you doggedly repeat that you don’t spam.

I am sick and tired of domainers spamming me I am not a lawyer but as far as i'm concerned anyone I have not had a business relationship with who send me unsolicited emails to buy their domain is spamming me. That was always my understanding on what spam is and I don't care if it isn't. I must get 30+ emails every day spamming the living daylights out of me and i'm sick of it already. It has gotten much worse lately and many of these somehow end up in my inbox and bypass gmail spam filters.

Thank you @xynames for your advice on spamcop.net I think I should make this part of my regular routine to report when i'm spammed every time, maybe just maybe the spam will lighten a bit if I do this and these idiots from certain locations which I won't mention publicly will be taken down till they realise it isn't worth their time and effort.

howudoin8 said:

First Off, I'm not spamming!

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According to the US government, yes, you are, and it's illegal:

CAN-SPAM, a direct response of the growing number of complaints over spam e-mails,[6] defines a "commercial electronic mail message" as "any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose)." It exempts "transactional or relationship messages." The FTC issued final rules[7] (16 C.F.R. 316) clarifying the phrase "primary purpose" on December 16, 2004. Previous state laws had used bulk (a number threshold), content (commercial), or unsolicited to define spam.

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Note that:

• Emails need not be sent in bulk to be considered spam.
• Even if sending in bulk were a prerequisite, bulk indicates quantity, not how the emails are sent.
• Your emails are not transactional.
• Your emails are unsolicited.
• Your emails are commercial in nature.

Furthermore, CAN-SPAM only defines spam in the eyes of the US government; spammer blacklists are free to use their own definitions and are often stricter.

If you send unsolicited commercial email, you're going to get blacklisted. That's just the way it is. You could invest resources in evading these blacklists, but doing so may not be legal.

Edit/Note: Even if you don't reside in the US, if recipients are within the US, there is still a risk of the US government attempting to enforce it, in much the same way that the EU attempts to enforce privacy laws like GDPR on entities outside the EU:

On April 1, 2006, Mounir Balarbi, of Tangier, Morocco, was the first person outside the United States to have an arrest warrant validated under the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Mounir's trial was held in absentia, and he was sentenced in a closed session.[27][30]

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Furthermore, you're almost certainly in violation of Gmail's Terms of Service/Acceptable Use Policy/whatever they have, and these reports do make their way back to Google. The most likely outcome from this, should you choose to continue, is that your Google account will be suspended. Anytime anyone reports an email as spam--that is, when you click that Mark as Spam button in your inbox--a slew of reports are sent out. That's how you wound up blacklisted, and Google is keeping track of reports against your account. If you have anything important attached to that account, now's a good time to make backups.

Adding an unsubscribe link won't help. You'll still be in violation of CAN-SPAM, you'll still receive reports against you, and you'll still get blacklisted.

@joro001 is right about CAN-SPAM act. It's actually stricter than most blacklists are.

Usually blacklists concider something spam if it meets both requirements:
A) it's unsolicited.
B) it's sent in bulk.

Here's the tricky part. You think you are not sending in bulk. Different mails, non automated. Now let's take alook at what spamhaus (not their biggest fan but that's worth a whole different thread) defines as bulk: "Bulk means that the message is sent as part of a larger collection of messages, all having substantively identical content."

So... In your scenario:
A) check
B) check

NameDeck said:

@joro001 is right about CAN-SPAM act. It's actually stricter than most blacklists are.

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That’s not true. Blacklists act on reports, and people report emails they don’t want. Unwanted emails may be perfectly legal under CAN-SPAM. It doesn’t take a lot of reports to end up on a blacklist.

In reality, it’s a little more complex than that; many of the reports are automated and come from honeypots. But the same premise applies: you’re sending a message to an address you harvested, perhaps from an outdated list, leads you purchased, or historic addresses/contact info for a domain. Harvesting addresses is going to result in honeypots, which are going to result in reports, which are going to result in blacklisting.

The concept of detecting and dropping bulk spam is actually relatively new and has really been pioneered by Google. Your average blacklist isn’t focusing on that; they’ll act on a single report.

Paul Buonopane said:

According to the US government, yes, you are, and it's illegal:

CAN-SPAM, a direct response of the growing number of complaints over spam e-mails,[6] defines a "commercial electronic mail message" as "any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose)." It exempts "transactional or relationship messages." The FTC issued final rules[7] (16 C.F.R. 316) clarifying the phrase "primary purpose" on December 16, 2004. Previous state laws had used bulk (a number threshold), content (commercial), or unsolicited to define spam.

Click to expand...

Note that:

• Emails need not be sent in bulk to be considered spam.
• Even if sending in bulk were a prerequisite, bulk indicates quantity, not how the emails are sent.
• Your emails are not transactional.
• Your emails are unsolicited.
• Your emails are commercial in nature.

Furthermore, CAN-SPAM only defines spam in the eyes of the US government; spammer blacklists are free to use their own definitions and are often stricter.

If you send unsolicited commercial email, you're going to get blacklisted. That's just the way it is. You could invest resources in evading these blacklists, but doing so may not be legal.

Edit/Note: Even if you don't reside in the US, if recipients are within the US, there is still a risk of the US government attempting to enforce it, in much the same way that the EU attempts to enforce privacy laws like GDPR on entities outside the EU:

On April 1, 2006, Mounir Balarbi, of Tangier, Morocco, was the first person outside the United States to have an arrest warrant validated under the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Mounir's trial was held in absentia, and he was sentenced in a closed session.[27][30]

Click to expand...

Furthermore, you're almost certainly in violation of Gmail's Terms of Service/Acceptable Use Policy/whatever they have, and these reports do make their way back to Google. The most likely outcome from this, should you choose to continue, is that your Google account will be suspended. Anytime anyone reports an email as spam--that is, when you click that Mark as Spam button in your inbox--a slew of reports are sent out. That's how you wound up blacklisted, and Google is keeping track of reports against your account. If you have anything important attached to that account, now's a good time to make backups.

Adding an unsubscribe link won't help. You'll still be in violation of CAN-SPAM, you'll still receive reports against you, and you'll still get blacklisted.

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Paul Buonopane said:

That’s not true. Blacklists act on reports, and people report emails they don’t want. Unwanted emails may be perfectly legal under CAN-SPAM. It doesn’t take a lot of reports to end up on a blacklist.

In reality, it’s a little more complex than that; many of the reports are automated and come from honeypots. But the same premise applies: you’re sending a message to an address you harvested, perhaps from an outdated list, leads you purchased, or historic addresses/contact info for a domain. Harvesting addresses is going to result in honeypots, which are going to result in reports, which are going to result in blacklisting.

The concept of detecting and dropping bulk spam is actually relatively new and has really been pioneered by Google. Your average blacklist isn’t focusing on that; they’ll act on a single report.

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You're right of course. What I meant was that as per the CAN-SPAM act it's not a requirement to be flagged as bulk/mass mail in order to be concidered spam thus I concider it to be more strict.

Like you said blacklists are report based so the average small-time spammer is more likely to end up on a blacklist than he is to suffer punishment by the CAN-SPAM act.

I wouldn't say that the concept of reporting and dropping spam is relatively new though. I've been running honeypots for ages to contribute to the cause and there have been blacklists available eversince I can remember to help filtering out spam.

I do agree Google is (probably) the first (and the most effective) that got to the point where they produced a highly efficient algorithm to filter email. You gotta give it to them, they do tend to keep your inbox nice and clean.

Handling email got complicated over the years. Back in the day it wasn't that hard to run your own mailservers. Nowadays you're better off leaving it to the pros.

As we're on subject, I know NP doesn't allow it's users to spam, that's a great policy. Well thought-out. Yet, here we are on a forum openly debating (in a lot of threads) the best way to do outbound and we seem to be ok with that? We applaud people making good sales through outbound yet anyone sane agrees it's no better than sending spam to flog Viagra pills. Not wanna derail this too much but just some food for thought and something to keep in mind next time you/we encounter one of those threads.

Years ago I sent one email to about 5 people. Then some evil people from my university forced me to sign a paper which said "I won't spam again..", although I used an anonymous email. I signed it after some modification, because I knew some evil creatures were trying to block my overall progress...after two months that handreg .biz was sold for 4 figures (and for even higher price by new owners), so this is a proof that I was not spamming (, and this also proves that it is not the case that some good guys who were aware of the situation, and bought the domain to help me, because it was sold for multiples higher after a short period of time; yes probably there were good guys who tried to protect me from such evils, but not in this story).

I've done it before but at least I have the decency to admit that it's undeniably spam.

I am sending messages to people who mostly do not want to receive them. They have the right to feel annoyed by me. I respect that.

Saying that it's outbound marketing and decidedly not spam is like when a thief says ''but at least I don't kill people''.

topdom said:

my university

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+

topdom said:

<snipped> so this is a proof that I was not spamming

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So you attended university and that was your conclusion?

Someone can report you and then you will be punished automatically? If this is the case, then some spammers will report innocent messages to make this system not work.

NameDeck said:

+


So you attended university and that was your conclusion?

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Conclusion:

-There are evil entities, even in universities, who invent excuses just to do some harm, such as limiting freedoms.

- Something which is obviously not spam can be blamed for being spam, and you may be in trouble because of it.

-Don't use your employer's ISP for outbounding.

(it may be the case that they were good guys, and they just suspected that I could do such a thing in large scale, and get reported often, and hurt university's reputation, but this is a very unlikely scenario. )

NameDeck said:

I wouldn't say that the concept of reporting and dropping spam is relatively new though. I've been running honeypots for ages to contribute to the cause and there have been blacklists available eversince I can remember to help filtering out spam.

I do agree Google is (probably) the first (and the most effective) that got to the point where they produced a highly efficient algorithm to filter email. You gotta give it to them, they do tend to keep your inbox nice and clean.

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I meant that the concept of detecting and dropping bulk spam is new, not spam in general. Honeypots are an old concept, but Google was the first to effectively look for correlations without relying on reports.

topdom said:

Conclusion:

-There are evil entities, even in universities, who invent excuses just to do some harm, such as limiting freedoms.

- Something which is obviously not spam can be blamed for being spam, and you may be in trouble because of it.

-Don't use your employer's ISP for outbounding.

(it may be the case that they were good guys, and they just suspected that I could do such a thing in large scale, and get reported often, and hurt university's reputation, but this is a very unlikely scenario. )

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It's because it IS a bad thing. The viagra selling guy also thinks he's doing nothing wrong.

1 unsolicited mail is still spam, whether you agree on that or not.

That being said, you can still do it, just use proxies/VPS/Ns. Of course a university doesn't want their reputation tarnished by spammers. It's strange that you don't realize this.

topdom said:

Conclusion:

-There are evil entities, even in universities, who invent excuses just to do some harm, such as limiting freedoms.

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As they should.

topdom said:

Conclusion:
- Something which is obviously not spam can be blamed for being spam, and you may be in trouble because of it.

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Theoretically, yes. However reports contain additional info to check for validity of the reported spam.

topdom said:

Conclusion:

-Don't use your employer's ISP for outbounding.

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Better yet, don't do outbound in your employers time or use their facilities for your sidegigs.

By sending bulk/spam you hurt your employers/University ip reputation. It takes a lot of time and effort (read money) to clean that up. They are right to limit you to fair use of their network.

Lord Antares said:

That being said, you can still do it, just use proxies/VPS/Ns.

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There are entire datacenters dedicated to spam and evading spam detection. Once you get into deliberate evasion (and making a business out of it), various three-letter agencies get involved. It's amazing how many e-criminals have been caught because of their spam efforts. Viagra must be lucrative!

At the end of the day, if someone doesn't want your emails, they're spam, and they're going to get reported as such. You don't have to agree with it, but that's the way it is.

If definition of spam is made too broad, then not all spam is bad.

topdom said:

If definition of spam is made too broad, then not all spam is bad.

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Not bad for you because it doesn't hurt you. If you send 100 emails and one of the recipients is interested, 99 others are still hassled and you're being a dick in their eyes.

Now, I agree that there are various degrees of spam ''badness''.
You absolutely cannot compare a scammer/phisher with someone selling domains. Nevertheless, they are both technically spam; one is mildly bad and one is very bad.

You just have to learn to live with the fact that you're doing a mildly bad thing and be okay with it. Don't blame others for not liking your methods.

Lord Antares said:

Not bad for you because it doesn't hurt you. If you send 100 emails and one of the recipients is interested, 99 others are still hassled and you're being a dick in their eyes.

Now, I agree that there are various degrees of spam ''badness''.
You absolutely cannot compare a scammer/phisher with someone selling domains. Nevertheless, they are both technically spam; one is mildly bad and one is very bad.

You just have to learn to live with the fact that you're doing a mildly bad thing and be okay with it. Don't blame others for not liking your methods.

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The chances of actually being investigated at low volume are probably fairly low. The biggest risk for most people is their email provider cutting them off; in the case of Gmail, that’d mean the loss of your whole Google account, which could be devastating.

That being said, it’s still illegal; even if it weren’t, blacklists can mostly do what they please. If a blacklist decides they don’t like the messages, your email address, domain, or IP address are likely to be blacklisted. Maybe that’s a risk you’re willing to take, maybe it isn’t, but there’s nothing you can do to prevent it that doesn’t also increase your chances of showing up on a federal agency’s radar.

So, to answer your original concern: getting removed from the blacklist isn’t going to help much; you’re just going to end up back on it. It is what it is, like it or not. And the existence of laws like CAN-SPAM means that if you do go far enough out of your way to circumvent blacklists, you risk jail time.

For you is outbound marketing, for me just spam

johnnie018 said:

Funny man, you convince yourself of this?...shame. You send bulk email and now your IP is blocked! OK not spammer! Definitely not spammer! Inncoent! Big mistake make by spamhaus!

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Solution..create a market an ad a help chat...now you have no problem.

gipson said:

Solution..create a market an ad a help chat...now you have no problem.

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Yes, this person is bad spammer, probably sending thousands of email. Wonder how many of Namepros member get spam from howudoin8.

check this, i get a spam email from TalentDomains.com offer me a list of domain for sale. from where hi get that information ?.. well, I assume that from here in NP

This is the whois of one of his domain

and assume is this NP user :: https://www.namepros.com/members/sukhvir.72076/

gipson said:

check this, i get a spam email from TalentDomains.com offer me a list of domain for sale. from where hi get that information ?.. well, I assume that from here in NP

This is the whois of one of his domain

and assume is this NP user :: https://www.namepros.com/members/sukhvir.72076/

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Loving the FAQ: https://talentdomains.com/faq/