Sadly domaining is real negative versus its hey-days, imo. Do you agree?

namemarket · Dec 23, 2018

IMO the domain market is becoming more and more diverse with .com slowly but surely losing stature as time goes by, except for a few .com categories such as single word product and company names like Ring.com Brew,com and others, and important 2 word com's such as creditcards.con for example. In those categories .com is by far the king.

Starting in 2015 and getting much worse by 2016 my own sales and inquiries dropped big time. In fact, my sale inquiries are down over 90% in past few years, which portfolio consists of most all .com and .org names. That 90% plus decline is in spite of my sales techniques being significantly improved and better vs a few years ago.

Actually my wife first talked about this subject a few years ago when she looked at a GoDaddy reg page saying to me why would a buyer ask about your name when it is mid 3 min offer and they see dozens of low cost options recommended on the GD screen, including lots of unreg'd new extensions.

She went on saying stuff like why would anyone offer you $xxx and pay maybe $x,xxx when they can buy the unreg'd dot-net or .org for $14.95 or a host of new extensions for prices ranging down to under $10.

Then her statement quickly hit home hard as I lost several big sales to new extensions sold at lower cost vs my .com or org. For example, a mid-size bank wanted to buy their EMD acronym name but after lots of time and negotiations in mid 4-fig range they ended up reg'ing a .new bank ext instead. After that I lost a few more to other extensions which the buyers likely found on the GD page, mostly new ext but even to a .biz. Most losses went unexplained but upon digging it was sometimes discovered why they did not buy.

Think about it, if you are new in business, a ma and pa store or low on funds why make a 3 figure offer and get a counter-offer in 5 figures when there's dozens of low cost options on Godaddy page available for immediate buying with no negotiations and much lower prices?

You can make a website just as easily on a non-com and I am fairly sure Google will rank you based on your SEO ability, not based on your domain extension. Later on if you become successful you can then try to buy the preferred dot-com For decades type-in traffic was said to be a main reason for dot-com but truth is type-ins are down significantly over past several years so that's no longer a major reason for owning the .com

All that paints a poor picture and bad outlook for many domainers, myself included, and a reason I am sadly bearish on this business now. Even website traffic seems way down except to the huge amazon-like websites, for various reasons, I will not cover at this time, not to mention PPC parking revenue being down a truly staggering 95% over past 8 years or so! In fact, ppc is so bad I don't bother to park my domains anymore except for a few.

equity78 · Dec 23, 2018

The number one problem with threads like these is we don't know the names someone owns that is lamenting the fall of domaining.

Over the years, I have read many people who talk about the business being in decline and imply in some way they have domains that were worthy of being registered and more importantly resold for a premium above registration fee.

offthehandle said:
The Namejet Auction at Namescon should be a barometer of wholesale values if they meet reserve, or remain unsold, increase or decrease. Looks like something is going on like a portfolio liquidation as there are some really nice one word names this year.

He is not liquidating he explained to @EJS that he just looks at it as free exposure, where he can't lose.

“There’s a big difference between auctioning a domain with a reserve price and one without. All of the domains I listed have a minimum reserve price which means I can’t lose.

The auction will drum up a ton of exposure and could potentially bring in buyers that I haven’t been able to reach on my own.”

https://domaininvesting.com/brent-oxley-lists-valuable-domain-names-in-namescon-auction/

Kate · Dec 23, 2018

namemarket said:
For example, a mid-size bank wanted to buy their EMD acronym name but after lots of time and negotiations in mid 4-fig range they ended up reg'ing a .new bank ext instead.

Wow.
I think it is pretty serious matter for a bank not to own the .com - just think of the sensitive, misdirected E-mail.

namemarket said:
After that I lost a few more to other extensions which the buyers likely found on the GD page, mostly new ext but even to a .biz.

Wow.
I think you are not attracting the right kind of buyers here, these people clearly don't value domain names very much.

namemarket said:
Think about it, if you are new in business, a ma and pa store or low on funds why make a 3 figure offer and get a counter-offer in 5 figures when there's dozens of low cost options on Godaddy page available for immediate buying with no negotiations and much lower prices?

That's what everybody has always been doing. Domainers too. Sales are the exception, not the norm.

I am certainly biased as a domainer but I understand that if you have a great name you are one step ahead of your competitors, even if you are the latest kid on the block. Companies with great names look more credible and professional. Names that are difficult to spell don't look good on business cards. And it is a pain to spell an E-mail address over the phone. For me it is a question of self-respect.

namemarket said:
You can make a website just as easily on a non-com and I am fairly sure Google will rank you based on your SEO ability, not based on your domain extension.

Yes sure you can.
But when you are going to advertise your business you need a good name, a name that is memorable, preferably not too long and without unnecessary appendices like hyphens, numbers, abbreviations etc

namemarket said:
Later on if you become successful you can then try to buy the preferred dot-com For decades type-in traffic was said to be a main reason for dot-com but truth is type-ins are down significantly over past several years so that's no longer a major reason for owning the .com

Some names are easier to type. Just think of the number of people now using mobile devices with touch screens and virtual keyboards. If they see an interesting but difficult URL they will still be too lazy to type it in.
In my opinion, good domain names have become more valuable, not less

I think domaining has actually become more difficult, because there is more competition and it's now more difficult to acquire good names without paying end user prices. But the market is healthy, sales are happening every day. At the same time I don't think demand from consumers has increased a lot, so the pie has to be shared with more people.
There is money flowing around, but few people getting regular revenue.

As said above, you cannot rely on whois alone to bring you buyers. Buying domain names has never been a smooth process for end users anyway. We need to make it easy, use proper lander pages, set up payment integration, automate things. It should be as easy as buying a handreg. It's easier if you are willing to set a BIN, then your domain names can be integrated in the registrar MLS too.

namemarket · Dec 23, 2018

Kate said:
Wow.
I think it is pretty serious matter for a bank not to own the .com - just think of the sensitive, misdirected E-mail.....

Maybe it was not clear, it was an acronym and commonly used name in their rebranding by the midsize bank such as (example and similar name) OSNB.com meaning Ohio State National Bank. If it was the banks real name I am sure they would have filed a wipo or worse. Last I recall I was down to 6k when they opted for OSNB.bank

I did (and still get) site visitors looking for the bank and I am sure emails too if I had email enabled. The bank did not care, all they cared about was it being unfair (the President actually said that) of a "squatter" making money, even though I was not using in a bank connotation. The dot-bank was not cheap I think it was $1.000 plus on a new reg and high annual renewals which add up to more than my price by now.

DigiNames · Dec 23, 2018

I had my best year ever. I think the key is to focus on quality. There will be demand for high-quality .com domains for many years to come, and they will continue to go up in value.

imadoer · Dec 23, 2018

thedomainster said:
I had my best year ever. I think the key is to focus on quality. There will be demand for high-quality .com domains for many years to come, and they will continue to go up in value.

Had a good year as well can't say best ever idk what's going to beat the rise of the Chinese market days for me. But I completely agree that high quality. Coms will continue to rise in value

johnnie018 · Dec 23, 2018

If the name is low quality you can’t expect it to sell well, especially if it obviously would only be if interest to one buyer.

Recons.Com · Dec 23, 2018

Bob Hawkes said:
I am sorry to ask what is probably obvious to others, but what does IRR stand for? Thanks.

Yes, it is for internal rate of return.

Return for the year divided by the investment.

Dave · Dec 23, 2018

bmugford said:
I had more inquires and sales than ever this year, however one person's sales is not a reflection of the market as a whole (either mine or the OP).

I will say it is very hard now in general as end user demand in my view is about the same, but re-seller prices at popular auction venues have gone way up. The margins as an investor generally don't make sense at the current auction prices.

Brad

This is so true. I have been bidding on names at auction that are finishing at $x,xxx and beyond whereas 5-10 years ago similar names would've cost $69-$500.

address · Dec 23, 2018

Dave said:
This is so true. I have been bidding on names at auction that are finishing at $x,xxx and beyond whereas 5-10 years ago similar names would've cost $69-$500.

What do you think about L-L.com value?

Dave · Dec 23, 2018

address said:
What do you think about L-L.com value?

I have no idea. Have never sold an L-L.com before.

Bob Hawkes · Dec 23, 2018

Dave said:
This is so true. I have been bidding on names at auction that are finishing at $x,xxx and beyond whereas 5-10 years ago similar names would've cost $69-$500.

Do you think the difference is primarily due to entry of Huge Domains into bidding, more individual domainers, or some domainers going into it with larger portfolios now therefore more acquisition pressure?

Dave · Dec 23, 2018

Bob Hawkes said:
Do you think the difference is primarily due to entry of Huge Domains into bidding, more individual domainers, or some domainers going into it with larger portfolios now therefore more acquisition pressure?

I think it is saturation and FOMO (fear of missing out) driving prices up these days.

Membership count on Namepros is an indicator of more domainers than ever before. When I joined Namepros I'm pretty sure there was around 50,000 registered members. I know we're over 1 million registered members now.

Fancy.domains · Dec 24, 2018

2018 has been my best domaining year so far.

If you don’t sell your names anymore, maybe you should change your focus to other trends or/and extensions. Namebio is one of many sources to track current aftermarket trends.

wwwweb · Dec 24, 2018

I’m sorry your OP is totally wrong, anyone who owns a decent portfolio is having an amazing year. As I see many of the veteran domainers here who I know own quality are saying the same thing.

It’s a lot of discipline, and a little bit of luck. If you sell your best names for to cheap you are screwed, the power of no, and figuring out who your buyer is go a long way.

If you are more focused on ppc over quality keywords you have already lost. Sadly good inventory is over priced in the current market, and you probably will overpay at the current aftermarket prices.

jideofor · Dec 24, 2018

For those who depend on whois inquiries, I think you should log into your Godaddy account in the place of Organization, put your email there so that end users can reach you: e.g [email protected] for inquiries.

The Organization option is left visible by Godaddy and I have seen a few guys use it to tell that they can be reach as the domain name is for sale.

Also, I wouldn't dismiss what the OP has said going by the fact that DNJournal has been reporting less and less domain sales in recent times and honestly, the thoughts of this post flashed my mind just few days ago.

mani0307 · Dec 25, 2018

2018 is best year for me i have sold total 10 domains with average price $730 and 2017 was a bad year because lake of inventory and mostly crappy names.
and hoping make double sale in 2019.

xynames · Dec 25, 2018

xynames said:
Every month you might think things are slowing. And then suddenly you get great sales.

~ The 34 Year Buzz!! · Dec 25, 2018

bmugford said:
I had more inquires and sales than ever this year, however one person's sales is not a reflection of the market as a whole (either mine or the OP).

I will say it is very hard now in general as end user demand in my view is about the same, but re-seller prices at popular auction venues have gone way up. The margins as an investor generally don't make sense at the current auction prices.

Brad

...about the same, but re-seller prices at popular auction venues have gone way up.

Thanks for the reminder, for me domains have always been a Fun Hobby and I was not interested in learning how to re-sell the right way.

.X. · Dec 27, 2018

well, I would agree it is negative compared to the days of Dom parking dollars and less saturation on the aftermarket sites as well as domain name sales ROI being more than today.

Overall I am selling about the same amount of names, as usual, I only do inbound and use Sedo, Undeveloped, and Afternic, along with some offers via personal email. This year is 72 sales total, here is the bad part, average sale is mid $xxx , aside from the drop in ROI from years ago, sales are close to the same. I have bought and reged 107 domains in 2018, so 72 sold, 107 bought and reged. Renewals 622 names at an average of $8.62 per name. so renewals are still reasonable.

The good o'l days offered streams of income without full development of names, compensating for slow selling months. we were able to go in and feast on names as opposed to today it is very slim pickin's compared to 2005 to 2010. The aftermarket auction sites names are selling to high to hold names for an extended period, there are 35 bidders on tier 2 and tier 3 names, by auctions end, a decent majority of these names have sold far too high and not really feasible to make a decent ROI on unless the hold time is 1+ years, there is hardly any forwarded equity in these names bought IMO,

I am able to snag a name off the auction sites every so often, but I know I will have a significant hold time if I want to make any decent money on it.

lock · Dec 27, 2018

Your going to need to find a niche to survive. The niche will need to be based on parking earnings. As mentioned parking alone isn't enough so you will need websites to promote and to funnel traffic to. The domainer still needs programming skills. One keyword won't be enough to monetize so you may need to keep buying domains in your niche to make up the numbers. At the same time the domains you buy will need to still be sellable or you will still end up collecting domains. The business is getting tougher many are downsizing to adapt. If your hiding whois you maybe making yourself unavailable to deal with the enquiry until you make a landing. Hey days provide precedence pricing on keywords they didnt disappear they created a pricing structure that wasn't present before.

ResoluteDomains · Dec 28, 2018

lolwarrior said:
And...I really feel you @namemarket , as I also lost potentially very nice deal related to one of my new gTLD names few weeks ago to.. alternative in .APP! I could not believe when that person has choosen instead nice keyword in .app, and simply went away. That is why everytime you purchase a domain name, try to think about how much alternatives are there for it, and how much those alternatives cost....

I lost a dot com sale to the same name in .IO But now I am getting his traffic (who naturally types in .com)

scrsteven · Dec 28, 2018

I had more inquiries/sales than ever in 2018.

What is namemarket's sample size and quality of names?

One way that "quality of names" can be communicated is by sharing your annual sell-through rate (percentage) and average sales price.

Silentptnr · Dec 29, 2018

Interesting topic. The end user market, for me, is always far more finicky that the investor market. I think the rules are the same though. Good domain names, good (realistic) pricing, high visibility, and an easy purchase process are essential to make sales.

It is important to remember the theory of substitution though. If a buyer can get a similar domain for much less money, they often will. The sale process is about parties negotiating. You can't lose what you don't have. It's normal to not always end negotiations with a sale.

For me, it's mostly about what I do to promote and sell my domains. It's about the choices I make in how, where, when and for how much, do I try to sell my domains. And how much effort I put forth.

Certainly there are fluctuations in every market, but imho, the value of, and the demand for, domain names is continuing to grow.

Silentptnr · Dec 29, 2018

On a lighter note, usually when a domain investor expresses concern over the market, I say, "Yeah, it's just terrible. You should give me all your domains and go try something else." LOL (They never do)

ResoluteDomains · Dec 29, 2018

.X. said:
well, I would agree it is negative compared to the days of Dom parking dollars and less saturation on the aftermarket sites as well as domain name sales ROI being more than today.

Overall I am selling about the same amount of names, as usual, I only do inbound and use Sedo, Undeveloped, and Afternic, along with some offers via personal email. This year is 72 sales total, here is the bad part, average sale is mid $xxx , aside from the drop in ROI from years ago, sales are close to the same. I have bought and reged 107 domains in 2018, so 72 sold, 107 bought and reged. Renewals 622 names at an average of $8.62 per name. so renewals are still reasonable.

The good o'l days offered streams of income without full development of names, compensating for slow selling months. we were able to go in and feast on names as opposed to today it is very slim pickin's compared to 2005 to 2010. The aftermarket auction sites names are selling to high to hold names for an extended period, there are 35 bidders on tier 2 and tier 3 names, by auctions end, a decent majority of these names have sold far too high and not really feasible to make a decent ROI on unless the hold time is 1+ years, there is hardly any forwarded equity in these names bought IMO,

I am able to snag a name off the auction sites every so often, but I know I will have a significant hold time if I want to make any decent money on it.

I remember those parking days well. For a few years parking paid my mortgage. Sales paid for utilities and I even banked $.. Yep, holding much longer here too. Sold names this year that I registered 12 years ago.

Yes, times have changed but I am not sure its more "negative" as the OP says. Its just changed. "Adapt or die" is what the saying is, right?

Sadly domaining is real negative versus its hey-days, imo. Do you agree?

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