BrandBucket Experience

SuperBrander said:

@Abdullah Abdullah I think Michael focuses on the best keywords and according to his interviews buys a lot of them in the aftermarket. Since he has a bigger budget due to his sales, he can afford buying better names than average and more of those. If you would say that BB staff has a better understanding of what sells because they have access to information other sellers don't have so that makes an unfair competition, then to that I would agree even though DNBolt makes the sales public (at least most of them).

But think about this- Michael hardly has any totally made up words in his portfolio (ones without any keyword). There are a lot of those at BB and a search for 'up' or for 'tech, won't bring up most of them. So the percentage of domains Michael will show up in search results for popular keywords, would naturally be high because his whole portfolio is geared up toward being found when keywords are being searched for. I think most of the sellers at BB mostly have hand regged names and quite a lot of totally made up names without a keyword. So of the total percentage of names that include a word at BB, Michael owns a very big chunk. His 6729 domains might be around 1/3 or 1/4 of those. So I think that can perhaps explain the results you're showing.

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We can sit here and argue for ages and it wont change anything. Your argument will not work cause all made up names are given Keywords which means when they are searched then they should be found...example...Xefio is owned by Krell but is on page 1 when you search for Tech. Isnt it madeup name ? Does it have the keyword? TechyJobs is there too so why not TechyHome too which is mine ? That logic is not working. I am sorry.

I'm just speculating like you. I think the algorithm gives higher preference to results that contain the actual word. Then to names that have that word as a keyword. Are there other made up words besides Xefio that are owned by Michael in your search for Tech?

SuperBrander said:

I'm just speculating like you. I think the algorithm gives higher preference to results that contain the actual word. Then to names that have that word as a keyword. Are there other made up words besides Xefio that are owned by Michael in your search for Tech?

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Speculating like me ? Well I think providing what is fact is not speculating. And this discussion is not just Krell but overall how many names BB staff get in the first page of the results. Simply go to BB and do the checkup and see how many madeup names owned by BB staff show in pages 1,2, and 3 . That should help you a lot.

I think none of us know how the results algorithm works so it is speculation. Perhaps a domain age is also taken into account? Perhaps the price? Better domains (ones that can't be hand regged) usually are aged and are priced higher so quality-wise I don't think they can be compared to hand regged ones. When I search for Tech, I see my domains TechLike and TechBuck are in the first page. TechLike is a premium so that isn't surprising, but TechBuck is a domain I bought from another NP member and it was hand regged. Still it's there. Why? I don't know. So I think without knowing exactly how the search algorithm works... looking at the results you're showing doesn't explain things.

SuperBrander said:

I think none of us know how the results algorithm works so it is speculation. Perhaps a domain age is also taken into account? Perhaps the price? Better domains (ones that can't be hand regged) usually are aged and are priced higher so quality-wise I don't think they can be compared to hand regged ones. When I search for Tech, I see my domains TechLike and TechBuck are in the first page. TechLike is a premium so that isn't surprising, but TechBuck is a domain I bought from another NP member and it was hand regged. Still it's there. Why? I don't know. So I think without knowing exactly how the search algorithm works... looking at the results you're showing doesn't explain things.

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Sure, take it or leave it. The results I posted is not for convincing BB supporters or non supporters that there is something wrong here. So you have two names on first page ? I also said that is not the issue we are discussing here. We are discussing how many names out of possible 48 names returned when a certain keyword is used for searching do belong to BB staff. So great you have two on first page but I do know many who have one domain in a niche and have it on first page too. If you dont see 25, 31 names out of 48 names belonging to the staff as a problem then I say good for you sir.

All I'm saying is that I don't know how the search algorithm works. I think the results for the rest of the staff are relatively negligible. I don't know how many names they have, but Margot has a few thousands, I think? Add the brand ambassadors who probably also have a few thousands (I really don't know the numbers) and you get quite a large percentage of listings from the overall listings, which I guess will be reflected in search results. Michael's results definitely aren't negligible, but I can think of reasons why his names are featured more than others (owning a large percentage of all results that contain a word due to the nature of his portfolio, focusing on the best keywords, a lot of aged domains, high priced domains, some domains that are better than average etc.). Like I keep on saying- I'm not a fan of some policies and I think BB need to be as transparent as possible in order to handle this situation where staff and sellers are competing because it brings up exactly the things that you're trying to demonstrate.

IF the search results were skewed to favour BB/staff, then Margot, Michael and staff would sell more domains than anyone else, hands down. We know that is not the case, there are many of us that are outselling them, even you on occasions.

DNBolt actually broke down a month here:
https://dnbolt.com/blog/brandbucket-june-2016-sales-review/

So lets look at the percentage of each portfolio that sold that month (personal names intentionally removed):
16 names sold from a portfolio of 5528 = 0.29%
4 names sold from a portfolio of 447 = 0.89%
3 names sold from a portfolio of 1006 = 0.3%
3 names sold from a portfolio of 234 = 1.28%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 561 = 0.36%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 781 = 0.26%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 109 = 1.83%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 98 = 2.04%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 192 = 1.04%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 2386 = 0.08%

So of the top 10 that month, Michael was 7th and Margot was 10th. You also sold 2 names that month and so did at least 3 others with small portfolios at that time. That means Michael was actually 10th and Margot was 13th and you were above them both.

Abdullah Abdullah said:

2nd page for Tech

6 Ambassador
1 Privacy
2 Mine

Krell

1. techprairie
2. techmule
3. techcoup
4. techshoe
5. techblender
6. techtrumpet
7. techluster
8. techstable
9. techsleeve
10. techfang
11. techfluential
12. techflake
13. techstrap

Second page off 48 names, Krell has 13 , Amb has 6 that is 19 from the house. I have 2 (for the first time I see this woooohooo ... got to celebrate lol ) . One is under privacy.

As for Third page ,

1 Amb
19 Privacy
9 Margot

Krell

1. techpotion
2. techcloak

First time Krell is beaten. Margot took charge of the third page. Do you want to know something about the Privacy names? They are all at NameSilo, updated on 17 , 20, 21 , . Margot on Slack said she uses NameSilo and these days puts most of her domains under privacy so based on the date the domains where updated and where they are registered, then I can assume they are hers. So 19+9+1+2 = 31 of the 48 names are owned by the house.

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Thanks for the data. So it looks like Krell has priority just for the first page, Margot and the ambassadors have priority for second and third pages. It seems that it's very cheap to buy some supporters with the third page.

boker said:

Thanks for the data. So it looks like Krell has priority just for the first page, Margot and the ambassadors have priority for second and third pages. It seems that it's very cheap to buy some supporters with the third page.

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Only this tech thirdpage it showed he had less names but in 1,2 tech pages he has the most.

SuperBrander said:

All I'm saying is that I don't know how the search algorithm works. I think the results for the rest of the staff are relatively negligible. I don't know how many names they have, but Margot has a few thousands, I think? Add the brand ambassadors who probably also have a few thousands (I really don't know the numbers) and you get quite a large percentage of listings from the overall listings, which I guess will be reflected in search results. Michael's results definitely aren't negligible, but I can think of reasons why his names are featured more than others (owning a large percentage of all results that contain a word due to the nature of his portfolio, focusing on the best keywords, a lot of aged domains, high priced domains, some domains that are better than average etc.). Like I keep on saying- I'm not a fan of some policies and I think BB need to be as transparent as possible in order to handle this situation where staff and sellers are competing because it brings up exactly the things that you're trying to demonstrate.

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They have around 10k domains, Krell and family, so around 20% of the names, but for every serch you make, they have around 50%-55% of the first page searches. Also, if you check every month report you will see that there it's no difference between keyword and madeup sales. Also, for 95% of Krell's portofolio, the average price it's 2'5 k, so not something extraordinary. Also, speculation it's if this will be true for a few searches, but when it's true in 99% of searches, then becomes a fact.

JimJammy said:

IF the search results were skewed to favour BB/staff, then Margot, Michael and staff would sell more domains than anyone else, hands down. We know that is not the case, there are many of us that are outselling them, even you on occasions.

DNBolt actually broke down a month here:
https://dnbolt.com/blog/brandbucket-june-2016-sales-review/

So lets look at the percentage of each portfolio that sold that month (personal names intentionally removed):
16 names sold from a portfolio of 5528 = 0.29%
4 names sold from a portfolio of 447 = 0.89%
3 names sold from a portfolio of 1006 = 0.3%
3 names sold from a portfolio of 234 = 1.28%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 561 = 0.36%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 781 = 0.26%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 109 = 1.83%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 98 = 2.04%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 192 = 1.04%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 2386 = 0.08%

So of the top 10 that month, Michael was 7th and Margot was 10th. You also sold 2 names that month and so did at least 3 others with small portfolios at that time. That means Michael was actually 10th and Margot was 13th and you were above them both.

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You are right , those where my first sales in over a year there. This sale to portfolio size doesnt work cause in that data he still sold 16 names when I sold 2 which is the data that matters. If I sold 16 and he sold 2 while having a bigger portfolio than me that that would mean I outperformed him

JimJammy said:

IF the search results were skewed to favour BB/staff, then Margot, Michael and staff would sell more domains than anyone else, hands down. We know that is not the case, there are many of us that are outselling them, even you on occasions.

DNBolt actually broke down a month here:
https://dnbolt.com/blog/brandbucket-june-2016-sales-review/

So lets look at the percentage of each portfolio that sold that month (personal names intentionally removed):
16 names sold from a portfolio of 5528 = 0.29%
4 names sold from a portfolio of 447 = 0.89%
3 names sold from a portfolio of 1006 = 0.3%
3 names sold from a portfolio of 234 = 1.28%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 561 = 0.36%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 781 = 0.26%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 109 = 1.83%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 98 = 2.04%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 192 = 1.04%
2 names sold from a portfolio of 2386 = 0.08%

So of the top 10 that month, Michael was 7th and Margot was 10th. You also sold 2 names that month and so did at least 3 others with small portfolios at that time. That means Michael was actually 10th and Margot was 13th and you were above them both.

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It's not about sales( and we are talking about one month sales, so nothing general), it's about the advantages. Try to think about what percentage of sales people will have without receiving any 'push'.

Abdullah Abdullah said:

You are right , those where my first sales in over a year there. This sale to portfolio size doesnt work cause in that data he still sold 16 names when I sold 2 which is the data that matters. If I sold 16 and he sold 2 while having a bigger portfolio than me that that would mean I outperformed him

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What?

Of course the size of the portfolio matters. You outsold him that month, as did 9 other people.

And if you are being so disadvantaged by this search, I'm guessing you must be selling more names at the same prices on your own website than you do on BB? Even those names you have listed on BB that are also listed on your own website?

Abdullah Abdullah said:

Higher quality because of age ? Nope that wont work. I can make visit GD auctions and get horrible names that are 13 or more years old. I was surprised with techyjobs too... then again I am surprised with my own techyhome too :p which is in no where to be seen.

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I didn't mean age = quality, you can indeed find super crappy aged names. What I meant was: good "Tech" names would on many occasions not end up in the expired list, but be caught by dropcatch etc, or the names are bought in the aftermarket.

You can of course occasionally find a really good name in the "expired" section, but more often than not the gems will be picked up before they end up there.

boker said:

They have around 10k domains, Krell and family, so around 20% of the names, but for every serch you make, they have around 50%-55% of the first page searches. Also, if you check every month report you will see that there it's no difference between keyword and madeup sales. Also, for 95% of Krell's portofolio, the average price it's 2'5 k, so not something extraordinary. Also, speculation it's if this will be true for a few searches, but when it's true in 99% of searches, then becomes a fact.

Click to expand...

Again, I can't explain what I don't know. I'm just speculating with the rest of you. But I think about 1/3 or 1/2 of the domains at BB are of listings that don't contain a word. It's probable that when someone searches for a word, the algorithm's preference is to give him a name that contains it. Michael has better names than most and almost all of his portfolio can be found using a search because of its nature. I think you can't compare the visibility of portfolios that are 90% hand regged (I'm guessing that's the average namepros member's BB portfolio) to a portfolio that is probably (wild guess) 90% aftermarket with a lot of aged and quite a few better than average names (not just closeouts but also more expensive domains). Anyway... I think that's my word quota for today for this matter. I have other things to do. I think the bottom line is that everyone would appreciate full transparency by BB on these matters. Till then... it's all just speculation and trying to figure out why things are the way they are.

This is a good conversation and people are raising some good points. Michael, Margo and the BB staff do not read this thread so I hope these concerns and suggestions are submitted to BB via email ([email protected]) or via the private Slack channel which was set up specifically so that sellers, in good standing, can have direct access to Michael and Margot.

As many have pointed out BB is not perfect. I think we can all agree on that I would venture to say that even Michael and Margo do not think that BB is perfect. In my experiences with them they are always looking to improve and are very open to civil, constructive suggestions and feedback.

Over the past year, BB has made the following changes and improvements, based on Seller feedback:

1. Portfolio inventory, status and sales metrics added to the seller dashboard
2. Portfolio search added to dashboard
   
3. Mass NS validation added to dashboard
   
4. Ability to convert sale income to publishing credits added to dashboard
   
5. Automated re-submission of rejected names after 9 months added to dashboard
   
6. Guaranteed review of domain submissions in 72hrs or less!
   
7. As little as 5 days from the time of submission to the time of publication!!!
8. Improved quality and consistency of logos
9. Private Slack channel with dedicated threads for discussion of names and sales
10. An independent name review board that does not include Michael and Margot
    
11. Ambassadors, Michael and Margot required to use the same submission and review procedures as all other sellers.
    
12. Enhanced search algorithms on the website so that invented names come up better in keyword searches
13. Podcasts that review and explain rejected names

All the brandable marketplaces (Namerific, BrandRoot and BB) were founded on the owners domain portfolio's. Those portfolios still exist on all three marketplaces, are very large, and there is a built in potential for bias and favoritism. However, in my opinion, BB has done more than any other marketplace to mitigate that bias.

I agree there is always room for improvement and I hope concerned sellers will express themselves directly to Michael and Margot via email or Slack.

JimJammy said:

What?

Of course the size of the portfolio matters. You outsold him that month, as did 9 other people.

And if you are being so disadvantaged by this search, I'm guessing you must be selling more names at the same prices on your own website than you do on BB? Even those names you have listed on BB that are also listed on your own website?

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Well this is not going anywhere I think. He sold 16 names and I sold 2. Cant see how I outperformed cause this metric is what matters more than the size of the portfolio. Lets not derail the thread please by talking about my website and names ( thanks for checking out though ) . I would have liked to answer your question of if I am making more sales or not on my website but it will derail the discussion. And one more thing..Those are make offer names and 100% follow BB ToS l.

Abdullah Abdullah said:

Well this is not going anywhere I think. He sold 16 names and I sold 2. Cant see how I outperformed cause this metric is what matters more than the size of the portfolio. Lets not derail the thread please by talking about my website and names ( thanks for checking out though ) . I would have liked to answer your question of if I am making more sales or not on my website but it will derail the discussion. And one more thing..Those are make offer names and 100% follow BB ToS l.

Click to expand...

BB Terms said:

Can I list the domain for sale elsewhere?

No.

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I don't think it gets much clearer than that.

SuperBrander said:

Again, I can't explain what I don't know. I'm just speculating with the rest of you. But I think about 1/3 or 1/2 of the domains at BB are of listings that don't contain a word. It's probable that when someone searches for a word, the algorithm's preference is to give him a name that contains it. Michael has better names than most and almost all of his portfolio can be found using a search because of its nature. I think you can't compare the visibility of portfolios that are 90% hand regged (I'm guessing that's the average namepros member's BB portfolio) to a portfolio that is probably (wild guess) 90% aftermarket with a lot of aged and quite a few better than average names (not just closeouts but also more expensive domains). Anyway... I think that's my word quote for today for this matter. I have other things to do. I think the bottom line is that everyone would appreciate a public and full transparency by BB on these matters. Till then... it's all just speculation and trying to figure out why things are the way they are.

Click to expand...

You're trying to undervalue everything by saying that everybody it's speculating because we don't have a confirmation from the owners....believe me, it will never happen that Krell or Margot will say, yes it's true. It's like proving in court that one guy was in a certain area, he had a motive to kill somebody, he had a weapon with him and all his fingerprints are there, the only thing it's that nobody saw him, so for sure it most mean that it's just speculation. Believe me, they are 100% facts. If you want, you can bring some arguments, not just dismiss other arguments. Also, it will be very wrong if they will charge everybody the same amount, but they will treat some names in one way and other names in other way. Also, Krell's portofolio it's nowhere near 90% from the aftermarket, because until he reached around 3.5 k domains, most of them were handregged and even if you will check the last 100-200 names listed lately by Krell the aftermarket numbers are nowhere near. This means a fact, to bring some numbers to sustain what are you saying, not just to throw some ideas.

BrandBucket Sellers Terms

Can I list the domain for sale elsewhere?

No. By submitting and accepting your name for listing at BrandBucket you are agreeing to have BrandBucket as the exclusive seller for the duration that a domain name is listed, and listing the domain for sale elsewhere is prohibited.

Keith DeBoer said:

Over the past year, BB has made the following changes and improvements, based on Seller feedback:

1. Portfolio inventory, status and sales metrics added to the seller dashboard
2. Portfolio search added to dashboard
   
3. Mass NS validation added to dashboard
   
4. Ability to convert sale income to publishing credits added to dashboard
   
5. Automated re-submission of rejected names after 9 months added to dashboard
   
6. Guaranteed review of domain submissions in 72hrs or less!
   
7. As little as 5 days from the time of submission to the time of publication!!!
8. Improved quality and consistency of logos
9. Private Slack channel with dedicated threads for discussion of names and sales
10. An independent name review board that does not include Michael and Margot
    
11. Ambassadors, Michael and Margot put on the same submission and review procedures as all other sellers.
    
12. Enhanced search algorithms on the website so that invented names come up better in keyword searches
13. Podcasts that review and explain rejected names

Click to expand...

And what did they do on the sale side? I'm not a big domainer like others here, but to me the points you listed here are mostly on the back-end side. I would be interested in knowing about the marketing of domains to increase sells rather than back-end part. There was a feature requested long time ago regarding the sales coming from type-in vs sales through search engine traffic. Why was that not implemented yet?

@boker Point taken. I am just guessing. But whatever the numbers are- he has a better portfolio than everybody else- both in size and in quality. And he focuses on domains that contain popular words so those will come up more often in search results. That's a fact. Anyway... I really want to stop discussing this at this point so I'll let everybody else continue the lively discussion.

JimJammy said:

I don't think it gets much clearer than that.

Click to expand...

I have communications in place which BB state to me that I can promote my domains as I please SO LONG they redirect to BB sales page. Why do your best to derail the thread and discussion? If you want to talk about my names and website then create a thread please

Keith DeBoer said:

This is a good conversation and people are raising some good points. Michael, Margo and the BB staff do not read this thread so I hope these concerns and suggestions are submitted to BB via email ([email protected]) or via the private Slack channel which was set up specifically so that sellers, in good standing, can have direct access to Michael and Margot.

As many have pointed out BB is not perfect. I think we can all agree on that I would venture to say that even Michael and Margo do not think that BB is perfect. In my experiences with them they are always looking to improve and are very open to civil, constructive suggestions and feedback.

Over the past year, BB has made the following changes and improvements, based on Seller feedback:

1. Portfolio inventory, status and sales metrics added to the seller dashboard
2. Portfolio search added to dashboard
   
3. Mass NS validation added to dashboard
   
4. Ability to convert sale income to publishing credits added to dashboard
   
5. Automated re-submission of rejected names after 9 months added to dashboard
   
6. Guaranteed review of domain submissions in 72hrs or less!
   
7. As little as 5 days from the time of submission to the time of publication!!!
8. Improved quality and consistency of logos
9. Private Slack channel with dedicated threads for discussion of names and sales
10. An independent name review board that does not include Michael and Margot
    
11. Ambassadors, Michael and Margot required to use the same submission and review procedures as all other sellers.
    
12. Enhanced search algorithms on the website so that invented names come up better in keyword searches
13. Podcasts that review and explain rejected names

All the brandable marketplaces (Namerific, BrandRoot and BB) were founded on the owners domain portfolio's. Those portfolios still exist on all three marketplaces, are very large, and there is a built in potential for bias and favoritism. However, in my opinion, BB has done more than any other marketplace to mitigate that bias.

I agree there is always room for improvement and I hope concerned sellers will express themselves directly to Michael and Margot via email or Slack.

Click to expand...

Keith, you're a fair guy, but to say that Krell and Margot, they don't know what's happening because they don't read this forum, when Alpnames guys , with millions of registrations have time to respond to every issue in a timely manner, doesn't sound right. It's exactly like Trump not reading the newspapers, because he doesn't like what he reads. And also, most of the 'improvements' are related to the dashboard, which it's the best way to control the submittions and to force seller to list all names, otherwise the account will not be in good standing order.

SuperBrander said:

@creataweb I'm pretty sure I remember him saying on the slack channel that he is paying fees, but if someone knows otherwise- please chime in. I know from his interviews that he started there like any other seller and built up his portfolio. Because he started making many sales, he invested more money into it and eventually became the managing director etc. Again, I'm not a BB defender and I have problems with a lot of things they do. But they do also get sales for names that very likely wouldn't sell elsewhere and for prices that are hard to get elsewhere.

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Now reading through the thread superbrander, so just wanted to correct this. He did not say that he pays fees. He said that he pays commissions. In fact, he mentioned that ambassadors get a certain number of credits gifted to their account each month, and he never specified if he lists all his domains freely or if he gets a set number of credits as well.

Btw, I do think that it does feel unfair to other sellers that Mike has 6700+names listed, some great, some mediocre and some not great. They are all there. I think each seller should have a cap. That is, no more than 2K names etc. I also suggested in Slack that there should be a simple rotation of the names each time a keyword is searched. The same domains should not sit on the front page for 2 years. A simple rotation would make everything fair to everyone.

I also agree with the person who said that we should all get to the point where we learn to market and sell our own names and not depend on BB. Honestly, as each of my names expire, I plan to renew the ones I love and remove them from BB and head over to other platforms that are more well known and where I've had more sales. I also plan and have started doing more active marketing of my names. I guess we all have to figure out what's best for us as individual domainers.

I also think that it's sad that nobody from the BB staff takes the time to read this thread. That type of thing gives the idea that they don't really care about non-slack sellers. Lack of customer appreciation (and yes we are customers) is bad for any business.

My 2 cents. I have no idea why I didn't get notifications from this thread.