Domain Empire

discuss What is happening to domaining? Is it in crisis?

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This is an observation based on the low activity I see in the domain forums and other venues. For instance, lately, I have visited other domain forums and there are instances where you can see zero or only a handful of registered members connected. Even here on NamePros, the level of activity seems to have decreased.

On Clubhouse, for example, there used to be a lot of activity, with auctions where participants could count on at least a few sales per week (wholesale price).

But that is no longer the case. I know the economic crisis has deeply impacted the business, of course, but I ask myself if there are many domain investors who have given up and moved on? What do you think?
 
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I don't really see the domain field in crisis.

A lot of this might simply come down to small sample size and/or unrealistic expectations.

The activity on expired auctions is still very strong.

If anything, there is more of a reversion to mean after the COVID bump.

This happened in many fields. Capital was cheap and there was more reckless spending.

The money is still there for quality domains. I just sold one today for $5,400.

Brad
 
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The decrease in domain sales started in the last few years when many people went with trading / investments / crypto projects

But many people has lost money in trading /investments / cryptos, so this can benefit domain sales from now on

I think there is an slow recovery
 
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great posts here I see.
i will give my gut instinct 1st then read some more another reaction

are we talking non dotcoms here? if so, then IMO like alt extensions "most" like alt coins ?? ..since ICANN released so many extensions collectors reached a saturation point alongside no upside end-user demand utility!

..because as I always say: .com aftermarket prices at their best levels ever
 
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There was a time, ~1999 - 2001, when folks shared a bit more.

As time passed those who did realized there were a fair number of folks who also "knew stuff" but kept such info to themselves. This caused many to question sharing useful insights, often insights that had a "learning cost" of time and money. This lead to "why give it away for free" thinking.

Then there was the time of STFU messaging, that is, "your sharing will kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs". Think: exact match domains. People keep talking about them. Google says "Enough already!" and changes their algo.

Then, as economies move up and down, folks also realize they have better things to do than "be chatty".

Then came wave after wave of folks want to make a name for themselves, to stand out from the crowd, and so much of the volume of content was just about the incessant need to publish. No significant value. Much parroting of one another. Etc.

Somewhere along the way domaining, competitive SEO of websites, etc. became global and the entire process became more competitive / challenging and, as a result, there was less time to kill chatting or even less desire to share.

FWIW, I learned a long time ago that once people began publicly chatting about ~keys to success those keys rarely held any advantage. Those who work hard on carving out or creating an advantage would usually already be 2 or 3 steps ahead of what the "public experts" were touting. (Heck, 20 years ago I learned that if any "secret" was so good at making money NOBODY - at least in their right mind - would be sharing that secret, even at a paid monthly fee rate).

FWIW, odds are you have no idea how others who are making coin domaining are doing. It invariably comes down to the quality of the domains that you hold and how rational your pricing is . . and how patient you can afford to be . . and what your personal cash flow is and how good you are at cash flow management . . which ties into patience. In other words, can you afford to be patient.

I see very little opportunity in the current market. I see the same old same old "shilling" of new TLDs. Anyone rememeber the hype about .mobi domains? Ditto .info for informational websites? The folks that buy the hype rarely have success in reselling the hype.

There's still the market for those attemtping to acquire a winning lottery ticket by crafting catchy or creative domains. As far as I can see that's just like the lottery: you can spend a lot of money on those lottery tickets and NEVER win or win back a small percentage of what you have laid out.

I wish everyone all the luck in the world but, AFAIC or AFAICanSee, the odds of success as a domainer in 2023 are more challenging than ever.

Lastly, I don't publcly report my sales, but I've had a few in 2023 so - after ~25 years - I'm still in the game . . but . . meh . . in some respects domaining is a bit more of a PITA than it was in 2007 or '08 or '13 or '15.

I wistfully remember the days when domain parking revenue could support a LARGE portfolio's renewal costs and still provide a nice net-revenue stream. Now? Meh.

Still, if you hold a number of decent domains, you can cover renewals fees . . up to the point where the registrars or central registry keeps jacking up prices . . and then, as you drop domains to conserve cash flow . . you watch . . sometimes painfully . . as noobs or machines pick up your droppings in hopes of better days. :-/ #SMH #Sigh
great post
i starting buying hundreds .coms well reserved fee back in january 1999 on credit card

no monday morning quaterbacking, we didn't have lessons in renewal fees then. i loved those generic WHOIS available days

yes 20+ years went by have 1 left fr january 1999.. sales were one and done

i had a lucky end to my domaining social history (with int www typos most traffic potfolio now 40+ combined) we'd look up 1999 wwwyahoo .com not available.. remenber some of the ones that were is fun memory for me these days

on a positive note to leave, these www typo especially int are thousands "only" some couple in aftermarket but dreamt one of mine once "worth millions" so relatively maybe the greatest time in domaining history to be ransacked by a middle income or so+ aspirant

traffic everydays tomorrows for yesterdays work are the #1 domains period not brandables, really, astonishing 25 years me to figure out especially if your hope combines many of them. This traffic level becomes an asset class.

- Dennis Zabala
 
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This is an observation based on the low activity I see in the domain forums and other venues. For instance, lately, I have visited other domain forums and there are instances where you can see zero or only a handful of registered members connected. Even here on NamePros, the level of activity seems to have decreased.

On Clubhouse, for example, there used to be a lot of activity, with auctions where participants could count on at least a few sales per week (wholesale price).

But that is no longer the case. I know the economic crisis has deeply impacted the business, of course, but I ask myself if there are many domain investors who have given up and moved on? What do you think?
I been in domaining since 1998 and this has been the slowest time I can remember. Let's see how things go after summer
 
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I been in domaining since 1998 and this has been the slowest time I can remember. Let's see how things go after summer

In my case, the situation has been as follows during the last three years:

2021 was probably the best year I have had in my 13 years as a domain investor.

2022 was not too bad, but not as good as the previous year.

2023 has been slow, especially the first quarter. I scored a few nice sales in the second quarter and have been receiving a few offers from end-users lately, most of which I have rejected.

In reference to transactions with other domain investors, for me they have been virtually non-existent, which was not the case in previous years.

I have also noticed a reduction in the number of offers and sales I receive through DAN, while my Afternic sales remain as usual (kind of).
 
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In my case, the situation has been as follows during the las three years:

2021 was probably the best year I have had in my 13 years as a domain investor.

2022 was not too bad, but not as good as the previous year.

2023 has been slow, especially the first quarter. I scored a few nice sales in the second quarter and have been receiving a few offers from end-users lately, most of which I have rejected.

In reference to transactions with other domain investors, for me they have been virtually non-existent, which was not the case in previous years.

I have also noticed a reduction in the number of offers I receive through DAN, while my Afternic sales remain as usual (kind of).

More or less same here.

Weirdly enough, if other investors don't buy domains from investors, then who is bidding like crazy on those auctions up to ridiculous prices?
 
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In my case, the situation has been as follows during the last three years:

2021 was probably the best year I have had in my 13 years as a domain investor.

2022 was not too bad, but not as good as the previous year.

2023 has been slow, especially the first quarter. I scored a few nice sales in the second quarter and have been receiving a few offers from end-users lately, most of which I have rejected.

In reference to transactions with other domain investors, for me they have been virtually non-existent, which was not the case in previous years.

I have also noticed a reduction in the number of offers and sales I receive through DAN, while my Afternic sales remain as usual (kind of).
Maybe this is the cause for Dan situation? https://www.namepros.com/threads/da...they-act-now-as-seller-to-your-buyer.1306363/

Buyers are very sensitive to pricing right now, if on the lower price tier.
 
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I am a bit surprised at the number of good posts in this thread.
A bit refreshing from kiddie stuff I have been reading.

Yes, a bunch of NDA sales hide much. It is growing.

But I do want everyone to take a broader perspective that I'm sure you will understand well if you have been doing this 15+ years.

Since the .com bubble early this century, there was a inrush of need for domains as everyone got a slot on the www. At about the 2010 level, it had really tapered off in volume. It was a general slope that has stayed with us for the last dozen years, despite spikes we have seen along the way.

Those spikes are often the result of the "wealth effect" we can normally see in the stock market.
But that only describes scale domain investors. That is if you have been watching who or even if those charted sales are being used 6 month to a year afterwards.

So this leaves with mostly new startups that need a domain. Some have budgets and some do not.
Will you be able to tell the way you have it listed ? How bad do you want a sale ?

When is the last time you seen a long established company just now get on the internet and acquire a domain?
We hit saturation with domains about 7 years ago and you really can't chart that because nobody isolates investor buys in the numbers. You have to do you own record keeping and it's tedious.

I can say with confidence that it's very hard to track the current state of sales and you need to be careful to what you contrast that to. More and more you need to do your own tracking for details.
 
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So this leaves with mostly new startups that need a domain.

It is estimated that there are over 300 million new startups every year worldwide and although some cannot afford to buy a name in the aftermarket, there are still many who can and have a decent budget for it - Like most others, I have experienced a slow down in sales this year compared to recent years, but it has also been extra good years since the covid crisis and I think it's only a matter of time before sales pick up again because most new startups will need a name and an online presence.
 
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It is estimated that there are over 300 million new startups every year worldwide and although some cannot afford to buy a name in the aftermarket, there are still many who can and have a decent budget for it - Like most others, I have experienced a slow down in sales this year compared to recent years, but it has also been extra good years since the covid crisis and I think it's only a matter of time before sales pick up again because most new startups will need a name and an online presence.

Unfortunately, most of these startups don't have a budget - at all.

Just wishes and dreams. These - most of them - don't get there. So they aren't your (our) buyers.
 
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@GoDaddy you have enough data to depict a clear picture, it would be wonderful having some of this data available for the market participants.

Thank you
 
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@GoDaddy you have enough data to depict a clear picture, it would be wonderful having some of this data available for the market participants.

Thank you
Would you actually trust them not to skew the data to promote more reg's ?

It's just homework. And not easy. And mostly ignored.
 
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When is the last time you seen a long established company just now get on the internet and acquire a domain?
We hit saturation with domains about 7 years ago and you really can't chart that because nobody isolates investor buys in the numbers. You have to do you own record keeping and it's tedious.
That is called understanding your market, that not many seem to take the time to do.

But in the same,
Like the stock market, think of investment advisors telling shareholders to invest in the long term.
You can't buy and dump domains based on current sales picture.
That also means not holding a bunch of high risk names long term.
A few are not exactly a bad idea.
Everyone expects good times to continue forever.
We had a lot of new start-ups on the backside of the pandemic as people did a re-think on their life's goals.

I expect I might start seeing fair names in the drop list over the coming 18 months from those that have to much overhead and can not distinguish the value of what to hold.
 
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Thats almost a million new start ups every day. quite a large number
Do you have a link to your estimate.
Godaddy lol so slimy cant share our traffic stats, maybe part of reason things are way they are is monopoly companies managing our assets.
It is estimated that there are over 300 million new startups every year worldwide and although some cannot afford to buy a name in the aftermarket, there are still many who can and have a decent budget for it - Like most others, I have experienced a slow down in sales this year compared to recent years, but it has also been extra good years since the covid crisis and I think it's only a matter of time before sales pick up again because most new startups will need a name and an online presence.
A lot of startups just go with wix or FB, ya they dont know what we know, I know but lots options too
Had a pie at HashtagPizza.ca Friday night 😋
$10 year they got a unique cool name
#Pizza
 
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I expect I might start seeing fair names in the drop list over the coming 18 months from those that have to much overhead and can not distinguish the value of what to hold.
When people say “keep your powder dry,” this feels like the moment they’ve been keeping it dry for. In the short term, capital management and liquidity is king, even more so than quality of portfolio. Good names are going to be available when illiquid investors have to hastily convert some of their portfolio to cash at a discount (or in more extreme cases, have to simply drop when they can’t keep up with renewals). At the risk of sounding like a shill, great opportunities will lie on buy side, but you’ll need the bankroll to ride it out.
 
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When people say “keep your powder dry,” this feels like the moment they’ve been keeping it dry for. In the short term, capital management and liquidity is king, even more so than quality of portfolio. Good names are going to be available when illiquid investors have to hastily convert some of their portfolio to cash at a discount (or in more extreme cases, have to simply drop when they can’t keep up with renewals). At the risk of sounding like a shill, great opportunities will lie on buy side, but you’ll need the bankroll to ride it out.

You can say this far simpler.

When chickens come to roost, the whale prevails.
 
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Unfortunately, most of these startups don't have a budget - at all.

Just wishes and dreams. These - most of them - don't get there. So they aren't your (our) buyers.
It is true that most startups fail, however a certain percent succeed.

Even if that is 20%, that is a lot of new potential end users each year.

Many terms I bought some years ago might have been taken in 10-20 domains and now are taken in 80-100+.

Over time there are more potential end users, even if the majority of startups fail.

Brad
 
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It is true that most startups fail, however a certain percent succeed.

Even if that is 20%, that is a lot of new potential end users each year.

Many terms I bought some years ago might have been taken in 10-20 domains and now are taken in 80-100+.

Over time there are more potential end users, even if the majority of startups fail.

Brad

I agree, but the problem here is - which startups? For us domainers here, that matters.

Those who have funds, either by their own or get investors, might buy a decent domain.

Those without, won't - especially in the current market.

That's why there is such a discrepancy between upper tier and lower tier sales, the latter being most affected by - surprise! - people running out of cash, who would have foreseen that when printing money like crazy.

Edit: I know you have higher quality names. There's confidence is high and experience + good portfolio, it all shows. And you are right, there are startups and will always be.

But I have a mixed bag, like many here. And I can definitely see my inferior tier suffering and there's a lot of clearance going on right now.
 
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I agree, but the problem here is - which startups? For us domainers here, that matters.

Those who have funds, either by their own or get investors, might buy a decent domain.

Those without, won't - especially in the current market.

That's why there is such a discrepancy between upper tier and lower tier sales, the latter being most affected by - surprise! - people running out of cash, who would have foreseen that when printing money like crazy.
Some of the perspective could also be related to when people entered the market.

Many have seen the natural ebbs and flows of a market in the past.

There was a lot of new investing since 2020, which certainly created a bubble in many asset classes.

This is true with crypto (especially shitcoins), meme stocks, NFT, collectibles, and many other assets.

Residential real estate is still going strong. However, I am not sure how sustainable that is with values going up and a 7%+ interest rate.

Brad
 
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Residential real estate is still going strong. However, I am not sure how sustainable that is with values going up and a 7%+ interest rate.

Brad

Classic bubble that will pop someday. Hard to say when though, as real estate is a thick bubble usually.
 
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It is true that most startups fail, however a certain percent succeed.

Even if that is 20%, that is a lot of new potential end users each year.

Many terms I bought some years ago might have been taken in 10-20 domains and now are taken in 80-100+.

Over time there are more potential end users, even if the majority of startups fail.

Brad
Fail or succeed, they need a name when they startup. Not your liability after the sale.

So, here is to wishing more folks try. ...wink

But yes, a lot of failures that followed near record new starts.
 
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Classic bubble that will pop someday. Hard to say when though, as real estate is a thick bubble usually.
Third world mass illegal immigration preserves the bubble like in Broken Brexit Britain.
 
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Third world mass illegal immigration preserves the bubble like in Broken Brexit Britain.
Actually, legal immigration does.

Most immigrants to UK are from Europe, particularly Eastern where I reside.
 
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