My question to Godaddy's CEO at NamesCon: Domain Liquidity for the industry

[Rob Monster]

Earlier this morning, I wake up to seeing a lovely comment from Shane Cultra on his blog:

To my eyes, that comment from Shane is actually pretty crazy. Ironically, many people told me unsolicited, that my question was the highlight of the Q&A. This is not the first time that Shane has spoken out of school against me with trash-talk and it probably won't be the last since it shamelessly drives up his page views for his affiliate site. I don't know if anyone has a video of the Q&A section of Aman's keynote but if so, would be great if someone would upload the actual video clip. I believe anyone who objectively reviews my question will find it to be rather selfless. It was a question about domain liquidity. There were 2 parts, and I believe they were reasonable and sincere.

Part 1: Domain Liquidity via Loans

As some folks know, Epik provides interest-free loans secured by domains. This is popular but we cannot lend to everyone in the amounts that everyone might like. Compared to Godaddy, we are a relatively small company without access to the vast pool of capital that Godaddy has access to. I asked if Godaddy would consider extending domain loans to its customers. The lending model is proven. Godaddy has the ability to scale it to a much greater degree. Rather than forcing Godaddy customers to abandon domains to their expiry stream, why not allow Godaddy customers with liquid names to borrow against their portfolio? It seems reasonable to me.


Part 2: Working with US Congress to make domain names a bankable asset.

I have also been a long-time believer in the potential for domain names to be a respected asset class. The challenge there is that the banking industry does not recognize domains as a bankable asset class. People can donate domains to non-profits and can get a write-down for their investment basis, but if you go to a bank and ask to borrow against a 3N.com, they have no idea what you are talking about. The House subcommittee on banking could engage here but we would need some lobbying power to make that happen.

For anyone who has ever studied the history of the housing market, the correlation between the availability of borrowing capacity and the prices of the associated asset is indisputable. When credit is available, asset prices go up. If domain owners could more methodically borrow against their domains at conventional banking rates rather than only from hard money pawnshops that dominate the landscape today, it would be a game-changer for making the pie bigger for everyone.

I will be interested to hear what folks have to say on this very reasonable topic about domain liquidity that can greatly impact the future of the industry.

 

[Domain Shane]

That's not a very good logic to use here, not all of the domaining community was there in person, but they can still express an opinion about what they think was right or wrong.

Even if you are right about the conference, but for you to come here and use rude and unprofessional language yourself still puts you on the wrong side of things.

So lets agree that it's best for everyone to be more professional in their interactions with others in the domain community and Industry.

IMO

So you think its OK for people to comment on a traffic accident that they were neither there nor saw a video of what happened? That's what you are saying. How can someone possibly make an opinion without knowing the situation ?

I get the professionalism thing. Be we are on a forum, not having tea with the Queen

 

[ExploitOdds]

Bad wording. "many" not the. There are a lot of great people here. Of the top 10 escrow awards for most domain sales none of them participate here. That's more what I meant. You can save a copy but please save this one too. A ton of successful domain investors here

I am not a successful domainer, but that is my fault. Im also not a fan of GoDaddy because of the service I received on the phone when I first thought, domains lets give that a shot. Ironically some expiring domains I had at GD, I did transfer to Epik for my first experience with them the other day.

Just want to be clear where Im coming from!!

With regards to what was said above I think it is tricky. You chose the word THE instead of MANY. I think all of us need to operate with a certain level of decorum and grace with one another. Additionally, the English language is challenging for a reason. Rob and Shane are bad CEOs. Writing that it seems very black and white. Speaking it, there is tone and context to consider along with body language perhaps. Even still can anyone definitively conclude what I meant when I said they were bad CEOs?

I appreciate the candor in clearing up a misspeak. That takes balls to man up like that. So thank you for that.

As an aside, anyone think they can reach Dana White to see if Rob and Shane can work out their differences in the octagon? For charity of course!

Kinda feels like the democrats and republicans in the US.

 

[oldtimer]

So you think its OK for people to comment on a traffic accident that they were neither there nor saw a video of what happened? That's what you are saying. How can someone possibly make an opinion without knowing the situation ?

I get the professionalism thing. Be we are on a forum, not having tea with the Queen

There are over 300000 unique people from within and outside of the domain Industry that read NamePros and as one of the well known people in domaining I expect you to set the right example for everyone by promoting professional behavior and not the reverse even when you think you are right and everyone else is wrong.

IMO

 

[Domain Shane]

I am not a successful domainer, but that is my fault. Im also not a fan of GoDaddy because of the service I received on the phone when I first thought, domains lets give that a shot. Ironically some expiring domains I had at GD, I did transfer to Epik for my first experience with them the other day.

Just want to be clear where Im coming from!!

With regards to what was said above I think it is tricky. You chose the word THE instead of MANY. I think all of us need to operate with a certain level of decorum and grace with one another. Additionally, the English language is challenging for a reason. Rob and Shane are bad CEOs. Writing that it seems very black and white. Speaking it, there is tone and context to consider along with body language perhaps. Even still can anyone definitively conclude what I meant when I said they were bad CEOs?

I appreciate the candor in clearing up a misspeak. That takes balls to man up like that. So thank you for that.

As an aside, anyone think they can reach Dana White to see if Rob and Shane can work out their differences in the octagon? For charity of course!

Kinda feels like the democrats and republicans in the US.

Again my apologies. I wish everyone success. I have written about how excited I was for making enough money to pay my Internet. I represent the small investor on Domain Sherpa. I talk often about important small gains in this industry are to people that live in parts of the world where $1000 is life changing and to not treat $1000 profit like its nothing. I called out Rob because it offended many including myself. He may not have thought it was wrong but that does not take away from how people felt in that room and that is what I represent on this occasion. Nothing more.

 

[Domain Shane]

There are over 300000 unique people from within and outside of the domain Industry that read NamePros and as one of the well known people in domaining I expect you to set the right example for everyone by promoting professional behavior and not the reverse.

IMO

" I expect" Really? Please don't lecture me. I have a wife

 

[oldtimer]

" I expect" Really? Please don't lecture me. I have a wife

If you want to double down on your wrong and insulting attitude I guess that's your choice, but as I said I expected more from someone with your status and position.

IMO

 

[Domain Shane]

Well at least I live your quote in your avatar. I grow plants and have planted hundreds of thousands of trees and run a mission in Iten Africa. (Iten.run) I may not meet your couth requirements but at least I meet your lifestyle desires.

 

[branding]

Again my apologies. I wish everyone success. I have written about how excited I was for making enough money to pay my Internet. I represent the small investor on Domain Sherpa. I talk often about important small gains in this industry are to people that live in parts of the world where $1000 is life changing and to not treat $1000 profit like its nothing. I called out Rob because it offended many including myself. He may not have thought it was wrong but that does not take away from how people felt in that room and that is what I represent on this occasion. Nothing more.

I was trying to avoid further participation in this thread as contrary to what some may believe, threads like this do devide Namepros to some extent. It's unintentional (probably) but there's no point in ignoring that fact. If you read between the lines it's all over the place.

I hate it.

Now I got that off my chest , what if someone else would have been asking the same questions? Some random guy (with no affiliation to Epik) asking about if GD would ever concider implementing some features being offered by Epik? Would you concider that to be bad taste?

 

[Internet.Domains]

Again my apologies. I wish everyone success. I have written about how excited I was for making enough money to pay my Internet. I represent the small investor on Domain Sherpa. I talk often about important small gains in this industry are to people that live in parts of the world where $1000 is life changing and to not treat $1000 profit like its nothing. I called out Rob because it offended many including myself. He may not have thought it was wrong but that does not take away from how people felt in that room and that is what I represent on this occasion. Nothing more.

Nobody has done more, in recent memory, to help the "small" investor than Rob. Rob's actions have shown he helps the "small" investor, his words back it up. If you feel that you represent the "small" investor as well, why not build on that commonality? Don't continue to bicker on the differences. Build on the agreements.

I called out Rob because it offended many including myself.

Really, come on. Do we really have to be offended so easily? Speaking of offensive, you called Rob's question a "Dick move." You said this in regards to a company (Godaddy) that has very recently become pro-women's rights. If apologies go around you might owe both registrar CEO's an apology, Godaddy and Epik's. Please consider.

After apologies we can look forward to empowering all domain investors, even the "small" ones.

 

[Ategy]

is the typical domainer really "domain rich"?
and how can they be "cash poor" at same time?
and yet, their domains have tremendous wealth?
does the typical domainer really spend all their money on domains and have nothing left to survive on but a sale?
and if their domains had tremendous wealth, then wouldn't they or shouldn't have been able to sell some before this scenario came to be?

Let me tell you from experience .. personally this was the case for me.

About 3 years ago, I was about a year in to a small side import/export business with a partner. Very VERY small, we were learning and taking baby steps. Eventually my partner's father's best friend came to us with an opportunity (it was actually a favour to my partner's dad by helping us). He needed help for a very large order. So we went for it and I invested a large sum (mostly debt) and everything was going according to plan, but right at the time of delivery to the final company, that middle-man who got us the deal died, and everything turned to a disaster. Ended up being messed up and I not only suffered a huge loss, but on top of that the government was looking for significant amounts in taxes as well because they thought we were making money (most of the paperwork was lost because of the death overseas). Then in the summer of 2018 I got hit with my 5th flooding incident due to a hot water tank. Ultimately it was the one in the condo above mine that leaked very slowly and caused the connection of mine to rust and leak. So it ended up being a huge mess because it wasn't detected right away, and the blame game isn't even over yet (again, huge damages .. conflicts with neighbours, insurance etc). On top of that my "real world" (non-tech related) job of 23 years is finally taking a huge toll on my knees .. for the last year and a bit I've been on and off work, and aside from the start it's been mostly unpaid when I'm off (again .. insurance issues, etc). I have to face the fact I need (kneed) to find a new job .. but it's hard facing a transition like that when everything else is up in the air.

Thankfully domains is actually what has saved me from bankruptcy. I'm still in a big hole from that other business and all my other unexpected expenses .. but slowly (very slowly) crawling back up. Although I'm a grown man, I have both my parents telling me to stop spending money on renewals etc. .. lol. But then I tell them, if I didn't pay my renewals I wouldn't have made the money that saved me from bankruptcy. Last year I did spend $xx,xxx on acquisitions and renewals .. but I also made a safely higher $xx,xxx amount in sales. Because of my lack of income from work, I almost was a "full-time" domainer for a few months as I was living off my profits from domaining for a bit.

All that said .. we all know that domain sales are fairly random .. and while I made a noticeable profit with domains in 2019, I'm still in red overall in life because of outside non-domain issues (I still haven't received anything from my insurance from the flood, once I do, things will hopefully be less stressful). Or .. one or two moonshot sales would be enough to get me in a good place again where $$ is no longer an issue.

So yeah .. I'm happy with my portfolio ... despite my lack of getting optimally organised, it somehow made me a nice profit in 2019. As I get it more and more organised and get more of them listed on all the marketplaces things should get even better. On top of that obviously now more than 3 years into domaining my acquisitions are getting even better so the quality of my portfolio is going up (while my average annual unit cost goes down).

What's the point of all that? lol .. I think a good example of being domain rich and cash poor! We do exist! lol ... and I really wish there I had something like this available to me 1-2 years ago.


My actual plan was to wait for everything to stabilise, including reaching a certain level of domain sales, and then taking a sabbatical from work for a year to try to work full-time in domains (domaining + blog + maybe a job at one of the industry companies). Even now I'm interested how the loans work in the very possible case one day in the near future my knees are in too much pain at work that I'd need to just leave right then and there.

 

[oldtimer]

Well at least I live your quote in your avatar. I grow plants and have planted hundreds of thousands of trees and run a mission in Iten Africa. (Iten.run) I may not meet your couth requirements but at least I meet your lifestyle desires.

Believe it or not I have always thought of you as one of the most hard working people in the Industry, but all that could be overshadowed by just couple of wrong words, so you should set an example of professionalism the same way that you have set an example of being a hard worker and then what you are complaining about might come across better to the unbiased observers such as I.

IMO

 

[Ategy]

Isn't the industry standard wholesale rate of 1% of the reetail value?

No .. the general number usually mentioned is 10%. But the fact is every domain and portfolio is going to be very different. It always comes back to the man. 1% definitely would be correct in some cases .. while 20%+ could also be appropriate in other cases (higher value domains with higher sell-through potential like the one-word domains often discussed on Domain Sherpa).

The fact is that no single person in the world wants you to get up in a keynote speech and promote your own business. Have spme respect for the keynote speaker. It wasn't the time or the place to challenge the status quo or whatever you think you were doing.

I think it's possible you aren't entirely wrong.

 

[Ategy]

wait godaddys ceo is an Indian?! wheres bob parson?

Ironically Bob's done with killing Elephants/Lions in Africa .. he's now in India shooting cows!

 

[Ategy]

add: back to the subject...having a good valuation service (or aggregation) is essential to determine reasonable values for domain liquidity issues.

As far as automated sites giving values, nameworth should be included as a contender. Of course, nothing can beat the valuation of an experienced human...but like the other top valuators (godaddy and estibot) numbers can be generated that are unacceptably low or high. For the majority of my comparisons, nameworth is providing me more realistic retail numbers. I actually check all three and then do my own calculation using visitors, clicks and cpc. If there is a consensus on a number that lies within a +/-15% deviation, that is my price. (I also check namebio for recent reported sales)

Wow .. what sort of domains do you have? Because automated valuations are essentially useless when it comes to brandables.

I personally had domains I felt were worth high $x,xxx, that I sold for high $x,xxx .. which estibot showed essentially to be no value.

Don't get me wrong, I love Estibot for the stats and all of their other features (I'm a paying customer). And I don't even blame them for being wrong with brandables, simply because to me placing a consistently accurate valuation on most brandables via a basic algorithm (compared to a human brain) is just impossible.

There's no way a loan service could ever rely on a automated valuations as a basis on what to lend .. it would always need to be a human eye that assesses value (which in itself is lightyears away from being perfect, but still much better than automated).

 

[Mister Funsky]

Wow .. what sort of domains do you have? Because automated valuation are essentially useless when it comes to brandables.

I personally had domains I felt were worth high $x,xxx, that I sold for high $x,xxx .. which estibot showed essentially to be no value.

Don't get me wrong, I love Estibot for the stats and all of their other features (I'm a paying customer). And I don't even blame them for being wrong with brandables, simply because to me placing a consistently accurate valuation on most brandables via a basic algorithm (compared to a human brain) is just impossible.

There's no way a loan service could ever rely on a automated valuations as a basis on what to lend .. it would always need to be a human eye that assesses value (which in itself is lightyears away from being perfect, but still much better than automated).

I run the spectrum with names (emd, brandable, geo, 4L, etc.) and of course the bots wont be of much value on brandable and/or nonsensical names (however, nameworth was able to find decent value in a few of mine).

Sorry I didn't qualify some of what I said in case some brand new domainers are reading this...I certainly do not want anyone to avoid getting a good/great name because it shows no value in the automated systems.

To me godaddy is of value for estimating due to its vast data base...estibot is of value because of some of the data it uses, and shares, in arriving at its pricing...nameworth simply speaks to me in terms of tiers and because it is in line with many of my independent valuations...the 'shoot for the moon' top tier pricing is essential for anyone domaining to strive for.

Proper valuation, to me, is one of the if not THE hardest things to do in domaining. If someone survives the sink or swim period, there are plenty of names out there to be had...but is the pricing correct to allow for profit? I wrestle with a pricing battle, sometimes for hours, on a big purchase.

Domain values are very subjective and there are lots of variables...I agree that no automated system(s) can get the true value, but they can at least offer a starting point and/or minimum. Truth be told, the bots are the first thing I plug a name into unless it is clearly a valuable name...it is always a hoot to see what shows up!

 

[Ategy]

Proper valuation, to me, is one of the if not THE hardest things to do in domaining. If someone survives the sink or swim period, there are plenty of names out there to be had...but is the pricing correct to allow for profit? I wrestle with pricing battle, sometimes for hours, on a big purchase.

I couldn't agree with you more. In fact part of the reason why my portfolio is a not as optimised as it should be is because I initially grew my portfolio too fast on domains I knew were "good", but was still completely "paralysed" on how to price.

Oddly enough I find it much easier placing a price on other people's domains .. I guess what they say is true about not falling in love with your own domains .. it clouds your judgement! lol .. That being said .. after you get a few sales under your belt, it does get easier.

Unfortunately the fact remains that domaining is a very random game .. a domain might legitimately be worth 10k, but if the buyer can only genuinely afford $3k and stretches to $5k, then that's just a reality of the game and a decision you need to make. Then sometimes domains you would have priced at $2500, end up going for $7500! lol

Domain values are very subjective and there are lots of variables...I agree that no automated system(s) can get the true value, but they can at least offer a starting point and/or minimum. Truth be told, the bots are the first thing I plug a name into unless it is clearly a valuable name...it is always a hoot to see what shows up!

When it comes to pricing my own domains I completely ignore automated valuations.

However when I go through my own filtered list every day, while I place little importance on them, I will keep an eye out. Sometimes if it's an unexpected $0 valuation, there's a small chance I just didn't catch a typo domain. Conversely, when it's a much bigger number than expected, it means it's something I might want to check out in a bit more detail. It most certainly does not mean the higher number is accurate at all .. but it does turn my head.


ADDED: In fairness I haven't put my portfolio through NameWorth yet .. so maybe they are better?

ADDED #2: I just checked .. they're priced too high for me to even try.

 

[oldtimer]

what if someone else would have been asking the same questions? Some random guy (with no affiliation to Epik) asking about if GD would ever concider implementing some features being offered by Epik? Would you concider that to be bad taste?

That's a very valid question,

I have a few questions to ask myself, but out of fairness to everyone I am not going to direct them at just one CEO, but rather at all who set the tone and policies for the domain industry.

Why don't the registrars give the full 35 days to registrants to renew their domains without any additional penalties and costs. (like Fabulous.com does for example).

Is it okay for Registrars to be in competition with their own customers for their expiring domains and deprive them of adequate opportunity to renew their domains.

Why is it that I check a domain for availability either on Registrars websites or the Whois and a few days later I see that it is taken and put under domain privacy.

Why should Registries be allowed to impose an arbitrary tax on everyone by increasing the registration fees while the total number of registered domains keep increasing.

Why are people allowed to use their position for personal agendas and profits like it's being done at ICANN with .org

And the same old question as to what is being done by all the companies that are involved in the domain Industry towards empowerment and equally important towards protecting the public rights and interests.

And finally how and when is everyone going to implement new technologies such as AI to better serve and protect their customers.

IMO

 

[FlipperC]

Shane is a provocateur who fully knows that drama drives page views. In other words, I am less convinced by the virtue signaling. That said, I don't judge him.

Ha. Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?! You comments are more judgy than most.

You should maybe understnad what he is saying and turn the other cheek,. Some people dont like the vpn guy either b/c hes so promotional.

Nobody has done more, in recent memory, to help the "small" investor than Rob. Rob's actions have shown he helps the "small" investor, his words back it up.

Uh, how? Show us some examples with data. Otherwise your just one of the brainwashed.

 

[Rob Monster]

You comments are more judgy than most.

I would challenge that one. I actually judge nobody. PM me anytime to arrange a live call if you think otherwise as I remain open as always to hear from my critics, vocal and otherwise.

 

[Internet.Domains]

Uh, how? Show us some examples with data.

I could go down a long list of projects he has recently funded that not only helps the small domain investor, but also created opportunities for staff, both existing and new hires.

There are countless more than I listed.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/up...lanthropy-making-impact.1162664/#post-7483354

https://www.namepros.com/threads/hi...ct-managers-and-executive-leadership.1162639/

https://www.namepros.com/threads/do...m-seeking-input-for-new-epik-project.1166450/


https://www.namepros.com/threads/brand-name-testing-for-anonymous-smart-search-aggregator.1150560/

 

[Lox]

Twitter

(Whatever you’re trying to achieve... there’s a thin line between what's real and what's reality)

Regards

 

[Lox]

Btw. You’re important ... for a week ... the next important person is ... etc

 

[Domain Shane]

Show attachment 143919

Twitter

(Whatever you’re trying to achieve... there’s a thin line between what's real and what's reality)

Regards

I have no idea what that means but either way I think the conversation is going around in circles so I'll see myself out. Enjoy the rest of the conversation and thanks for listening.

 

[Rob Monster]

Show attachment 143919

Twitter

(Whatever you’re trying to achieve... there’s a thin line between what's real and what's reality)

Regards

Well, it explains the rising tide of anonymous votes for "This thread is stupid". Duly noted on the ballot stuffing operation. It is all good, We might get some new input in this thread.

However, contrary to Shane's apparent perception, this thread that was not set up to be some kind of judgement statement about Shane. I actually thanked him, even if I disagree with him.

So, recapping the theme of this thread for those who lost track:

1. Should registrars formalize the practice of extending loans to registrants. Some registrars already do it, but Godaddy apparently does not despite their massive balance sheet.

2. Should Godaddy uses its legal and related resources to influence the regulatory apparatus to make domains more bankable at conventional banks.

I initiated this post because I take issue with the character attack when in fact the question was entirely appropriate and aligned with Aman's Keynote about ... EMPOWERMENT.

 

[Domain Shane]

Btw. You’re important ... for a week ... the next important person is ... etc


Show attachment 143924

We're all important to someone

Btw. You’re important ... for a week ... the next important person is ... etc


Show attachment 143924

This is why I'm leaving the thread. Nothing constructive.