NameCheap.com

[NameVisual]

I own over 100 domain names at Namecheap,com and last year I issued a few charge backs that I tried to resolve with customer support. They are trying to charge me $200 per charge back and they attempted to hijack all my domain names.

I got them to unlock all my domain names that they tried to steal and they told me I couldn't use any of their services until I paid their ransom demand.

I thought it was resolved after I told them I was not paying their ransom and that charging for a charge back is very unethical.

In the last week, I starting receiving more threatening emails informing me to not use their service and after my domains expire, I would have to transfer them out. They didn't like my response to their threat so they are now saying I have to transfer all domain names out by tomorrow or they will once again hijack them from me.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Do I need to hire a domain name attorney?

Thank you.

 

[Name Trader]

I don't think it's silly at all, at least to me it's not. They are threatening to confiscate all of my property and that reminds me of communism.

I have not done anything illegal and I excised my legal right to issue a chargeback. It does not say anything in my banks TOS that if I exercise my legal right that I will be threatened, extorted and anything I purchased with that company will be confiscated.

Here you go again? Confiscate, communism, threatened, extorted. There is just no backing down with you. Even @MapleDots, you biggest supporter thinks, you have to pay for what you have done. But there is just no retreating with you. You may possibly do something against their ToS which is not illegal, but is against the ToS under which you are both operating under. Who is going to win that argument in court? Not you. Unfortunately.

 

[Name Trader]

The law of the land is we have the legal right, by Federal law, to issue a chargeback for our Federal regulated credit cards.

We have the right to exercise our rights without punishment.

You have reneged on a legal document which you have both agreed to. Who wins? The one who didn't renege on their ToS. IMHO.

 

[NameVisual]

You have reneged on a legal document which you have both agreed to. Who wins? The one who didn't renege on their ToS. IMHO.

I win, the one who exercised my legal right, by Federal law, to issue the chargeback. A service offered to me by a Federal regulated bank.

Where does it say in the law that I will be subjected to threats, extortion and have my property seized and confiscated if I use this Federal law?

 

[NameVisual]

Here you go again? Confiscate, communism, threatened, extorted. There is just no backing down with you. Even @MapleDots, you biggest supporter thinks, you have to pay for what you have done. But there is just no retreating with you. You may possibly do something against their ToS which is not illegal, but is against the ToS under which you are both operating under. Who is going to win that argument in court? Not you. Unfortunately.

You are right, there is no retreating with me. No, I won't back down, as the Tom Petty song says. I won't let anyone bully or threaten me when I have done nothing illegal and have not broken any laws of the land.

 

[Name Trader]

I win, the one who exercised my legal right, by Federal law, to issue the chargeback. A service offered to me by a Federal regulated bank.

Where does it say in the law that I will be subjected to threats, extortion and have my property seized and confiscated if I use this Federal law?

Where does it say that any registrar cannot add penalties, for you using a chargeback you have invoked against their services and ToS. You are free to use the chargeback serviced of your bank as much as you want. But you must also understand if you have harmed the supplier in any way by the exercise of your right to chargeback, you might be called to account, as in your case. There is no getting away from it. You agreed to their ToS as freely as you opened the chargeback with your bank. I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of my imagination, but you are entitled to chargeback with you bank. But you have agreed to hold the registrar harmless from any damages from your breach of their ToS. They are two related but completely separate transactions.

That's enough of this buffoonery. From me. I've said my piece, more than one, and you have too. So let it go. I'm not going to reply to any more provocation from you on your case with NameCheap.

 

[Name Trader]

You are right, there is no retreating with me. No, I won't back down, as the Tom Petty song says. I won't let anyone bully or threaten me when I have done nothing illegal and have not broken any laws of the land.

mmm... mmm... mmm...

 

[NameVisual]

Where does it say that any registrar cannot add penalties, for you using a chargeback you have invoked against their services and ToS. You are free to use the chargeback serviced of your bank as much as you want. But you must also understand if you have harmed the supplier in any way by the exercise of your right to chargeback, you might be called to account, as in your case. There is no getting away from it. You agreed to their ToS as freely as you opened the chargeback with your bank. I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of my imagination, but you are entitled to chargeback with you bank. But you have agreed to hold the registrar harmless from any damages from your breach of their ToS. They are two related but completely separate transactions.

That's enough of this buffoonery. From me. I've said my piece, more than one, and you have too. So let it go. I'm not going to reply to any more provocation from you on your case with NameCheap.

Thank you @stub, I appreciate all your opinions and help with my situation with Namecheap.

 

[Name Trader]

Thank you @stub, I appreciate all your opinions and help with my situation with Namecheap.

Thanks. I appreciate that we can discuss things openly and remain domainers-in-arms against injustice.

 

[MapleDots]

OK. I get you don't want to answer my points individually.

HeHe..... Sorry was skiing today and locked into my mobile phone. Those little buttons make typing a bit difficult.

I really don't have much more to add that has not already been said by you or the OP.

I think it's an unfortunate situation all the way around but a great topic to have on namePros so everyone can learn the consequences of a chargeback and how it might affect their relationship with their registrar.

 

[anantj]

I win, the one who exercised my legal right, by Federal law, to issue the chargeback. A service offered to me by a Federal regulated bank.

Where does it say in the law that I will be subjected to threats, extortion and have my property seized and confiscated if I use this Federal law?

Please provide citation for this law of the land? Further, also the clause that states that a service provider/merchant cannot recoup their losses due to chargebacks as they are also penalized due to chargebacks! Unless it is explictly forbidden by the law, merchants can AND should try to recoup the losses incurred by them due to illegitimate (in t his case and this is my opinion) chargebacks.

Anyway, as you've stated, you're not willing to consider any other viewpoint on this matter. I'm pretty sure you're not a lawyer (nor am I) so I suggest that you consult an actual lawyer before stating with such confidence that Namecheap are in the wrong. In fact, I *feel* that you know you are wrong else you would have retained a lawyer and initiated legal action against Namecheap. If you are so certain that Namecheap is extorting you, you will win the case and corresponding damages as well. So the cost should not really be an issue. Why not go ahead? I wholly encourage you to sue NC ( )

 

[Kate]

I can't see what NC has done wrong.
BTW other registrars will do the exact same thing in the same situation.
Chargebacks are a last recourse step, not a convenience option for one's own mistakes (and entitlement mentality). Any domainer knows that filing a chargeback is a sure way to nuke your account, what did you expect ?

You use strong words like steal, hijack, unethical, threatening but what you did deserves one of these adjectives.

You should think for a minute about how much you value your relationship with NC. Maybe like so many domainers, you don't have any particular loyalty toward registrars, think they are expandable but the relationship goes both ways. From the POV of businesses, some clients are not worth the hassle. There are certain types of clients that they are not interested in retaining. Some of us are business owners with merchant accounts, and would do the same to protect our interests.

Also remember that NC is a discount registrar, they operate on thin margins. Whatever profit they made on your purchases can be quickly offset by the bank fees, clerical work and administrative overhead resulting from your actions.

Finally, you have to understand they are reasoning in terms of risk related to your personal customer profile. They now regard you as a high-risk customer, and businesses don't want to deal with unpredictable customers like you, you know people who might make big purchases one day, pull them out and then charge back everything.

What you did was wrong, unless you are willing to tone a bit and make things right, I think they should terminate their relationship with you. Nothing personal, it's business. And as they said:

As an option, you may contact your bank with a request to cancel the chargebacks and we will consider reducing the fee further.

Personally, this is what I would do, contact the bank, try to undo the chargebacks to minimize if not nullify the damage. This is a good faith gesture that can buy you some time and possibly salvage your user account (and deescalate the dispute).

I hope you did not post this to get sympathy from other domainers ?

 

[NameVisual]

Please provide citation for this law of the land? Further, also the clause that states that a service provider/merchant cannot recoup their losses due to chargebacks as they are also penalized due to chargebacks! Unless it is explictly forbidden by the law, merchants can AND should try to recoup the losses incurred by them due to illegitimate (in t his case and this is my opinion) chargebacks.

Anyway, as you've stated, you're not willing to consider any other viewpoint on this matter. I'm pretty sure you're not a lawyer (nor am I) so I suggest that you consult an actual lawyer before stating with such confidence that Namecheap are in the wrong. In fact, I *feel* that you know you are wrong else you would have retained a lawyer and initiated legal action against Namecheap. If you are so certain that Namecheap is extorting you, you will win the case and corresponding damages as well. So the cost should not really be an issue. Why not go ahead? I wholly encourage you to sue NC ( )

Since this is an ongoing issue with Namecheap, I am not going to reveal everything here. However, the domain names that have nothing to do with the chargebacks can not be seized and confiscated.

I posted this thread because I will always consider other viewpoints and I appreciate yours and everyone elses.

Namecheap already locked all of my domains last year and they choked and unlocked all of them because they know that hijacking and reselling all of my internet property assets would be a very bad business practice and, they would lose in a Federal court.

Currently, there is no Federal law that prevents a company from trying to recover their losses but at the same time, it is very unethical and a bad business practice. And there is no Federal law that states that consumers have to pay a company for fee's that a bank charges them. The company accepted the TOS for the banks credit card merchant service so they have agreed to being charged for a chargeback.

Regardless if it was right or wrong for me to issue a chargeback, the current issue is that they are threatening, harassing and extorting me for using an option by my credit card company.

 

[Kate]

Namecheap already locked all of my domains last year

Why ?

 

[NameVisual]

Why ?

For chargebacks that are not related to 99% of the domains that they locked.

 

[NameVisual]

So, I have a few .pro names and I can't unlock them to transfer for "technical reasons".

 

[NameVisual]

I can't see what NC has done wrong.
BTW other registrars will do the exact same thing in the same situation.
Chargebacks are a last recourse step, not a convenience option for one's own mistakes (and entitlement mentality). Any domainer knows that filing a chargeback is a sure way to nuke your account, what did you expect ?

You use strong words like steal, hijack, unethical, threatening but what you did deserves one of these adjectives.

You should think for a minute about how much you value your relationship with NC. Maybe like so many domainers, you don't have any particular loyalty toward registrars, think they are expandable but the relationship goes both ways. From the POV of businesses, some clients are not worth the hassle. There are certain types of clients that they are not interested in retaining. Some of us are business owners with merchant accounts, and would do the same to protect our interests.

Also remember that NC is a discount registrar, they operate on thin margins. Whatever profit they made on your purchases can be quickly offset by the bank fees, clerical work and administrative overhead resulting from your actions.

Finally, you have to understand they are reasoning in terms of risk related to your personal customer profile. They now regard you as a high-risk customer, and businesses don't want to deal with unpredictable customers like you, you know people who might make big purchases one day, pull them out and then charge back everything.

What you did was wrong, unless you are willing to tone a bit and make things right, I think they should terminate their relationship with you. Nothing personal, it's business. And as they said:
Personally, this is what I would do, contact the bank, try to undo the chargebacks to minimize if not nullify the damage. This is a good faith gesture that can buy you some time and possibly salvage your user account (and deescalate the dispute).

I hope you did not post this to get sympathy from other domainers ?

Thank you for your opinion. However, I disagree that I am wrong because then the Federal law that allows us to issue a chargeback would be wrong.

I also tried with customer support to get a refund and they refused so I then told them I would issue a chargeback. They said "go ahead". At that time, I was not aware of how serious the consequences of a chargeback are to a company but they were and still told me to "go ahead".

 

[Kate]

So you have a history of chargebacks, interesting.
But no you can't do a chargeback just because you made a mistake or regret a purchase. You could as a last resort if you were defrauded, or bought a defective product or for non-performance of service involving a merchant not acting in good faith. This is not the scenario here.
Saying that you exercised an 'option' because you disagree with their no-refund policy makes no sense. It's no different than cancelling a bank check.

Now will you be contacting your bank and try to lift those chargebacks ?

 

[NameVisual]

So you have a history of chargebacks, interesting.
But no you can't do a chargeback just because you made a mistake or regret a purchase. You could as a last resort if you were defrauded, or bought a defective product or for non-performance of service involving a merchant not acting in good faith. This is not the scenario here.
Saying that you exercised an 'option' because you disagree with their no-refund policy makes no sense. It's no different than cancelling a bank check.

Now will you be contacting your bank and try to lift those chargebacks ?

No, I don't have a history of chargebacks.

Where does it say I can't do a chargeback for a mistake or regret?

Namecheap told me to "go ahead" and submit the chargeback after I made efforts to resolve the issue with them.

No, I will not be contacting my bank because this was 6 months ago so it's too late. I don't know why Namecheap would ask me to lift the chargeback after they told me to "go ahead" and submit them.

 

[Name Trader]

I hope you did not post this to get sympathy from other domainers ?

I'm not sure. Maybe NameVisual can answer this. I think he posted here to practice and strengthen his arguments against NameCheap. Trying to find out what might fly and what won't. He does admit to being stubborn though. Even when he's wrong I don't think there has been any meaningful dialog from him to NameCheap before he made these chargebacks. Just saying "No, I won't pay any money to you hijackers and ransomers. I'm going to make these chargebacks." is not meaningful dialog, in the context of the dispute. He doesn't see from his PoV that he has done anything wrong. But there is overwhelming evidence that he is in the wrong. We will see on the 19th Feb whether NameCheap will stick to their word this time. I think they have been way to generous with him. IMHO. He gives a bad reputation to all domainers. It's exactly because of people like this that Registrars have and need these strong chargeback policies.

 

[NameVisual]

I'm not sure. Maybe NameVisual can answer this. I think he posted here to practice and strengthen his arguments against NameCheap. Trying to find out what might fly and what won't. He does admit to being stubborn though. Even when he's wrong I don't think there has been any meaningful dialog from him to NameCheap before he made these chargebacks. Just saying "No, I won't pay any money to you hijackers and ransomers. I'm going to make these chargebacks." is not meaningful dialog, in the context of the dispute. He doesn't see from his PoV that he has done anything wrong. But there is overwhelming evidence that he is in the wrong. We will see on the 19th Feb whether NameCheap will stick to their word this time. I think they have been way to generous with him. IMHO. He gives a bad reputation to all domainers. It's exactly because of people like this that Registrars have and need these strong chargeback policies.

I'm a little disappointed in this post @stub. What happened to domainers united in arms? Oh well.

Seriously, I don't need sympathy from anyone and I don't know why anyone would think that. I was just hoping to get some opinions and intelligent conversation, that's all.

@stub, I laughed when I read your quote "No, I won't pay any money to you hijackers and ransomers. I'm going to make these chargebacks." Although it's funny, it's not how it went down before the chargebacks. After the chargebacks when they began to threaten me, yes it was a little like your quote but not so direct.

Honestly, I really don't see where I did anything wrong here since there is no law that states that a chargeback is unethical. As I said before, I made sincere efforts to resolve the issue and it would have been very easy for Namecheap to do so but, they didn't.

Anyways, thanks again everyone for your opinions even though they are judgmental towards me but that's okay, no hard feelings. I will continue to stand up and protect what is mine and never let anyone push me around so if that is being stubborn then that's what I am.

Peace!

 

[BrandPlease]

This is not directed as I disagree with the OP - haven't read and processed all the details. This is an FYI on charge-backs, hope it give a little info.

Charge-backs are a terrible thing to do, if not 100% warranted. The cost to the merchant is high - but that is only the beginning. The rules, regs, and fees associated with charge-backs are especially bad on "digital goods".

The CC companies like to adjust rates and fees based on the transactions, charge-backs = raised rates = raised rates on everything, for everyone.

Now, when needed, YES, thats why they exist. But, be assured - in the US anyway - you dont have to rush to a charge-back, you are really protected on credit card purchases. Try to work with the merchant.

FYI - NEVER USE DEBIT CARDS if possible - they do not have the same protections as credit cards.

 

[Kate]

I'm a little disappointed in this post @stub. What happened to domainers united in arms? Oh well.

You may have noticed there are other threads, where domainers are siding with each other, when it's clear the registrar is in the wrong.

Please don't take it personally, you seem like a nice person.
But I am going to say something that other people must be thinking now. Exposing your problems in a thread like this is counter-productive, because now members will have reservations dealing with you. What is at stake now is not just your relationship with NC but your reputation in the domaining community.
If you wanted to buy a domain from me and pay with paypal or a credit card, I would decline because I know there is a risk of chargeback due to buyer's remorse. I am not sure I would want to engage as a buyer either.

Honestly, I really don't see where I did anything wrong here since there is no law that states that a chargeback is unethical.

Doing a chargeback without a legitimate reason is not unethical but downright fraudulent. Again, keep in mind some of us have merchant accounts and can easily relate to the other party (NC).

As I said before, I made sincere efforts to resolve the issue and it would have been very easy for Namecheap to do so but, they didn't.

That is ? Unless you do something that could tangibly minimize their financial loss, it's just talk. Sweet words do not alleviate the problem.

Of course there is a problem. You are not even admitting you owe them money. You pulled the rug from under their feet just because you could, and felt entitled. So I think the discussion is leading to nowhere.

 

[NameVisual]

You may have noticed there are other threads, where domainers are siding with each other, when it's clear the registrar is in the wrong.

Please don't take it personally, you seem like a nice person.
But I am going to say something that other people must be thinking now. Exposing your problems in a thread like this is counter-productive, because now members will have reservations dealing with you. What is at stake now is not just your relationship with NC but your reputation in the domaining community.
If you wanted to buy a domain from me and pay with paypal or a credit card, I would decline because I know there is a risk of chargeback due to buyer's remorse. I am not sure I would want to engage as a buyer either.

Doing a chargeback without a legitimate reason is not unethical but downright fraudulent. Again, keep in mind some of us have merchant accounts and can easily relate to the other party (NC).

That is ? Unless you do something that could tangibly minimize their financial loss, it's just talk. Sweet words do not alleviate the problem.

Of course there is a problem. You are not even admitting you owe them money. You pulled the rug from under their feet just because you could, and felt entitled. So I think the discussion is leading to nowhere.

You have judged me all wrong. I did not purchase a domain name and then just submit a chargeback so you are way off. This was a renewal of something in which I thought was free.

Yes, I made a mistake of not reading the entire fine print and the entire TOS, that's obvious.
After the charges went on my credit card, I made sincere efforts to get a refund because there were a lot of renewals all at once so I was not expecting a bunch of whois gaurd charges (my mistake) because I thought they were free.

I have never made any purchase from any company with the intention of submitting a chargeback because that would definitely be fraud. I feel I made a lot effort to resolve this with customer support billing and they didn't want to do anything. Of course, they didn't have too but they could have just taken "the customer is always right" business practice instead of acting like they didn't care that they racked up my credit card with charges I could not pay. After all, it is my credit card, not theirs, even though I over looked the fine print, it would have been nice if they gave me a refund.

I feel you are being very judgmental by saying I am damaging my reputation in the domaining community and assuming that I am out to submit chargebacks to companies just "because I can" as you said. I have never felt "entitled" to do any chargeback as you have assumed, but I feel that Namecheap feels "entitled" to keep my money after requesting a refund and explaining to them that I did not have the money to pay for all the who is gaurd charges.

Anyways, maybe I am not perfect enough for this community since you said "now members will have reservations dealing with you". So be it. I really don't need to be judged and have assumptions put on me because I asked for some input. I wasn't expecting to be condemned by you. Thanks. Have a great day!

 

[NameVisual]

 

[anantj]

Since this is an ongoing issue with Namecheap, I am not going to reveal everything here. However, the domain names that have nothing to do with the chargebacks can not be seized and confiscated.

Can and should are two very different terms. Can? Yes. Should? In this case, actually yes. You are acting exceptionally entitled for a mistake you made and are unwilling to admit to. As a business owner, they suffered a loss and you want them to eat it up. Why?

I posted this thread because I will always consider other viewpoints and I appreciate yours and everyone elses.

You say this but it does not seem to come across that you actually appreciate or even try to understand other's viewpoints. I'm not trying to be harsh but that's just the feeling that I get.

Namecheap already locked all of my domains last year and they choked and unlocked all of them because they know that hijacking and reselling all of my internet property assets would be a very bad business practice and, they would lose in a Federal court.

I literally dare you to try to file a case against them in a federal court. I'm not a lawyer but even I have the basic understand that they'd win... Why make empty threats? Why not actually sue them?

Currently, there is no Federal law that prevents a company from trying to recover their losses but at the same time, it is very unethical and a bad business practice

Wait. I actually can't believe that you just said that. So it is unethical for someone to recover their losses? Isn't that literally what you're doing as well? So it is unethical and bad business practice for you to be doing the same. Right?

And there is no Federal law that states that consumers have to pay a company for fee's that a bank charges them. The company accepted the TOS for the banks credit card merchant service so they have agreed to being charged for a chargeback.

So a business has to abide by the ToS of the Bank but a customer (you) does not need to abide by the ToS of the business? Not sure I understand how you even come to that conclusion.

Regardless if it was right or wrong for me to issue a chargeback, the current issue is that they are threatening, harassing and extorting me for using an option by my credit card company.

Didn't you threaten them with a chargeback (that you eventually did act upon)? So again, it is fine for you to threaten a business but the reverse is not true? That's highly hypocritical of you.