Epik announces Escrow service

[GoWebnames.com]

Saw this in my facebook feed today: http://www.epik.com/services/escrow/

Can they be trusted?
Any recent EPIK (of INTRUST infamy) service experience to share?

 

[GoWebnames.com]

I rarely post on NamePros, but I did want to comment here in order to clarify some points that folks have made in this thread.

Epik started out in 2009 as a mass developer of domains, believing in the merits of domain names as an asset class but being further convinced of the need to add value to the domains. We initially did this only for our own portfolio and got good at building out high quality template-based sites, notably using exact match domains.

In early 2010, Epik made this platform available to other domain investors. The Product Portals were particularly popular and sold like hotcakes. The September 2010 Epik Developer Conference was a high profile event that brought hundreds of domain developers to Seattle and further raised the profile of domain development.

In late 2010, Google released the Panda update of their search engine. The impact on exact match domains was immediate. The results were devastating for anyone involved in mass domain development, including Epik. Individual template sites that earned hundreds of dollars per day were now earning $1 per day, or less.

As a courtesy to our customers who built sites on Epik, we did provide refunds, paying out the difference between their amount invested and their amount earned. These customers were allowed to continue to make use of their Epik sites. Many still do to this day, and are making money from them. This was by any standard an honorable approach.

Rather than wait out Google, Epik made a strategic pivot. Epik acquired Intrust Domains’ registrar operations in July 2011. It was actually a great buy, which provided a top engineering team with which we were able to jump-start what has become a full-service registrar platform with a solid reputation and many happy and loyal clients.

The one downside of acquiring Intrust’s registrar is the confusion of the brand Intrust. In fact, Epik neither bought the Intrust brand, nor the dropcatching business for which they were known. That legacy business went on to become Goname, which has since ceased operations as a dropcatcher and is winding down as far as I understand it.

As for domain appraisals, it is still a free service. We recently put it behind a login screen because some idiot using Russian IP addresses was crawling the service at the rate of 100,000+ queries per hour. Since this data is not free for us, we had no choice but to introduce a daily quota of 100. If someone needs more, they can ask. It is still free.

As for dropcatching, although we do offer a first-come-first-serve dropcatching service Epik is not a large player in this market. It has become a hyper-competitive market, particularly for the best domains. To add reach, we did historically make use of registrar connections that were not exclusively ours but improved catch rate of second tier names.

As for escrow services, we provide this as a courtesy for customers. Over the years, we have completed many large transactions with little or no fee. Escrow is not a core business. As registrar, we have the advantage of being able to secure the domain for the protection of both buyer and seller. I consider this a huge advantage over escrow.com.

As for Masterbucks, this is actually a useful thing. Proceeds from domain sales are deposited commission-free and tax-free into a Masterbucks account. Proceeds can be spent on Epik. Alternatively, proceeds can be redeemed to PayPal, eCheck, paper check or wire transfer, net of payment processing fees which are never more than 5%.

As for our Leasing Platform, it is frankly awesome. If you are not plugged into this capability, I advise you to check it out. I am pretty sure we power more leasing transactions than anyone in the industry. We also provide domain marketplaces for anyone who wants to feature only their own inventory on their own private label marketplace powered by Epik. This is good stuff.

At the end of the day, Epik is building what I call the Swiss Bank of Domains. Epik is relatively boutique-sized but growing rapidly (+88% for first 9 months of 2015). We provide world-class service on a state of the art domain management platform. We are staffed with some of the friendliest support personnel, none of him whom are on commission.

As for @RogueWriter, I thank you for your kind words, as some people in the domain industry know, I am a Bible-believing Christian, actively involved in ministry. Regardless of anyone’s personal theological beliefs, or lack thereof, be assured that all of the people who work at Epik apply the “Do unto others” acid test to everything we do.

Finally, Epik will be exhibiting at the NamesCon conference this coming January. We are looking forward to a great show. It will be my pleasure and honor to sit down with anyone who wants to know more about Epik, or to discuss domains, entrepreneurship, theology, life, etc. If someone needs to reach me sooner, my personal email is [email protected], my cellphone is 425-765-0077 and my Skype is robertmonster.

I give you all my best wishes for a good start to the Holiday Season!

That seems like quite an honest explanation Rob and I feel convinced to believe you.

If you could have come out earlier to make this clarification about the ever mysterious Epik+Intrust connection, you could have saved your firm much mistrust all this time. People are also aware of INTRUST angle to Goname.

Just few more points to understand here:

1) Whether EPIK only acquired the registrar business of INTRUST, you don't have any employees of INTRUST transferred to EPIK?
2) Whether INTRUST (now goname whatever) holds any equity/ business interest in EPIK at all?
3) Why would you provide a FREE ESCROW via Masterbucks?
4) Can you share some data (volume / sizing metrics) on the recent transactions completed through EPIK ESCROW and MASTERBUCKS !!?

Thanks

 

[Rob Monster]

@21x29 - The supported methods of sending and receiving funds to/from Epik for an escrow transaction are:

Credit Card
PayPal
ACH
Wire
Bitcoin
Paper check
Western Union

If the seller chooses to use funds within Epik, there is no fee. The proceeds are deposited to the seller's Epik balance without fee. If funds are disbursed, then the fee depends on the transaction size and the payment method that was used. It is never more than 5%. For a wire transaction, it is 1.5%, and can be even lower for a large transaction.

For smaller transactions, e.g. under $2500, most folks will simply use our domain marketplace. In this case, the domain is on Epik registrar. The buyer is able to then purchase (or lease) the domain from our marketplace at which time (1) the domain instantly moves to the buyer's Epik account, and (2) the proceed from the sale are instantly deposited to the seller's Masterbucks account. Once funds are deposited, these funds are instantly available for use from within the Epik account without fee.

Specific to China transactions, our marketplace is busy with China transactions all day long. The interface does have a Chinese language version and support is 24/7. We are looking to add Chinese native staff in the next few months, or potentially a China-based acquisition. In the meantime, we have had no problem processing marketplace and escrow transactions for Chinese customers. If someone needs something special, they should contact us to discuss.

Since I also received other questions via email, I will go ahead and address those here as well:

Why does Epik offer this service?
We have offered this service as a convenience for customers for years now. We have done some fairly exotic transactions, combining payment methods, structuring payments, splitting disbursements, bundling domains and websites, etc. Many people who come to us have reported that Escrow.com was not flexible, too slow, or unable to process an escrow transaction in the manner that buyer or seller needed.

What is the benefit for Epik to complete an escrow transaction or marketplace sale without a fee?
The main benefit for Epik is that it is what in marketing language is called a "Point of entry". When a domain owner sells a domain to a new end-user, we gain a new (retail) client. Since domain investors generally get everything from Epik at or near cost, our margins have to come from serving end-users, typically through a bundle of services such as domain, hosting, development, SSL certs, etc.

Why can buyer and seller trust Epik?
Escrow transactions are fundamentally a trust issue, so it is a fair question. After all, both buyer and seller are depositing assets with a 3rd party intermediary who will facilitate a fair exchange. To date, I have personally coordinated all of our escrow transactions, managing the dialog with buyer and seller, providing assurance and clarification where needed. We get it done.

What about Purchase and Sale Agreement?
Most escrow transactions don't require one. However, to the extent that a legal agreement is needed, beyond Epik's standard terms, we provide templates which can be used as needed. If a custom agreement is needed, we can prepare one. Though I am not an attorney, I believe most would advise that for large transactions, e.g. $100K+ a purchase and sale agreement is advisable.

Does Epik disclose sales via escrow or marketplace?
We rarely do. In fact, the branding language of "The Swiss Bank of Domains" and "Legendary Support" were both cases of customers coming up with the language. In the process of time, we simply adopted those terms, and then have worked hard to operate in a way that aligns to the promises made in that branding. There are some great testimonials here. On a related, WHOIS privacy is always free at Epik.

Are there transactions that you don't do?
We are generally not the market-maker to choose when buying or selling adult domains. We know nothing about the market for those domains and prefer not to do them, and generally drop them. I am happy to discuss the reasons for this one on one with anyone who needs to understand the reason. If you check out our daily diamonds list of names being dropped, you will often find traffic names there. It is a reverse auction, running for 24 hours. The prices drop to as low as $19.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you need more.

 

[Rob Monster]

Just few more points to understand here:

1) Whether EPIK only acquired the registrar business of INTRUST, you don't have any employees of INTRUST transferred to EPIK?
2) Whether INTRUST (now goname whatever) holds any equity/ business interest in EPIK at all?
3) Why would you provide a FREE ESCROW via Masterbucks?
4) Can you share some data (volume / sizing metrics) on the recent transactions completed through EPIK ESCROW and MASTERBUCKS !!?

1) Intrust Personnel who came to Epik: Jessica and Sarah both came from Intrust/Goname. As anyone knows who deals with Jessica and Sarah, they are both doing great work in client services. They will be on hand at NamesCon, where Epik will exhibit in January. Denis Markov consulted for Epik for about 5 months after Goname ceased dropcatching operations. Denis is a dropcatching expert and a very capable network engineer. In 2011, Epik took over most of the Intrust development team in Eastern Europe.

2) Intrust Ownership of Epik: Intrust Domains LLC owns 0.87% of Epik. These shares were issued as part of the consideration to acquire Intrust's registrar operations in 2011. No other assets were acquired in that deal. Intrust does not have any Board representation and have never had any. This asset purchase was done with Kenn Palm in 2011. Kenn has since left the domain industry altogether. I am still in contact with Kenn as I am a reference for his IT Consulting Business, Pilgrim Consulting.

For questions 3 and 4, please see my reply for @21x29 from earlier today. To that, I will add one anecdotal example of a recent transaction that we did that I think is illustrative of the work we do. A large Epik client, who splits his time between Florida and a Caribbean island, has a 7-letter, 2-word domain name. This registrant's asking price was $200,000. The buyer, an Israeli company, was not prepared to purchase it at that price. As a solution, we set up a lease for $500 per month, with a $200,000 purchase option. At the buyer's request, there is an escrow agreement already in place with Epik for the purchase option. In the meantime, the seller is collecting monthly lease payments on a fully automated basis with 100% of those funds going into the Epik account of the lessor/seller each month. The buyer is able to use the domain from their Epik account on a 24/7 basis. During the lease term, the lessee is unable to change the WHOIS or access the auth code. There is an agreement governing acceptable use of the domain. There was a trademark filing that was filed for the domain SLD with the registrant's authorization.

As you can see from the above example, this type of transaction requires a consultative approach, involving dozens of emails, multiple conference calls, and drafting of documents. There are not a lot of domain industry providers that are able to bring together all of the required components, which in this case were: (1) Advisor, (2) Registrar, (3) Escrow agent, and (4) all purpose "Herder of cats".

 

[Shams]

@21x29 - The supported methods of sending and receiving funds to/from Epik for an escrow transaction are:

Credit Card
PayPal
ACH
Wire
Bitcoin
Paper check
Western Union

If the seller chooses to use funds within Epik, there is no fee. The proceeds are deposited to the seller's Epik balance without fee. If funds are disbursed, then the fee depends on the transaction size and the payment method that was used. It is never more than 5%. For a wire transaction, it is 1.5%, and can be even lower for a large transaction.

For smaller transactions, e.g. under $2500, most folks will simply use our domain marketplace. In this case, the domain is on Epik registrar. The buyer is able to then purchase (or lease) the domain from our marketplace at which time (1) the domain instantly moves to the buyer's Epik account, and (2) the proceed from the sale are instantly deposited to the seller's Masterbucks account. Once funds are deposited, these funds are instantly available for use from within the Epik account without fee.

Specific to China transactions, our marketplace is busy with China transactions all day long. The interface does have a Chinese language version and support is 24/7. We are looking to add Chinese native staff in the next few months, or potentially a China-based acquisition. In the meantime, we have had no problem processing marketplace and escrow transactions for Chinese customers. If someone needs something special, they should contact us to discuss.

Since I also received other questions via email, I will go ahead and address those here as well:

Why does Epik offer this service?
We have offered this service as a convenience for customers for years now. We have done some fairly exotic transactions, combining payment methods, structuring payments, splitting disbursements, bundling domains and websites, etc. Many people who come to us have reported that Escrow.com was not flexible, too slow, or unable to process an escrow transaction in the manner that buyer or seller needed.

What is the benefit for Epik to complete an escrow transaction or marketplace sale without a fee?
The main benefit for Epik is that it is what in marketing language is called a "Point of entry". When a domain owner sells a domain to a new end-user, we gain a new (retail) client. Since domain investors generally get everything from Epik at or near cost, our margins have to come from serving end-users, typically through a bundle of services such as domain, hosting, development, SSL certs, etc.

Why can buyer and seller trust Epik?
Escrow transactions are fundamentally a trust issue, so it is a fair question. After all, both buyer and seller are depositing assets with a 3rd party intermediary who will facilitate a fair exchange. To date, I have personally coordinated all of our escrow transactions, managing the dialog with buyer and seller, providing assurance and clarification where needed. We get it done.

What about Purchase and Sale Agreement?
Most escrow transactions don't require one. However, to the extent that a legal agreement is needed, beyond Epik's standard terms, we provide templates which can be used as needed. If a custom agreement is needed, we can prepare one. Though I am not an attorney, I believe most would advise that for large transactions, e.g. $100K+ a purchase and sale agreement is advisable.

Does Epik disclose sales via escrow or marketplace?
We rarely do. In fact, the branding language of "The Swiss Bank of Domains" and "Legendary Support" were both cases of customers coming up with the language. In the process of time, we simply adopted those terms, and then have worked hard to operate in a way that aligns to the promises made in that branding. There are some great testimonials here. On a related, WHOIS privacy is always free at Epik.

Are there transactions that you don't do?
We are generally not the market-maker to choose when buying or selling adult domains. We know nothing about the market for those domains and prefer not to do them, and generally drop them. I am happy to discuss the reasons for this one on one with anyone who needs to understand the reason. If you check out our daily diamonds list of names being dropped, you will often find traffic names there. It is a reverse auction, running for 24 hours. The prices drop to as low as $19.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you need more.

Thanks Rob for answering our questions. that's all we want to know.

 

[MarketingArchi]

will give it a try.

 

[domainbartender]

Is there an option to use the escrow services as a broker? Buyer sends payment, seller pushes domain and the payment is then divided to send a partial payment to seller and a partial payment to broker?

 

[Rob Monster]

@domainbartender - We have done lots of exotic escrow transactions, with mixed currencies, multiple payment sources, staggered distributions, brokerage reserve distribution, etc. If you can describe the terms, and all parties can agree to them, I am pretty sure we can manage a cost-effective escrow process that matches the agreed structure. Feel free to email me at [email protected], or skype to robertmonster.

 

[domainbartender]

Ok thank you!

 

[alcy]

can I withdraw sale money from masterbucks to my paypal (canada)? if so, what is the fee for it? you said there is a fee.

can buyer also pay you using paypal?

I also wanted to know what happens in case there are payment problems after buyers gets domain. godaddy auctions and escrow.com guarantee the funds and eat the loss if ever there is something like buyer chargeback after domain is already in buyers possession. do you also offer this kind of gauranteed seller protection like they do or not?

thanks!

 

[Rob Monster]

@alcy

Domains sold in our Marketplace are deposited tax-free and commission-free into the user's corresponding Masterbucks account. If funds are withdrawn, including to PayPal Canada, the commission is 5% of gross.

A buyer can use PayPal.

As for payment fraud and chargebacks, if a transaction is high risk, there may be a short delay in disbursing proceeds. Epik guarantees a transaction. If there is fraud by a buyer, we pursue the buyer.

There is a 60-day transfer lock for domain purchases, but the domain can be pushed. That said, we enforce the minimum of what ICANN allows when it comes to transfers in/out of Epik.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

If funds are withdrawn, including to PayPal Canada, the commission is 5% of gross.

Rob, this spring you said me that escrow-disbursement via International Wire Transfer is $40.
So $40 only
OR
5% + $40?

 

[Rob Monster]

@Jurgen - Add the wire fee, yes. PayPal, ACH and check are all no-fee.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

So if the domain is with other registrar - then overall commission for me will be 1.5% + 5% + $40, I understand correctly?
In this case escrow.com and Sedo's escrow are significantly cheaper.

 

[alcy]

@alcy

Domains sold in our Marketplace are deposited tax-free and commission-free into the user's corresponding Masterbucks account. If funds are withdrawn, including to PayPal Canada, the commission is 5% of gross.

A buyer can use PayPal.

As for payment fraud and chargebacks, if a transaction is high risk, there may be a short delay in disbursing proceeds. Epik guarantees a transaction. If there is fraud by a buyer, we pursue the buyer.

There is a 60-day transfer lock for domain purchases, but the domain can be pushed. That said, we enforce the minimum of what ICANN allows when it comes to transfers in/out of Epik.

ok thanks! for this Rob!

its nice to see you guarantee the payments like escrow.com.. godaddy etc..
not all escrow services do!

however, if there are problems for you after payment (chargebacks etc), I fear you may have no point in suing buyer from your end. no more thna the seller does when buyer files chargeback. so I am afraid you would need to be eating up those costs from yoru own pocket with no chance to recover them.... then again, if domain resides on epik, and becomes locked after you give it to buyer, if there are problems with payment witin 60 days, you can at least recover the domain back, given its on your own property registrar. maybe this is what you are counting on then in case of "having to sue the buyer". so more power to you if you have luxury to offer yourself this extra layer of proection!

thank you again and I am definitely going to try your service for my next sale!
the fees are very competitive!

if per chance in future you want consider adding some sort of onsite account section for each member with ongoing and done escrow sales, maybe that'd be nice.

thank you

 

[alcy]

So if the domain is with other registrar - then overall commission for me will be 1.5% + 5% + $40, I understand correctly?
In this case escrow.com and Sedo's escrow are significantly cheaper.

hmmm... I think fees are alright no?
I tought sedo charges full price 15% 20% for escrow.. like for an auction sale with them no?

escrow.com is a diffeent story (to me) cause it does not payout in paypal.
and I am not interested in service that does not payout in paypal.

I guess to avoid the 1.5% fee with epik you can jjust transfer domain to epik first? its like $8.
make sense?

 

[ET76]

hmmm... I think fees are alright no?
I tought sedo charges full price 15% 20% for escrow.. like for an auction sale with them no?

I think what @Jurgen Wolf mean is Sedo External Transfer service which only 3% of fees. 10%-15% if we use their marketplace platform.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Yes, 3% or min. $60 for Sedo's escrow only.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

10%-15% if we use their marketplace platform.

And 20% if incoming bid is via their MLS...

 

[alcy]

ok ty for info on sedo
i read some bad things about them
but the fee is good
people say they are not true escrow etc.
plus I pretty much dislike everything else about sedo (like their min $60 sale fee)
so I think I personally prefer to pay 2% more for epik!

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Regarding Sedo's wire fee - I waste no more than $20 when transferring funds from their German bank to my Ukrainian bank...

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Sedo's escrow is the most TRUE escrow for many years...
They have accounts with all popular registrars... and the domain can be easily pushed into their escrow-account and that's all.

Escrow.com for the same comfort charges an additional fee (so-called "concierge").

 

[alcy]

Sedo's escrow is the most TRUE escrow for many years...
They have accounts with all popular registrars... and the domain can be easily pushed into their escrow-account and that's all.

Escrow.com for the same comfort charges an additional fee (so-called "concierge").

ah ok
I see. I heard somehwere one of escrows is not a true escorw.. or maybe even several services are not true escrows.. I thought sedo was one of them. but thnaks for info.
maybe they meant moniker.. or flippa.. or some other.

either way.. I'd have used escrow.com cause its cheapest I think and most popular around... sadly, they don't pay out in paypal. which I find ridiculous for the most popular escrow around.

so unfortunately I will not use them.

I opened epik account couple days ago.. so I'l give them a try for a pending transaction I have with buyer.. and he wanted to pay with credit card using paypal (in fact, he wants to use two visa gift cards with some balance on each to finance this) so I do not want to take chargeback risk. so I'll use epik escrow for it.

I am okay with paypal direct as long as buyer can prove he pays using paypal balance only. (screenshots and calling paypal to verify payment)... then no chance of chargeback.

I'll keep posted how it goes with my first epik deal.

 

[korganian]

I just withdrew $1,825 from my Epik Masterbucks account yesterday. I received $1,733.75 into my Paypal account. Notice that the difference was just 5%, not 5% plus 3% Paypal fee. So the real cost of receiving those funds was really only the difference between 5% and the 3% Paypal would have charged me if a buyer had paid me by Paypal. So the net cost to me was really only 2% more than a typical Paypal transaction.

Do you guys know anywhere else that handles your domain sales and provides secure escrow service and takes on the risk of the transaction where you end up getting 98% of what you would have gotten from a direct unprotected Paypal payment from the buyer? I don't.

Also, I have a separate login for my Masterbucks account that keeps an easily viewed record of all my domain sales and withdrawals I've ever done through Epik .

I left half my domain sales proceeds in my Masterbucks account because I have most of my entire domain portfolio at Epik and I can renew my domains at only $8.10 that includes the ICANN fee. That way I can use 100% of those sales proceeds because there is no fee at all from my sales proceeds when I use the money to register, renew or transfer domains into my Epik account. In fact, my Masterbucks balance shows up in my shopping cart as an available form of payment, just like Paypal does. It could not possibly be any easier or more cost effective than paying absolutely nothing to sell my domains with secure escrow provided and have instant access to my funds.

 

[alcy]

I just withdrew $1,825 from my Epik Masterbucks account yesterday. I received $1,733.75 into my Paypal account. Notice that the difference was just 5%, not 5% plus 3% Paypal fee. So the real cost of receiving those funds was really only the difference between 5% and the 3% Paypal would have charged me if a buyer had paid me by Paypal. So the net cost to me was really only 2% more than a typical Paypal transaction.

Do you guys know anywhere else that handles your domain sales and provides secure escrow service and takes on the risk of the transaction where you end up getting 98% of what you would have gotten from a direct unprotected Paypal payment from the buyer? I don't.

Also, I have a separate login for my Masterbucks account that keeps an easily viewed record of all my domain sales and withdrawals I've ever done through Epik .

I left half my domain sales proceeds in my Masterbucks account because I have most of my entire domain portfolio at Epik and I can renew my domains at only $8.10 that includes the ICANN fee. That way I can use 100% of those sales proceeds because there is no fee at all from my sales proceeds when I use the money to register, renew or transfer domains into my Epik account. In fact, my Masterbucks balance shows up in my shopping cart as an available form of payment, just like Paypal does. It could not possibly be any easier or more cost effective than paying absolutely nothing to sell my domains with secure escrow provided and have instant access to my funds.

thats a real nice review.
thanks for taking time
it makes me feel comfortable before starting my transaction now.

and in fact, what is to you a 2% difference, will for me become a 1% difference only because when I Receive a USD$ domain payment directly into paypal from someone from usa.. it is international and therefore charged 3.9%.. I am in canada you see.

so for my deal with this buyer, I'd be taken away by paypal 4%!
and now it'll be 5%

so this is really a very small difference. sounds like Epik may just be the escrow service I have been looking for! shame on escrow.com for not taking time to setup paypal payouts (again I am in canada).

just a quick question.. so if my domain is now at non epik registgrar.. I presume you recommend I transfer it to epik before escrow yes? this saves me 1.5% extra fee.. and I assume makes the whole process way more smooth.. as its all jjust epik controling and pushing domains within their own system

tnx for reviewing your experience.

 

[GoKaizen]

You can request Epik $8.10 .com transfer/renewal/registration pricing.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/8-...transfers-renewals.982029/page-2#post-5832751