Youtube.net

[fleaking]

My friend owns the domain name Youtube.net, he is a newbie in the industry and is getting sued by Youtube.com right now, so he asked me for help today.

he doesn't park Youtube.net, instead, he uses it as the web address of an affiliate website selling weight-loss products.

Is this considered as a bad faith?
I have no idea on it because I never registered a domain name like this (I like only generic ones)...
can anyone please give a suggestion to my friend,
thanks!

 

[labrocca]

Hmm...I don't think asking for a few hundred is out of the question. Yeah it's risky but consider a few things. The lawyers on their side will cost them hundreds per HOUR. A UDRP will cost at least $2000-$3000 for them.

Also consider this...did the .net owner make good money while owning the domain? If he did then just pass it on to Youtube.com and chalk it up to a wash.

Read my thread about what I did when I got a C&D for a clear name violation.

And DNQ is right...the usage of the .NET has really screwed you. If you had built a site with actual usage DIFFERENT than .com you could have kept it possibly. Instead he is squatting.


Also 1 other thing...I see you are in Taiwan...is your friend also in Taiwan? If so then he has very good chance of simply asking them for money. The Taiwan legal system for intellectual property is a joke. I would be willing to bet that for $500-$1000 Youtube.com would rather avoid additional legal actions. Asking for $10k imho is very greedy and risky. You have to always ask BELOW what a UDRP might cost them...and enough below they feel it's worth it. Normally that's $500-$1000 depending on the company and it's lawyers.

Yeah I know DNQ and I are gonna disagree on this. Remember that neither of us are lawyers and with any legal action there is 2 sides. Consider DNQ and I those sides.

 

[Damion]

...You have to always ask BELOW what a UDRP might cost them...and enough below they feel it's worth it. Normally that's $500-$1000 depending on the company and it's lawyers.
...

Can these amounts not just be claimed to be refunded from the defendant once the case has been won?
Or is this legally not possible?

I mean that is the procedure right?
When someone looses a case the loosing party must refund the lawyer fees and other related costs right?

So the loosing can potentially owe a lot of money then.

 

[DNQuest.com]

There are 2 issues here, legal, and reality...

Legally, you are squatting, we all know this.

reality - your friend may be able to get money becuase it is easier than going through the whole UDRP process. But what you don't know is how the lawyers are going to react. There is more than just monetary losses here, there is also reputation. If you are labeled a cybersquatter and only lose the domain with no monetary loss. Any future disputes, your record can be used against you, thus losing credibility. This could be weighed against you when a panelist judges character.

Where Labrocca and I usuallly disagree is in the legal/reality arguement. We present both sides and it is up to you to weigh the risk/reward factor.

Can these amounts not just be claimed to be refunded from the defendant once the case has been won?
Or is this legally not possible?

I mean that is the procedure right?
When someone looses a case the loosing party must refund the lawyer fees and other related costs right?

So the loosing can potentially owe a lot of money then.

In UDRP, there is no monetary awards. It is just who gets the domain and that's it. But if the complainant wins, they can pursue legal action and seek damages along with legal fees, and if they go that far, look for the Lanham Act to be invoked which is a $100.000.00 fine for occurance. This does not happen often, bu if it does, be prepared to go to the poor house.

 

[labrocca]

And DNQ...whois does show this as registered in Taiwan. Honestly...I wish I lived there. I could own TM domains without fear of legal issues. The chances that youtube will pursue anything more than a UDRP is so low I would bet $1000 on it.

You can bet your life they will UDRP though if you don't resolve this with them. I am sure a $500-$1000 asking price from them won't break their budget.

Legally, you are squatting, we all know this.

Legally he is in Taiwan...do you really know the laws there? They are sketchy at best.

 

[DNQuest.com]

Actually. jurisdiction is the US, it is where the registry is located.

I have already acknowledged the reality of the situation

 

[gdtechindia]

sell it to me :D, i may be intrested in fighting a case with youtube

 

[labrocca]

Actually. jurisdiction is the US, it is where the registry is located.

I have already acknowledged the reality of the situation

U.S. Courts can't enforce lawsuits in Taiwan. They wouldn't even bother to sue him. Sure...they COULD...and if he ever moved to the USA they could take his assets...probability of this is 1 million to 1.

 

[DN Tycoon]

Tell your friend to make a video about this whole situation offering Youtube.com the domain name for $10,000 and then putting it on Youtube, Myspace and others. The only way to fair fight a powerhouse is to expose it to the public. Trust me they want to keep this all on the down low...make a video and call some news stations and spread the word...YouTube will buy the domain name from you rather than look like a big bully in the eyes of their users. - goodluck

 

[Badger]

Well, my initial thoughts on this were - a deal, fair to all parties, would seem reachable.

However, some big Co's sometimes dont want to deal out of principal and prefer the WIPO route as a strong message to other would be squatters.

And, as an additional sidenote, DO NOT offer this domain for sale to youtube as this, in itself, can be seen as an example of bad faith and an abusive registration... Even replying to an enquiry can be deemed so. Remember, the guys that own YouTube are all ex-paypal execs, so they know their onions.

My advice, seek an internet lawyer to respond on your behalf (if you want to sell). Otherwise take the pocket change offer and hand it over.

 

[Damion]

In UDRP, there is no monetary awards. It is just who gets the domain and that's it. But if the complainant wins, they can pursue legal action and seek damages along with legal fees, and if they go that far, look for the Lanham Act to be invoked which is a $100.000.00 fine for occurance. This does not happen often, bu if it does, be prepared to go to the poor house.

Auch, that is a hefty penalty.

And DNQ...whois does show this as registered in Taiwan. Honestly...I wish I lived there. I could own TM domains without fear of legal issues. The chances that youtube will pursue anything more than a UDRP is so low I would bet $1000 on it.

Some sort of incorporation structure would possibly be an option and you won't even have to live there.

 

[binaryman]

I notice the .info/.biz/.org/.co.uk/.us and all the 20 or so European country extensions are also all taken for youtube. See here:
http://www.eurodns.com/search/index.php

Are they also being forced to hand over their domains?

 

[Damion]

Who knows Fred ...maybe in time they will.

 

[DNQuest.com]

U.S. Courts can't enforce lawsuits in Taiwan. They wouldn't even bother to sue him. Sure...they COULD...and if he ever moved to the USA they could take his assets...probability of this is 1 million to 1.

Labrocca, I really like that word "assets".. I brought this up in another thread. Would you consider domains an asset? If so, that "asset" is located in the US, why couldn't someone who was awarded a US judgement go after an asset located in the US the defendant owns?

I think I will start a thread on this just out of curiosity sake.

http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?p=1407365#post1407365

 

[labrocca]

Oh DNQ...he can surely lose the domain in a heartbeat. I think eventually he will anyways so imho he has very little to lose by telling them $500 for it. That's nothing to youtube to get the .net of their name.

Someone mentioned that offering the name for a price to them will show bad faith. Sorry but he is already using the domain in bad faith so that point is moot.

Anyways...it will be interesting too hear what he does and how youtube responds.

 

[stuart_domains]

Do not hand over the domain name until there final ultimatum, make them spend loads on lawyers etc.

At the final ultimatum offer them a solution, saying that you are suffering from stress and anxiety due to there letters and say to put an end to the nightmare situation, you will sell the site to them for $6000(this is roughly the amount it would cost to take take you to court)

Good Luck.

 

[000]

I really don't see any way that he can win the case. He is already using the domain in bad faith, so in any court he would lose. That leaves the options of (1) asking them $500 or whatever for the domain, and (2) handing over the domain and taking the loss. Seriously, I see no reason to risk asking $500 for it, when there's a chance that it would simply cause more problems.

I guess that it's just a matter of pride from here on, since YouTube.com has every right to the domain, and your friend is just trying to cash in on his mistake of buying/using the domain in the first place. Either he just breaks down and gives the domain to the "rightful" owner, or he causes more problems by asking them to pay for it (which may lead to a legal battle).

Just my 2 cents, it really seems pretty clear-cut to me. Then again, I'm one who likes to avoid the legal system as much as possible.

 

[DropLister]

Id park it and by the time court rolls around hell have made a good amount anyways

 

[Billy!]

youtube.com - Created: 2005-02-14
youtube.net - Created: 2005-08-14

Exactly 6months different. You are basically screwed.

Robert

Its amazing how YouTube.com has taken just over one year to get so big!

 

[Woodcs82]

get a lawyer.

 

[labrocca]

get a lawyer.

Waste of money....it's almost better to be the little innocent guy.