Your reason for the fame of IE...!

[thomaslgates]

I kno there are many browsers used all over the world..!
I jus wanna kno which browser you use and I thought this is the right place to survey.!

One more question.!

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE REASON FOR MORE USAGE OF I.E than any other BROWSER???

Thank you!.:

 

[Rowan W]

Chris, I mean a safe browser as in - no one's going to bother exploiting it, because after all, there will be so few users, and those users should be smart enough to know how to avoid exploits. Who want's to exploit an uncommon browser where most of its users come from technical backgrounds?

You've linked me to that secunia site so many times that I know what it's called now :s . I know Firefox isn't the most secure browser, I know. So stop telling me. At the moment Firefox users don't get spyware, viruses or adware (as far as I know). As long as there isn't too much of a market for Firefox, it will continue to not get nasty things.

I'll let you know when I'm exploited using Firefox.

btw, you're story about the network problem is completely off topic. And FYI, I've even used someone elses internet access before, because their wireless still had the default password. Anything can be hacked, you just need a good incentive to hack it, not that I do any hacking.

p.s. I was born in 85.

 

[ChrisKL]

Wow. An open wifi hotspot is an “exploit”? I always though it was a convenience. Guess I had better update my website to inform the people I'm providing this “exploit” to

[Note to all growing boys: a woman isn't interested in size, but finesse].

Hotspot from a trunk of a car? He was getting into their home computers to show me how easy it was, and in one, even their router settings, just by opening up his laptop (and he can do it legally, with tools not available to the public (forensic level). Do you have such tools? No. So don't even go there).

And I hope they don't use Firefox to visit it, because then if they accept a malformed cookie from a site on a ccTLD then someone else from a different ccTLD could read that cookie. Oooohhh! Scary!

BTW, I don't use WiFi, let alone FF.

The sky is falling!
The WLAO (Worlds Leading Alarmist Organization) recently announced that you can catch bird flu from using Thunderbird

Have a problem with computer security? How about checking your computer, about.....right now.

:evil grin:

And to answer the original question, according to the US District Court in UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. MICROSOFT CORPORATION, it was illegal and anti-competitive business practices.

No, it's called a company that was losing the browser war and tried to use the courts as a way to level the playing field. Any competitor wants a level one, so they don't have to WORK, yet gain the same perks as the forerunner (who often has to pour serious money in R+D and marketing, which the competition doesn't want to spend).

CKL

I know Firefox isn't the most secure browser, I know. So stop telling me. At the moment Firefox users don't get spyware, viruses or adware (as far as I know). As long as there isn't too much of a market for Firefox, it will continue to not get nasty things.

I'm telling you, Rowan, because you're passing off wrong information -- like above: Firefox does get spyware, viruses and adware.

Want more links (a quick search will find it)?

Standards? (someone else sees the light at the end of the tunnel):

Fire Firefox!
http://www.rage3d.com/board/printthread.php?t=33808154

Caleb Mar 14, 2005 04:06 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is actually not true atall. None of the browsers you see on the market today hold the standard. So saying that IE is a bad boy and FF is teh sh!t on standards is just wrong. Besides, standards are fine but who sets them? Even w3c are just reccomadations. And there have been internal disputes in w3c lately, and a new group has broken off from w3c advocating other standards.


It is no wonder that browsermakers are at their witts end. But as I said... painting a picture of FF as the great standard upholder is just plain wrong.

FF simply has to allow deviations from the standard because nearly all webpages deviate from the standard.

Viruses:

My First Firefox Virus:
http://www.techimo.com/forum/t131257.html

Adware:

German version of Firfox has adware installed:
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121138

Firefox catching and loading malware to Internet Explorer:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewt...tdays=0&postorder=asc&postsperpage=15&start=0

That's just with a short look.

If folks just would step back and look at the whole painting, they'll see that the hype comes from a small group who wants to claim Firefox is superior (it isn't any better than IE, just offers something different -- both browsers do the same thing, serve web pages).

And yes I figured you were younger, Rowan, because of your passion to fight an issue that keeps repeating from generation to generation. Just change the company name. It gets old after awhile.

CKL

 

[Rowan W]

Standards? (someone else sees the light at the end of the tunnel):

Fire Firefox!
http://www.rage3d.com/board/printthread.php?t=33808154

Uhm, the original poster of that thread didn't realise the page had 109 errors, according to the first person who replied. Can you explain the real reason you linked to this please? I must have missed something...

Viruses:

My First Firefox Virus:
http://www.techimo.com/forum/t131257.html

While I understand Firefox downloaded a virus, it's still important to note that:
1. "I suspect it occured while I had my popup stopper disabled."
2. "All I had to do was delete my Firefox cache to get rid of the bugger."
3. This was a known IE virus.


Actually this reminds me of something that happened to me recently. I had been browsing a cracks website with Firefox and a while later when I opened IE there was a new toolbar :o. I thought it was actually rather funny because Firefox was still fine. In other words Firefox wasn't exploited, IE was. Of course it may have been installed after I clicked on one of those "download" buttons.

Adware:

German version of Firfox has adware installed:
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121138

This one's very strange, considering there's no exploitation involved here. I would like to read more about this but I don't know any German. Apparently this was implemented by Mozilla, I don't think anyone knows why. But at least my version is still fine.

Firefox catching and loading malware to Internet Explorer:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewt...tdays=0&postorder=asc&postsperpage=15&start=0

This looks like the most serious issue I've seen so far, but in the end it was IE that was exploited and caused the poor guy to have so much trouble. Maybe if the popups came from Firefox you would have a point. Also, do you think IE would have stopped this IE-targeted virus if he were using IE instead?

(both browsers do the same thing, serve web pages).

With plenty of rendering differences, unfortunately.

p.s. Yes, web development is my passion, and I'll discuss it and everything it concerns until there's nothing else to discuss. Browser security doesn't concern me geatly though, I know how to avoid mal-ware.

 

[ChrisKL]

Rowan: you're skirting the issue.

1. Read the whole thread (there's a reason for a link).

2. There's a reason I copied and pasted that guy's post, and put in bold a sentence about W3C. Go back and read it again.

3. Same applies to IE users -- many of the reasons why viruses/adware/mal-ware gets on a computer is due to user error. Which doesn't mean Firefox will be immuned from it -- because your "Get Firefox" campaign is going to attract the same people that will cause the same problems, and Firefox is going to have the exact same problems IE faces now.

4. Use Babelfish to translate it. I could get my MS relative to translate it if he has time (he's German, and a v-e-r-y technocratic one).

5. Rendering differences due to different browser design -- which MS or FF can do. W3C only issues guidelines, not the law.

6. Web development is a constantly changing field. Take AJAX (which is the rage now). Why is it a hit? It got a name change (the technology has been around since the late 1990's, and by MS). It has it's benefits, but it does some bad junk (like making the back button useless, and eats through system memory -- why if you goto Google maps you'll notice 30+MBs is goobled up). Now if that's the brand of "standards" you like, have it. The rest of the folks who know the difference will get on in life (like doing practical stuff that follows Occam's Razor, and doesn't rob your system of resources).

CKL

 

[peter phillips]

I think IE is popular because many newbies aware of IE and not any other browser. Also IE is the only browser mostly available with new computers. You may need to download other browsers which many people don't do and stay with IE.

I personally use Firefox and i prefer to use it over IE because its has some key features like pop up blocker, tabs browsing, good download speed and a superior user interface.

 

[sunken]

I'm a creature of habit, so I still use IE for the most part, though I have Firefox and Netscape loaded on here for testing purposes. I'm not a newbie, been online since the net started and I'm aware of the security issues, but honestly, I'd rather deal with them (which I really haven't had any issues of that nature) and be comfortable with what I am using. I tried Firefox for a week and gave it my best effort to appreciate it's finer points, but in the end, I like simple. IE does what it's supposed to do. I am not into gadgets like tab viewing (drove me crazy) and all this other stuff. So until I can get Firefox to work like IE in what I'm used to, I will stick with IE, despite the security problems that may arise.

 

[Shorty]

@Rowan: My work will be viewable soon, but I don't fancy posting all my coding on a webdev forum.

It's basically just CSS not keeping the tables as neat as it should with border-width etc etc. I've gone through every single damn property and just can't get rid of it.

@sunken: I'm just like you in that respect. I'll admit that FF's tabular thing is handy when you're operating a big project and need all the room you can get, but it's confusing when you've used IE for years and automatically go to press ALT + TAB or click on the taskbar.

 

[wicked_gal00]

I am not into gadgets like tab viewing (drove me crazy) and all this other stuff.

I've been using Firefox since it came out, and for a while I wasn't using tabs either. I was used to the old way of just havnig 4 or 5 open windows, and it didn't really bother me. But after I got used to it, I find that it makes things a lot easier.

But anyways, I think a clean installation of Firefox (no extentions, etc) is pretty much as clean and simple as you can get. Anything else you add-on if and when you need it. Granted, Firefox is not perfect, but I'm not looking back. (Well, I'll see how IE7 is, I guess)

 

[shadow_boi]

so many people who are anti- IE are here. lol

 

[leviathon]

Someone actually picked Opera and Netscape? I REALLY don't see why. It's like a VERY old version of IE, and IE seem like an old version of Mozilla

 

[Rowan W]

And there have been internal disputes in w3c lately, and a new group has broken off from w3c advocating other standards

I over looked this because there was nothing to back it up. I did my own research and this is all I could find that seemed related - http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-982574.html

It's merely 'disputing', which every company goes through, just because they don't all agree on the same thing doesn't mean web standards are in trouble.

Next time link to something more 'concrete', thanks.

 

[steadler]

i use IE and FF, i find them useful for different reasons :P

 

[Kate]

Personally I use Opera for surfing. If you don't know why then I guess it's because you never tried it
It's a fact that software from Redmond is often riddled with bugs and security issues. It stems from poor coding habits and commercial constraints too (always in a rush to kill the competition and conquer the market...). ie must be the worst 'software' I've seen to date in this regard.
So far more than 200 bugs and serious security issues. Users have had more than their fair share of problems with it. Still want to use it ? Unless you are unaware I believe it's asking for trouble.
Another issue with ie is that they have tried to root it deeply in windows (some people did not like it and routinely uninstalled it). The consequence is that if ie is compromised then your operating system is compromised as well so a bug can be more damaging. No software is perfect but some are crap for sure :p

 

[ThreeD]

well, if IE was not actually shipped with windows its market share would be much lower.

Bingo! I for one used Netscape Navigator 1.0 gold edition before IE even was bundled with MS and I switched over to IE. IE is only as popular as it is because Microsoft made it a part of the Windows operating system.

However, I've been using Opera and FF for a couple of years now, the best switch I ever made. IE is too buggy and not very secure!

 

[primacomputer]

Hotspot from a trunk of a car? He was getting into their home computers to show me how easy it was, and in one, even their router settings, just by opening up his laptop (and he can do it legally, with tools not available to the public (forensic level). Do you have such tools? No. So don't even go there).

What a load of alarmist bunk. There are people out there sneaking into peoples wireless network from the trunk if their car using “tools not available to the public”. Boo! This doesn't jive with your earlier statement. Are we at risk from open wifi hotspots or are we at risk from people using super secret squirrel “tools not available to the public” from the trunk of their cars? Perhaps both. After all, the sky IS falling.

Also, what tools allow you to “legally” get into peoples home computers? Where are the laws that grant their users immunity? Let me guess. They're “not available to the public” either.

Your right. I certainly don't have any of these non-existent super secret tools. I just use the ones that are “available to the public” and do the same things, like Airopeek, Ethereal, Kismet, Airsnort, etc.

[Note to all growing boys: a woman isn't interested in size, but finesse].

Looks like this girl is impressed by guys who take her war driving in the trunk of their car and tell her tall tales about what elYte hax0rs they are.

Next time someone invites you for a drive take care you don't get taken for a ride

Have a problem with computer security? How about checking your computer, about.....right now.

:evil grin:

wwwwwwooooooooooo!
Were I the kind of person who was easily impressed by the awesome skill required to connect to an open WIFI network and log into a router using the default password I'd probably be shaking in my boots right now. But since I'm someone with 25 years of network security experience who's run open wireless hotspots for several years without any problem I'll just chuckle at how totally paranoid someone can be made by a geek trying to show off.

security exploits...Viruses...Adware

Your so called evidence doesn't support your claims. You post a link to a discussion about a firefox installing malware, but it turns out it's actually a java problem. You point to proof of a “firefox virus” and it turns out to be someone who's virus scanner found the HTML delivery mechanism for a virus (that only works in IE) in his firefox cache where it was stored after FAILING to install any virus. You point to a list of unacceptable firefox exploits, but it turns out they are insignificant.

In short, you haven't provided a single shred of evidence to show firefox is insecure. If anything it shows that firefox is more secure. Have you actually read the conclusions reached in the discussions you linked to or just scanned the subject?

 

[ChrisKL]

I over looked this because there was nothing to back it up. I did my own research and this is all I could find that seemed related - http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-982574.html

It's merely 'disputing', which every company goes through, just because they don't all agree on the same thing doesn't mean web standards are in trouble.

Next time link to something more 'concrete', thanks.

Do some more digging, Rowan (and use more than Google).

While you at it, have some more fun reading...

http://msn-cnet.com.com/Group+builds+onto+wall+of+Web+standards/2100-1023_3-802022.html?tag=mainstry

CKL

Your so called evidence doesn't support your claims.

Stop yapping, and prove it.

I at least provided the links so folks can see it themselves, without the propaganda (or hype).

What do you bring to the table other than hot air?

CKL

 

[SquireQuack]

I prefer Firefox but I keep IE for some purposes...

I just went to a site that says they only allow IE browsers...;;

 

[primacomputer]

Stop yapping, and prove it.

I at least provided the links so folks can see it themselves, without the propaganda (or hype).

What do you bring to the table other than hot air?

CKL

Prove what? I am simply doing what you say you want done. You provided the links so that folks can see for themselves. I have visited them and seen for my self. They do not support your claim that firefox is insecure.

In the discussion you referenced about malware it turned out to be a problem with Java, not firefox.
In the discussion you referenced about a firefox virus it turned out no virus was downloaded.
The list of unfixed bugs you referenced showed nothing of significance unpatched.

I'm not trying to prove anything. I just call bullshit when I see it. If you were posting links and falsely claiming that they proved IE was insecure I'd be calling bullshit just the same.

I also don't believe you provided the links so that people could “see for themselves”. I think you just googled for “firefox insecure” and picked some links that looked like they would support your argument. Had you actually read the content you wouldn't have used them.

 

[ChrisKL]

Prima, step back r-e-a-l slowly. Take a look at the painting this time from the whole perspective.

Now what do you see?

CKL

 

[Rowan W]

Prima, step back r-e-a-l slowly. Take a look at the painting this time from the whole perspective.

Now what do you see?

CKL

A whole lot of opinions and no beef.

 

[primacomputer]

In the big picture I see just another “my browser is better than your browser” thread.

One, which is certainly lacking in beef.

 

[Ray]

netscape shouldnt be on that list because it is completly powered by firefox

 

[Kate]

Thought it was the reverse. NS et FF are both based on the Mozilla core.
BTW I find it hard to to understand the FF frenzy because it basically looks like the Netscape that had already been for years... perhaps FF is more customizable or so.

 

[sunken]

Personally I use Opera for surfing. If you don't know why then I guess it's because you never tried it
It's a fact that software from Redmond is often riddled with bugs and security issues. It stems from poor coding habits and commercial constraints too (always in a rush to kill the competition and conquer the market...). ie must be the worst 'software' I've seen to date in this regard.
So far more than 200 bugs and serious security issues. Users have had more than their fair share of problems with it. Still want to use it ? Unless you are unaware I believe it's asking for trouble

To be honest, it appears to me as if the tech industry has set their sights on the evil M$ and basically heralds, while ignoring many things, anything that might compete with them. The idea that other browsers are "safer" comes more from the hype and the fact that they are not scrutinized for every little design flaw every minute than it does with reliable coding. If and when you see these browsers take a significant market share, the hackers will find just as many loopholes in their code. The question is how fast will these get fixed and updated?

No computer is safe on the internet at a whole range of levels, most of which have little to do with the browser. Common sense and some basic security precautions can curb a lot of it.

I may be asking for trouble, but I really haven't gotten into any in using IE in the past, so I fail to see the reason to switch to something I find very annoying on a day to day basis in order to supposedly be safer.

 

[unknowngiver]

I kinda hate IE
my ie is full of spywares and stuff
i run 10 anti spywares and open IE and it still freezes my pc duno y..so i will go to firefox